IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #21

[Frogzilla]

Go back and read your post in the previous thread. You start by saying that LE uses POI in place of the term suspect- that is a half truth. You also went on to say that nowadays LE does not elevate POI's to suspects, they just arrest them. That again is not true. Nowhere in your previous post did you talk about when LE uses the term suspect, you just said it wasnt used anymore-That is not true. I stand by everything I posted. Your post was totally inaccurate. It goes without saying that most of the time a suspect is named an arrest is made. Why would they bother to name a suspect without evidence, in the first place? In your 1st post you say they dont really use the term suspect, in this post you basically say that they dont use the term suspect untill they have a suspect.

Can I ask what exactly it is you are arguing? If LE uses the term POI during an investigation and uses the term suspect after they wish to arrest said person, It seems pretty clear, no? If somebody is wondering why no suspects have been named, it makes sense that there have been no arrests, no? So yes, LE does not use the word suspect anymore during investigations, they use POI. Here is the definition of the term suspect as it pertains to this discussion- To think (a person) guilty without proof - Please notice the definition does not match how LE actually uses the term, suspect was used to mean possible connection to a crime before POI became cop talk. So does it not make sense when I say LE does not use the term suspect anymore, when the implication is during an investigation?
"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat. " - Sun Tzu

 

[Jedger]

I disagree if it was the last day of finals and "move out" day for most students. They're not the civilized type of movers, as I recall, so filling a sleeping bag full of clothes would be some resourceful thing a student might do. Not to mention that there was craziness going on with everyone trying to pack up and head out.

The fact that it was moving day for students is disturbing to me. I went to a large University. Dumpsters were overflowing with broken furniture and garbage so much that most of it ended up on the ground next to the dumpster. Perhaps on another day, a kids dragging a sleeping bag out would appear suspicious. If this happened on any other day, it may not have been so "easy" to dispose of a body.

I don't remember hearing it was the last day of finals, is that true? I thought it was the summer session and some kids had stayed to take classes (like LS) and some were just hanging out before they went home (like JR). I agree that during this time there was prob a continual flow of moving and the accompanying detritus that goes with that, which would help cammoflauge transporting a body. And I've always felt this is why it was possible to move her without being detected. Kids were leaving for the summer, they had bags and coolers and the like and it wasn't unusual, so it prob wouldn't attract notice. But I don't think it was last day of finals? That is a whole different level of chaos! I think visitor leaving might have gone unnoticed at the time, but in hindsight needs to be thoroughly investigated. I just hope LE has done this. I hope they have confirmed that it is DB and have determined where he stayed, when he arrived and when he left. If it was Friday June 3 that he left, is that when he was supposed to leave, or earlier? Since we have basically no idea what LE has been up to in it's investigation, we don't know the answers to these questions and can just hope they have been asked. Unfortunately, I am only marginally optimistic that they have.

 

[bessie]

I think we all understand the difference between a POI and a suspect now. Please move on. Thanks.

 

[imkeylime]

Odor would be a problem with sleeping bag but less so with a cooler.

Yes, true. She's so small, she'd probably fit in a very large party cooler? Then what? Water in a different county (i.e., Brown?) or state (i.e., Michigan?). I still lean toward the dumpster theory, but if the landfill hasn't been checked ... wouldn't have LE had the same theory? I don't get that.

Jupiter, at about what time does it get light in IN? I used to live in the midwest (now on the east coast) ... I remember it staying dark much later in the morning there. What would the window be for going undetected to a dumpster or a car after 3:30 am or so? Like until 6 am? 7 am? And then to drive and make a drop off somewhere ... a cooler would buy time.

It's so difficult to think of someone just discarding a beautiful young woman they know this way. A random abduction would be easier to comprehend ...

 

[Jedger]

Yes, true. She's so small, she'd probably fit in a very large party cooler? Then what? Water in a different county (i.e., Brown?) or state (i.e., Michigan?). I still lean toward the dumpster theory, but if the landfill hasn't been checked ... wouldn't have LE had the same theory? I don't get that.

Jupiter, at about what time does it get light in IN? I used to live in the midwest (now on the east coast) ... I remember it staying dark much later in the morning there. What would the window be for going undetected to a dumpster or a car after 3:30 am or so? Like until 6 am? 7 am? And then to drive and make a drop off somewhere ... a cooler would buy time.

It's so difficult to think of someone just discarding a beautiful young woman they know this way. A random abduction would be easier to comprehend ...

I agree it is very difficult/painful to imagine a "friend" being able to just discard LS. Which is another reason I feel the visitor was likely involved. He would not have known LS well, or possibly at all. Still disgusting that any person could do that to another, but as we know these things do happen far too frequently.

 

[PaulR]

Yes, true. She's so small, she'd probably fit in a very large party cooler?

She wouldn't fit unless she was dismembered, which would result in a lot of blood. The police would have noticed this during the search and we'd have an arrest by now.

 

[Jedger]

One of my children is almost the exact size of LS (he is the one who pointed this out to me when her description was first put out). He's a very slight guy, with very slim limbs, as LS appear to have been as well. I think you'd be surprised how compact a person that size can made to be, and how tight a space they would fit into, while completely intact. I am def NOT suggesting dismemberment! In fact, I think the opposite. I think she died, was not "killed" thus no physical evidence. OD? Long QT? Head trauma from falling? Some combination thereof? Don't know, but I don't think it was preplanned or intentional. I think once she was gone there was panic and a bad decision (understatement of the year) to get rid of the body. Because of drugs and fear that would get traced back, or evidence of sex that would get traced back, or both, again don't know. I'm leaning towards only JR and his visitor being involved.

 

[Tr.]

As it turned out, the FBI eventually figured out that Jewell had done nothing wrong. But in the meantime, its act of naming him as a suspect in this notorious crime left his life and reputation in tatters.

When/if LE can confidently name a suspect..they will announce it. I don't believe they would "sit" on that info for any longer than it takes to be sure.

I can hardly wait...it will sure help to give direction for searching for LS.

 

[OldSteve]

I disagree if it was the last day of finals and "move out" day for most students. They're not the civilized type of movers, as I recall, so filling a sleeping bag full of clothes would be some resourceful thing a student might do. Not to mention that there was craziness going on with everyone trying to pack up and head out.

The fact that it was moving day for students is disturbing to me. I went to a large University. Dumpsters were overflowing with broken furniture and garbage so much that most of it ended up on the ground next to the dumpster. Perhaps on another day, a kids dragging a sleeping bag out would appear suspicious. If this happened on any other day, it may not have been so "easy" to dispose of a body.

BBM

Been following all the posts, what you wrote explains something I've been wondering about, namely, what was the bit of luck whomever got rid of LS had in this case Well, that bit-of-luck was just what you wrote!

 

[Jupiter812]

I don't remember hearing it was the last day of finals, is that true? I thought it was the summer session and some kids had stayed to take classes (like LS) and some were just hanging out before they went home (like JR). I agree that during this time there was prob a continual flow of moving and the accompanying detritus that goes with that, which would help cammoflauge transporting a body. And I've always felt this is why it was possible to move her without being detected. Kids were leaving for the summer, they had bags and coolers and the like and it wasn't unusual, so it prob wouldn't attract notice. But I don't think it was last day of finals? That is a whole different level of chaos! I think visitor leaving might have gone unnoticed at the time, but in hindsight needs to be thoroughly investigated. I just hope LE has done this. I hope they have confirmed that it is DB and have determined where he stayed, when he arrived and when he left. If it was Friday June 3 that he left, is that when he was supposed to leave, or earlier? Since we have basically no idea what LE has been up to in it's investigation, we don't know the answers to these questions and can just hope they have been asked. Unfortunately, I am only marginally optimistic that they have.

You are correct. Finals were longgg over; a month in fact before her disappearance. Summer I was in session. Tenants with end of May leases often leave before the end of the month, definitely most are out by May 31 as was the case with JR's roommates.

 

[Jupiter812]

Yes, true. She's so small, she'd probably fit in a very large party cooler? Then what? Water in a different county (i.e., Brown?) or state (i.e., Michigan?). I still lean toward the dumpster theory, but if the landfill hasn't been checked ... wouldn't have LE had the same theory? I don't get that.

Jupiter, at about what time does it get light in IN? I used to live in the midwest (now on the east coast) ... I remember it staying dark much later in the morning there. What would the window be for going undetected to a dumpster or a car after 3:30 am or so? Like until 6 am? 7 am? And then to drive and make a drop off somewhere ... a cooler would buy time.

It's so difficult to think of someone just discarding a beautiful young woman they know this way. A random abduction would be easier to comprehend ...

Keylime, approx. 6 a.m. would be the cut-off time. I'm not sure what you're asking about the water. I think one of the reasons I pursue the non-landfill theory is it gives me so many other alternatives. There's more control following these lines of query. I do hit a wall when thinking about a person driving and taking the risk of getting stopped for a rear reflector out or something minor like that. I don't see the POI doing this. If this driver is DD or DD asst. it's more believable.

There was a cooler on wheels at the event yesterday. She wouldn't fit in it. I would think there are ones made for tailgate parties that are quite large.

 

[GobBluth]

Jedger, thanks for the welcome! And yes, I do think JR's visitor is an accomplice. I'm going the Occam's Razor route: LS od'd, JR and visitor put her in a sleeping bag, then threw her away, either in the dumpster, or on the way back to Michigan.

But, if we are going the Occam's Razor route, wouldn't the stranger abduction theory be the simplest at this point, to us nonLE people?

Not that I think that is true, but I have certainly not ruled it out.

 

[elmorejames]

No. Which is why I can't seem to let go of it. I haven't seen it anywhere else, since. I think "Ray_Anastasio" is the guy who was best friends with JR's roomates. Wish those threads weren't deleted...

All of JR's roomates are from Marlboro, NJ. The reason I know this is beause on DR's wall he has a post that reads, "La Familia".. Someone with the initials ZD comments, "Always". I did a quick google search with "JR" and "ZD" and the first result yielded this!! INTERESTING.

http://spotcrime.com/crime/14630916-6fd1add6bb768955e3f87af2985d6334

BTW Ray Anastastio is a play on words for the lead singer of Phish Trey Anastasio. We will never know his true identity.

Hope this helps

 

[cluciano63]

But, if we are going the Occam's Razor route, wouldn't the stranger abduction theory be the simplest at this point, to us nonLE people?

Not that I think that is true, but I have certainly not ruled it out.

Not to me, with the narrow timeframe, the seemingly empty streets, cameras not picking anything up and the fact that stranger abductions are still the lowest percentile for missing women.

 

[Missing Budweiser]

Do we know the name of JR's supposed house guest/visitor or just his initials, "DB"?

 

[AbbeyR]

All of JR's roomates are from Marlboro, NJ. The reason I know this is beause on DR's wall he has a post that reads, "La Familia".. Someone with the initials ZD comments, "Always". I did a quick google search with "JR" and "ZD" and the first result yielded this!! INTERESTING.

http://spotcrime.com/crime/14630916-6fd1add6bb768955e3f87af2985d6334

BTW Ray Anastastio is a play on words for the lead singer of Phish Trey Anastasio. We will never know his true identity.

Hope this helps

Hmm, yet another phan connected to the POI's :innocent:. A quick look at social networking sites leads me to believe that this roommate was probably not in Bloomington June 3rd though...

 

[AbbeyR]

Do we know the name of JR's supposed house guest/visitor or just his initials, "DB"?

His name is on some of the blogs. But do we even know if this was the visitor, or is this based entirely on one tweet that showed he was in the area?

 

[jenniek]

His name is on some of the blogs. But do we even know if this was the visitor, or is this based entirely on one tweet that showed he was in the area?

http://jayrosenbaumneedstotalk.wordpress.com/

this page will tell you his name just scroll down a little

 

[imkeylime]

Keylime, approx. 6 a.m. would be the cut-off time. I'm not sure what you're asking about the water. I think one of the reasons I pursue the non-landfill theory is it gives me so many other alternatives. There's more control following these lines of query. I do hit a wall when thinking about a person driving and taking the risk of getting stopped for a rear reflector out or something minor like that. I don't see the POI doing this. If this driver is DD or DD asst. it's more believable.

There was a cooler on wheels at the event yesterday. She wouldn't fit in it. I would think there are ones made for tailgate parties that are quite large.

Thanks! Re: water, sorry to be vague. I read something about Brown County last night, and it sounds similar to parts of Oakland County in MI, where JR is from (me, too). If JR is involved, lakes, big and small, would be in his repertoire. Another poster got me thinking about MI lakes, so I have water on the brain. (And dumpsters.)

Re: cooler ... I know the big coolers you speak of. These are well-off college kids, but I'm not sure if their parents would buy these for them. OTOH, maybe they have their own charge cards. She'd have to be put in it asap, in terms of physical changes after death (hate saying that). Still, it doesn't mean it couldn't happen.

Actually, I suppose a person could put a small body in a big bag of any sorts and carry it to a car in the dark, horrible as that sounds.

 

[OldSteve]

Wouldn't a big cooler be rather heavy? Clumsy to move around... and because it not so common to have, more easily found to be missing, also purchase might be traceable...

Sleeping bag seems more logical and available on the spur-of-the-moment..