IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #22

[Btown]

5 North is finally installing outside cameras.

I post this so that in the future when someone says they have cameras, you can point to this post.

(You know its gonna happen).

 

[Jedger]

5 North is finally installing outside cameras.

I post this so that in the future when someone says they have cameras, you can point to this post.

(You know its gonna happen).

Ha! I'm sure you're right! Even following this story as closely as possible it is still sometimes difficult to keep track of sequence and who was with who where (in part bc we really know little.). Very easy to imagine newcomer insisting there must be video from 5north once those cameras are in
As always Btown, so grateful for your " on the ground" reporting!

 

[Pedrosmom]

Pedro's mom, it's too hard to even "poke holes" in that story as Bloom54 points out, working with info we have, you have the sequence of events wrong, and very likely people involved in altercation wrong and time JW took roomate to class wrong. I also find it extremely difficult to believe that if a furious and vengeful JW showed up and was left with Lauren that these other clowns (CR, MB, and JR) would involve themselves in her disappearance. Especially MB. And although those 3 may have been friends with each other, they were hardly buds with JW, so very unlikely IMO that they'd be willing to help shield him. If JW was involved, I think it happened after she left 5 north in that 4:15 range, but I personally don't think she ever "walked" out of 5north that morning. I do agree with you and with Bloom that HT probably knows or has heard much more than she is sharing.

I don't think she ever made it to 5 North the second time around. I believe she met her demise on her way there. No JW and JR n crew are not buds but JR may not know how she died - so he's CYA. JW could blame JR but where's Lauren? Why did JR say that? Actually, HT said that for JR, perhaps to throw the scent off the fact that she was walking and talking at 4:15 when she was near death due to the drugs taking effect. I think MB is an innocent bystander, but knows something. It's like the proverbial Mexican standoff - not to offend. One side versus the other. No one fesses up then there is no crime. I have no doubt that JW was the offender. Perhaps JR did see her walk away, or stumble, or maybe he put her there.

 

[mamamia54]

Wow, this is a shame, here we are once again, just like in the Morgan Harrington case at a standstill, nothing coming forth from LE or the FBI. Will this case be solved or will it just be another cold case?

 

[British]

MOO, My own theory, fill in the blanks, poke holes as you wish.

Lauren partied with JR, HT, CR, DR and others and 5 North earlier in the night (perhaps 12:30ish). She went back with CR to Smallwood and was confronted by friends of JW. The beat the snot out of CR because he's with JW's girlfriend. LS & CR leave. Go to Killoys, things are starting to turn worse for Lauren. Perhaps the party favors at 5 North were starting to take on their side effects, mixed with her heart medication or her heart condition. She decides she's going home, or she can't decide anything so CR decides. For reasons unknown to this poster, they leave Smallwood rather quickly. CR shouldn't be there anyway. Maybe she was looking for her phone, maybe she was getting her medicine, maybe we don't know why. HT was likely home at the time (about 2:30). She knows how messed up Lauren was. Now 2:30 is the time that JW says he went to bed. The timing is uncanny. Could it be that HT gave JW a heads up that LS and CR were headed to 5 North? Hmmm. Coincidence? JW leaves his phone so as not to be tracked and goes to find Lauren, who according to HT, made some poor choices that night. She and CR are walking to 5 North via the alley. This was probably a common way to travel. JW beats her to the punch. He's got the heads up that she's on her was there. He's got some business to take care of with the guy that took his girlfriend and his girlfriend herself. JW cuts her off at the gravel lot, under the eye of the camera. He's mad as he**. She is supposed to be with him that night. His real goal is CR, but CR takes off running (he's messed up but not suffering the side effects that LS might be suffering) and is spotted on the video outside of his attorney's office (other reasons he maybe spotted outside attys office), or he runs inside his apartment. Lauren is incapacitated, helpless and at the mercy of a raging mad boyfriend. The side effects of the party favors are really taking effect. Something is happening to LS and between JW and LS - right there at about 3 AM. It doesn't matter anymore. LE and Lauren's parents know. That's all that does matter. There are several questions remaining... Did she die of an overdose? Did JW do something to contribute? Nevertheless, JW is left with LS (I imagine he is culpable or he would have called 911). What is he going to do? Does he have his car nearby? Did he allude the cameras, take the back roads and get to 5 North without being noticed? Did he go on foot afraid his car would be noticed. Does he hide the body in his trunk? a nearby dumpster? The WHERE that we do not know. Still no action on his cell phone, his sleeping alibi is safe. CR eventually gets back to 5 North and tells MB, JR (and the other actors that were present at the pre-party) about his encounter with JW, about Lauren, her condition. They all freak out. They make a few calls but clearer heads prevail. Wait until morning. Perhaps they go out and look for her, perhaps CR is spotted looking for her (the other reason CR may be spotted on video outside his attys office). They're worried because of the condition she is in. They parrtied with her. They contributed. They're culpable. No Lauren.

They all rise early the next morning. Phones are buzzing where is Lauren? But JW? - he takes his roommate to his 8:00 class. Then he starts looking for a place to hide Lauren. It can't be far - his actions are now under the spotlight but there is foot and car traffic and perhaps his car is seen on video at 8:00AM so he fesses up to it anyway. Lauren is missing. He's got very little time. Did he put her in something (suitcase? ) and put her in the trunk before daylight? Did he do it the night before? Could he risk her being found by someone else? He knows where the cameras are. He's been on that campus for 4 years.

Everyone is wondering what happened to Lauren because EVERYONE may have played a part and not even realized it. JW is left holding the bag. He helped, no doubt. Hiding a body is a felony. Drugs are too. Everyone just zips it up tight until a body is found and the cause of death is determined. Perhaps there is more than one cause of death and therefore 10 POIs keep their mouths shut. They all know the part they played, some more than others. But as frat boys go - they all stick together. Some more loyal to friends than others. Some protecting a bigger operation. Some just protecting themselves. Better to be safe. Maybe only one person knows where Lauren is, but 10 are sitting on eggs wondering what their role in a murder conviction may bring.

JR calls DR at 4:15, who ironically lives at Smallwood and was with them earlier, to check and see if Lauren made it home. He doesn't answer. DR is three sheets to the wind.

There's only one common denominator between these people, albeit an innocent one, that is HT. She likes JW but talks to JR that morning. She talks to JW that morning. She knows what everyone said and did, well maybe everything, and Lauren's parents are disgusted that she isn't telling more...

JMOO

With all due respect, this theory is totally irrational. Makes zero sense and is not supported by the known facts in the case.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

5 North is finally installing outside cameras.

I post this so that in the future when someone says they have cameras, you can point to this post.

(You know its gonna happen).

I bookmarked it.

 

[Darcyline]

It is good to continue exploring different theories and exploring options so thank you for posting PedrosMom. In my opinion, though, I don't think this particular theory really fits the facts that we do know or the facts we can make educated guesses about.

I still think the most likely explanation is either 1. JR and/or visitor of JR 2. She met with someone after leaving JR's. People seem really invested in JR's innocence though and I am sort of curious way. In other cases, it almost seems the opposite-people IMMEDIATELY assume the last man to see a woman had something to do with it. Why has JR missed a lot of the suspicion in this case? (except for that one website of course!).

 

[LittleAMom]

I'm not buying that JR disposed of LS's body. I read that JR didn't have immediate access to his car (not sure where it was) and that's why they tried to call DR (I may have read this on the phish forum). Also, JR has out of town visitor, and that visitor later tweets the next day that he's eating a corned beef sandwich. If I was JR's visitor and I was witness to someone's last moments, and/or involved in the disposal of a body, I'd be pretty shaken and I certainly wouldn't be eating a corned beef sandwich later that day. I guess he could have been sleeping when all of it happened.

I can see JR supplying drugs, for sure. In fact, maybe that's why she could even walk out of there.

And I'm not buying JW's involvement, but it's just a gut feeling. FWIW, some who is one of JW's roommates on the phish forum has been posting and I do believe him.

Plaidmom (post #27) makes an interesting point.

Anyway, I hope this relative media silence means that this case is near a conclusion.

 

[Pedrosmom]

With all due respect, this theory is totally irrational. Makes zero sense and is not supported by the known facts in the case.

The only "questionable" fact is when JW went to drive his roommate. I've read and cited on earlier threads several places that have said 8:00AM. Others say 12:30. Other than that the timetable is from the facts gathered. Tell me where Im wrong or that you just don't buy it. We are all entitled to that. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected. If you don't agree, that's your problem.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

The only "questionable" fact is when JW went to drive his roommate. I've read and cited on earlier threads several places that have said 8:00AM. Others say 12:30. Other than that the timetable is from the facts gathered. Tell me where Im wrong or that you just don't buy it. We are all entitled to that. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected. If you don't agree, that's your problem.

You were wrong about the sequence of the SW fight, a basic fact known to anyone paying attention. You're also wrong about JW's class, which was said to be at noon - find one cite that says it was 8AM. And I only read quickly, because I agree with British about your theory (and could use stronger terms), but it seemed that you believe that 4:15 is PM rather than AM.

Never mind that you have JR and JW in league with one another when people associated with each have pointed fingers at one another on message boards, and most people find questionable any idea that all of these people are keeping a story under wraps.

 

[British]

I'm not buying that JR disposed of LS's body. I read that JR didn't have immediate access to his car (not sure where it was) and that's why they tried to call DR (I may have read this on the phish forum). Also, JR has out of town visitor, and that visitor later tweets the next day that he's eating a corned beef sandwich. If I was JR's visitor and I was witness to someone's last moments, and/or involved in the disposal of a body, I'd be pretty shaken and I certainly wouldn't be eating a corned beef sandwich later that day. I guess he could have been sleeping when all of it happened.

I can see JR supplying drugs, for sure. In fact, maybe that's why she could even walk out of there.

And I'm not buying JW's involvement, but it's just a gut feeling. FWIW, some who is one of JW's roommates on the phish forum has been posting and I do believe him.

Plaidmom (post #27) makes an interesting point.

Anyway, I hope this relative media silence means that this case is near a conclusion.

I pretty much agree with all your points. To me, the most suspicious in the whole case is the POI who claimed "memory loss". Red flag right there.

 

[Jupiter812]

I pretty much agree with all your points. To me, the most suspicious in the whole case is the POI who claimed "memory loss". Red flag right there.

CR has been on my radar today. Here's why:

That video of Lauren stumbling out the elevator has been referred to here as a possible leak. If so, it's obvious purpose is to contradict CR and Salzmann statements.

Of the ten POIs it seems CR is probably the one who is closet to JR. These two might be working together with their statements.

Early in the case friends described CR as being "inappropriate, belligerent, aggressive" with Lauren but she left with him anyway. Maybe this behavior is on tape too.

CR got punched for a reason. I sense that it was for more than his inappropriateness to LS. I'm not saying the punch is the key to the case but rather an insight into CR's character--that he did something "bad" and paid for it with physical assault.

That said, he and MB were the first to take lie detector tests and provide DNA.

 

[Jupiter812]

It is not that unusual for cops to kill themselves while on duty. I have heard of it before. It is a very stressful job and it is a way of making a statement. Sometimes they lose their spouses and families because of the job related hours and stress, and shooting themselves in the squad car is a statement of some kind.

Yes, it's an occupational hazard. I would expect as occupations go, the suicide rate for police is higher than average. From what I've heard and read, substance abuse is high too.

 

[Darcyline]

CR may be on my radar, but I always come back to the fact that JR pretty much has to be covering for someone if he isn't involved at all and I don't get why anyone would potentially implicate themselves in a murder even for a good friend. If it was CR, he has at least two guys if not more covering for him and potentially implicating themselves to cover for him. Either those two guys were somehow involved and somehow guilty themselves so we have three suspects or those are some powerful, powerful, powerful friendships. That or CR has some serious **** on them.

Any thoughts on why JR and MB would be sticking their necks out and lying for CR? Just friendship?

 

[Angelonline]

They have the POI right under their nose and not letting him go far.

? JW went back to NY if that is the POI you are referring to.

 

[bloom54]

That said, he (CR) and MB were the first to take lie detector tests and provide DNA.

ah.. but if CR knows that he didn't have sex with LS, then a DNA test is less of a risk, no? And he might have felt comfortable with the lie detector test since he had amnesia.... I don't really doubt his "amnesia" -- just the cause of it!

 

[Jupiter812]

Sex is not necessary to leave DNA. Scratches, drop of blood, hair,saliva, etc.

Edited to add: his DNA was/is probably on her anyway given their evening together.

 

[bloom54]

Sex is not necessary to leave DNA. Scratches, drop of blood, hair,saliva, etc.

Edited to add: his DNA was/is probably on her anyway given their evening together.

I agree... especially since he supposedly had to help her off the floor at SW... but there's places to find DNA that might NOT be good for his case...

 

[Kiln Wood]

You have the sequence backwards. They went to Kilroy's after 5 North and THEN back to SW...

They only went to SW once -- AFTER Kilroy's... per LE, LS didn't actually enter her apartment during that visit and per reports HT was not present at the altercation.

As far as the guys who fought with CR being "friends of JW" I think later reports indicated that they were not.

I believe the latest timeline for JW taking his roommate to class the next day was at noon...

While I don't believe much of your scenario/timeline, I do agree that HT has way more info than she's sharing - at least publicly.... and she's been pretty quiet lately, so perhaps she's talking to LE...

BBM

Although I've faithfully read every post on all the LS threads, I post to these threads very infrequently.

While I was reading the part of this post I've put in bold letters, I had two crazy thoughts occur:

1. I fervently wish Domenick Dunne was still alive because I believe any writeup he would commit to about LS would be filled with insight that I just simply don't have--and very few others do either (I apologize in advance if I've insulted anyone who posts on the LS threads; that was not my intention).

2. I hope one of the wonderful writers for Vanity Fair magazine would be able to conduct an interview with HT and publish the result. I believe that would make for very interesting reading.....If any of you learns of a Vanity Fair article about LS, I'd appreciate your posting that information. I live "far from the maddening crowd," and I don't get out and about too much.

My sincere thanks to all who post here!!! I have learned SO MUCH about contemporary life in the context of a large Midwestern university.

 

[Jupiter812]

http://www.southbendtribune.com/wxi...s-100k-reward-20110609,0,6274907.story?page=1

I just picked up a few new tidbits from this. It's a a solid piece for so early in the case.

Page 2 lots of info about CR.