IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #2

[cluciano63]

One way or another no matter who is guilty, there has to be a car involved and I am hoping they get videos that show the various cars in the area at 4am...there should not be that many...either someone in a car grabbed her, or someone needed to use their car to dispose of her.

 

[bessie]

What does the code of conduct say about allowing a possibly intoxicated girl to walk home alone, in the early hours of the morning, without shoes, wallet, keys or cell phone?

If CR, MB, and JR are not JW's frat brothers, then the same code of conduct would not apply. The code of common decency would, imo.
On the other hand, some have said it is not uncommon for female students to walk around the area unescorted at all time times of the day and night. And we can't be sure how far Lauren persisted in her determination to leave on her own.

Something that I read but have not been able to verify that I think is very significant is the issue of JR's relationship to JW. Were they in the same Frat or otherwise "close" friends? Also, CR and MB were not Frat brothers or otherwise friends of JW but CR was a friend of JR. Are these relationships accurate?

The relationship between these men (all POI's apparently) is significant in a number of ways. It is definitely against any male or Frat "Code of honor" to "mess” with a friend or "brother's" girlfriend. Because of that, however, it might not be so bad for a girl to "hang out" at the apt of a friend or "brother" of her boyfriend (as long a nothing sexual goes on". It would definitely be consistent with the "code" to intervene if they saw a friend or "brother’s" girl with another guy. The "intervention" would be directed at the guy, not the girl.

If a guy and a girl are having "problems", the "code" would dictate that others Stay Out of IT unless it became violent. I have never heard of a male being recruited to "deal" with a cheating wife or girlfriend ("dealing" with the guy might be OK but never the girl). The issue of "covering" for a friend or "brother" is not so clear. In the early days of this case, it is entirely possible that some lies were told to police. These "lies" may have been motivated by concern for their own or their friends "reputation" or covering for minor crimes or infidelities. Lying to the police during a murder investigation is very bad form but they may not have realized what was going on.

We can't be sure what is "known" and what is still being sorted out by LE but I believe that if all statements and "evidence" were basically consistent and credible from the get go, this investigation would have been directed at a "stranger abduction" on College after she had left JR's apt a 4:30. The fact that the focus of the investigation still seems to center on her "circle of friends" suggests that there were some serious inconsistencies in the evidence and statements people have given.

I'm wondering now if this isn’t just a stranger abduction case that has been seriously compromised by witnesses that were not honest. One example of a "lie" that appears to have been told is that the "boys" who had the altercation with CR at the Smallwood at 2:40 claimed it was about CR's "aggressive" behavior with LS when it now appears it was about the fact that CR was "with" a friend's Girlfriend. The early focus was possibly on CR because he was with LS and "known" to be drunk and belligerent".

I agree that the business with CR, etc. could be a red herring, possibly created by inconsistencies in their stories, whether deliberate or a result of their faulty, alcohol-affected, memories. If true, the investigation has been delayed by the cumbersome task of sorting out their stories. Meanwhile, the trail is growing cold.

 

[epiphany]

Is it me, or is the timeline a bit different now:

He said the latest from those videos shows Spierer walking north of 10th Street between 3:15 and 3:30 a.m. the night she went missing, but he would not say whether she was alone or what else might have happened in the video.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/12/news.895757.sto

 

[kemo]

One "fact" that seem to argue against "stranger abduction" is the "fact" that LS lost her keys sometime before 3:00AM yet she left for the apt at 4:30 AM with no apparent means to get in. Was she unaware that she had lost her keys? If she knew she had lost her keys, she wouldn't just leave without making some arrangements for getting in to her apt would she?

Actually, there is something about the "keys" that still doesn’t ring quite right. I can see how one can "loose" their shoes and cell phone at a bar but how do you "loose" a set of keys attached to a small purse as you are walking along?

 

[Inspector Gidget]

I don't buy CR's not remembering anything either.If he got punched that hard wouldn't he have a whopper of a black eye or lacerations.He was ok to walk back to his apartment .You don't let someone sleep if they have been hit near the head area,most everyone knows that and yet his friend put him to bed.Add to that he was not supposed to be in that apartment building anyway.I just don't have a good feeling about this guy,although I don't see any reason he would have to harm her,unless it was a refusal of sorts from her.

 

[cluciano63]

One "fact" that seem to argue against "stranger abduction" is the "fact" that LS lost her keys sometime before 3:00AM yet she left for the apt at 4:30 AM with no apparent means to get in. Was she unaware that she had lost her keys? If she knew she had lost her keys, she wouldn't just leave without making some arrangements for getting in to her apt would she?

Actually, there is something about the "keys" that still doesn’t ring quite right. I can see how one can "loose" their shoes and cell phone at a bar but how do you "loose" a set of keys attached to a small purse as you are walking along?

Of course the keys/purse could have placed in the street or wherever they were found to appear there was an struggle and abduction.

 

[jjenny]

One "fact" that seem to argue against "stranger abduction" is the "fact" that LS lost her keys sometime before 3:00AM yet she left for the apt at 4:30 AM with no apparent means to get in. Was she unaware that she had lost her keys? If she knew she had lost her keys, she wouldn't just leave without making some arrangements for getting in to her apt would she?

Actually, there is something about the "keys" that still doesn’t ring quite right. I can see how one can "loose" their shoes and cell phone at a bar but how do you "loose" a set of keys attached to a small purse as you are walking along?

She had a roommate. She could have expected for a roommate to let her in.

 

[Knox]

One of them left the day after Lauren's disappearance. If they left the state, then they may not know at all. I'm not sure her disappearance has been heavily covered outside of the area.



You know, I've been thinking about this.

Let's say you lived in the building and didn't hear anything, didn't see anything, etc. Most of us would call the police and tell them just that; we'd think we were being helpful. I'm not sure the average person would though. They'd think they have nothing to contribute.

We don't even know if these two POIs exist, much less if they know the police want to talk with them, much less if they actually saw or heard anything. There is a lot of speculation on this, I just prefer to stick to the facts I guess.

Police are still hoping to speak with certain people in their efforts to learn more about the night Lauren went missing.

“There are individuals we want to speak with…friends and associates … who we hope may be able to provide us with some valuable information,” Qualters said, adding that none of those people appear to be avoiding talking to the police.
http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/local/south_central/police-still-mum-on-search-for-lauren-spierer

and

There are still 10 people of interest in the case, but no suspects. Qualters said not all of those 10 people have been interviewed, but he's "encouraged" by their willingness to cooperate later this week.
"We're still very much in the information gathering stage," Qualters said.

"Keep in mind there's no one we can prevent from leaving this community," because no one has been named a suspect. He would not say how many people have been interviewed, how many people have submitted DNA and polygraph tests, or how many search warrants have been executed.
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/12/news.895757.sto

and

Police are focusing on a total of 10 persons of interest. They are people who saw Lauren in the hours before her disappearance. Investigators said they haven't been able to talk to all of them. Fox59 has learned that police do plan to polygraph test some, if not all of them.
http://www.fox59.com/news/laurenspi...ior-to-disappearance-20110610,0,1526019.story

I can't find the news story that directly states that two of the POI's have not been in touch with LE, but they want to speak to them. Maybe someone else remembers and can find it.

So it's not just speculation or as you state " a misinterpretation" of facts.

 

[jjenny]

Of course the keys/purse could have placed in the street or wherever they were found to appear there was an struggle and abduction.

Extremely unlikely as they appear to have been first seen before 3 am. At that time she was not yet missing.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I believe the fight took place inside the apartment building. Highly unlikely there were any strangers lurking in the shadows. Furthermore we then have her going to CR's apartment and spending some time there, at least one hour. Any stranger lurking would have no way of knowing she was going to leave CR's apartment building and go home alone (if that is what she did).

It has not been established how long LS was in CR/MB's apartment(assuming she was actually there). By MB's account, it would appear to have been brief, like a few minutes, and she wanted to leave. We also have yet to learn how and when she got to JR's apartment (did she just walk a few doors down and knock? Was he outside his door? Did she run into him on the streeet? ) I've seen nothing that gives the timeline from leaving CR/MB's up until JR says he saw her leave. JR's statement of how she came to be at his place, exactly what time this was, what they did, what they discussed, etc... is very important.

However, I agree that someone who simply followed her from Kilroy's or passing on the street probably wouldn't hang around waiting for her, unless he knew her very well, and knew her patterns.

 

[jjenny]

It has not been established how long LS was in CR/MB's apartment(assuming she was actually there). By MB's account, it would appear to have been brief, like a few minutes, and she wanted to leave. We also have yet to learn how and when she got to JR's apartment (did she just walk a few doors down and knock? Was he outside his door? Did she run into him on the streeet? ) I've seen nothing that gives the timeline from leaving CR/MB's up until JR says he saw her leave. JR's statement of how she came to be at his place, exactly what time this was, what they did, what they discussed, etc... is very important.

However, I agree that someone who simply followed her from Kilroy's or passing on the street probably wouldn't hang around waiting for her, unless he knew her very well, and knew her patterns.

I was going by what was reported, such as she went to her apartment building at ~ 2:40 am, left after ~ 10 min, and then JR apparently saw her leave at ~4:15-4:30 am. Which would mean she spend an hour or so in CR's building. However if there is video of her still walking after 3 am, that timeline might be incorrect.

 

[cluciano63]

It is just so odd she somehow lost track of every single item she seemed to have had that night...odds are you would end up with something...

 

[VeryVeritas]

As horrible as the alternative might be, I have to say, I really hope the boyfriend is not involved...nothing worse for her parents, to have someone they trusted end up being the one who harmed her. Yet it happens, time and again.

At this point, it seems to me that her best chance of being alive is if it was a stranger abduction by some nut who kidnapped her. If any of these people close to her is involved, as appears to be most probably based on the gaps, motivations, inconsistencies, and events then she is most likely dead and most likely as an accident or situation gone too far.

 

[jjenny]

It is just so odd she somehow lost track of every single item she seemed to have had that night...odds are you would end up with something...

If she was allegedly intoxicated, not so odd after all.

 

[jjenny]

New info. According to the witness, CR was outside his apartment building asking people if they had seen "a little blond girl." I think CR probably really doesn't remember what had happened if he was asking people if they had seen LS.

"Rossman was outside his apartment, asking Malone if he'd seen Spierer.

"What's up boys?" Malone quoted Rossman as telling him. "Did you happen to see a little blond girl?""

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm

 

[PaulR]

At this point, it seems to me that her best chance of being alive is if it was a stranger abduction by some nut who kidnapped her.

Unfortunately I think this may be true. The police have a number of POI and it doesn't sound - so far - like any of them are considered suspects. That the police can zero in on these POI and not seem to find anything makes me think that she was taken advantage of late at night.

It would not take very much to subdue someone of her height and weight.

 

[kemo]

She had a roommate. She could have expected for a roommate to let her in.

Wouldn't she have called first?

 

[jjenny]

Wouldn't she have called first?

Not necessarily if she expected the roommate to be there.

 

[bessie]

"Supposedly he had that big altercation, but he didn't look like anything happened to him," said senior Chris Malone, who saw Corey the next morning, Feb. 4.

:waitasec:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm

 

[jjenny]

:waitasec:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm

I noticed that as well. Appears to be an obvious typo. They must have meant June, not Feb. There are other types in the article as well. The boyfriend went in to report her missing on June 3rd? Yet the article claims she went missing early hours June 4th? And then we have CR asking people if they had seen a "little blond girl" on Feb 4? Pretty careless with dates, if you ask me.