Inspector Gidget
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2008
- Messages
- 1,367
- Reaction score
- 864
Martinsville keeps popping up and I do think they should search this area again .A strange event about the fire around that time
IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #22
- Thread starter SheWhoMustNotBeNamed
- Start date
- Status
Martinsville keeps popping up and I do think they should search this area again .A strange event about the fire around that time
BBM
One of the things I've considered it that LS either got into a car, or was put into car (or truck or van etc), alive. That would explain her complete "poof" disappearance from Bloomington.
Of course this doesn't fit in with either parents coming to town, or cars being moved via moving trucks.:waitasec:
Anyone know if any of the POIs, or friends of the POIs, or friends of friends of the POIs, happened to be driving home (alone) that weekend?
I'm conflicted about the boys talking....
On one hand, I want to believe that there was only one person involved in her disappearance. I think this b/c there's so much silence. I think it would be very difficult to keep stories straight and it appears that there has been at least some degree of cooperation and perhaps even some Lie Detector tests.
On the other hand, I believe that there had to have been more involved. I think this because A. There were so many people presumable drunk or high, that it would make sense to call in more "level headed" folks. B. There are just way too many weird things that happened that night - far to many "players" (no pun intended) in the mix. I don't believe in coincidences that much. I think things happened for a reason and that it's no coincidence that people ended up where they were at the time. It just seems to me that there were too many involved, for there to have been only one person to know what happened.
If the latter is true, then that takes me back to my first hand, and wondering why someone hasn't talked yet.
On one hand, I want to believe that there was only one person involved in her disappearance. I think this b/c there's so much silence. I think it would be very difficult to keep stories straight and it appears that there has been at least some degree of cooperation and perhaps even some Lie Detector tests.
On the other hand, I believe that there had to have been more involved. I think this because A. There were so many people presumable drunk or high, that it would make sense to call in more "level headed" folks. B. There are just way too many weird things that happened that night - far to many "players" (no pun intended) in the mix. I don't believe in coincidences that much. I think things happened for a reason and that it's no coincidence that people ended up where they were at the time. It just seems to me that there were too many involved, for there to have been only one person to know what happened.
If the latter is true, then that takes me back to my first hand, and wondering why someone hasn't talked yet.
JeannieC
New Member
- Joined
- May 23, 2011
- Messages
- 4,994
- Reaction score
- 155
I know what you mean. I really wonder if she OD'd or if she had a heart attack. She did have a heart condition. One or more might have panicked and decided to take her somewhere else.
I think they put her in a trunk and drove her off somewhere. jmo
Jupiter812
New Member
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2011
- Messages
- 1,744
- Reaction score
- -15
CR is on my radar. This is one sketchy dude. Too bad he wasn't arrested for something on June 3. He has three offenses in Monroe county. IU should never had allowed him to pre-register for classes. And the county should continue taking his money meanwhile haul his *advertiser censored* to jail.
I wonder if he passed his polygraph. If someone doesn't pass what happens? Suspicion of POI is intensified?
Same with his partner in crime, JR. Re: Halloween arrests during which they defy the police telling them they'll break into Smallwood if they want to. Or something to that effect. Unstable characters and I seriously question their intelligence. They are probably barely making the grade. I wonder if JR's semester in Spain was academic study or something personal, like rehab or mental health. Anyone know?
I wonder if he passed his polygraph. If someone doesn't pass what happens? Suspicion of POI is intensified?
Same with his partner in crime, JR. Re: Halloween arrests during which they defy the police telling them they'll break into Smallwood if they want to. Or something to that effect. Unstable characters and I seriously question their intelligence. They are probably barely making the grade. I wonder if JR's semester in Spain was academic study or something personal, like rehab or mental health. Anyone know?
I'm not sure a Poly is really a pass/fail thing... I posted awhile ago about my experience with a poly about 10 years ago... and if he truly has no memory of something happening, that would seriously impact the validity of a poly anyways.
Terrific article in the Herald Times today about the Pretrial Diversion program in Monroe County. Lots of attention to CR's PDP history there. Here's a "snip" (hope it's not too long for the TOS)
"CR, 21 and from New York Citys wealthy Upper East Side, had not one or two but three shots at Monroe Countys Pretrial Diversion Program. He successfully completed Phase I of the program and paid $403 after a 2008 arrest for possession of marijuana and maintaining a common nuisance when he was living on campus at Briscoe Shoemaker.
CR entered the program again after a Halloween 2010 arrest for illegal consumption; he took the alcohol education class and paid $428. He was accepted to the program a third time two months later, in December, once again charged with illegal consumption of alcohol.
CR paid another $428 and was assigned to more intensive treatment. But because he did not follow through, Miller said, he is no longer in the program for that offense, and it has gone back to court. His family has paid $1,259, so far, to keep his criminal record clean.
A notice of PDP violation was filed in CRs case this past Wednesday. He is scheduled to appear in Monroe Circuit Court Sept. 27 for an initial hearing. His PDP days most likely are over."
It appears that the pressure on the POIs has begun... GOOD!
Jupiter812
New Member
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2011
- Messages
- 1,744
- Reaction score
- -15
Thanks Bloom54! I read just a few reader comments earlier which sort got me going. Do you know if those hearings are public?
I read this Fascinating article about polys. No wonder they are inadmissible in court. You'd think we would have better technology in this day and age. But maybe it's better that we don't else big brother knows what we're thinking:crazy:...
http://www.polygraphplace.com/ubb/NonCGI/Forum2/HTML/000093.html
I read this Fascinating article about polys. No wonder they are inadmissible in court. You'd think we would have better technology in this day and age. But maybe it's better that we don't else big brother knows what we're thinking:crazy:...
http://www.polygraphplace.com/ubb/NonCGI/Forum2/HTML/000093.html
phantomthought
Member
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2011
- Messages
- 408
- Reaction score
- 0
As far as JR is concerned we can assume he refused to take a lie detector test when LE asked or he was found to be deceptive if he did.There would be no other reason for him to provide his own test results since LE would just throw it in a garbage can and it would do nothing to help clear him.Also since LE wants the ability to question suspects multiple times and do not want to be provided statements (most likely prepared by his lawyer) we can assume he has also refused to be interviewed or reinterviewed.Also it makes it a lot easier for these two to keep their story's strait when one person claims to remember nothing.
Dogface
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2009
- Messages
- 2,734
- Reaction score
- 427
You know for some reason the Jasmine Fiore case came to mind to me today...she was a petite girl(not even as small as LS) and she was transported out of a hotel in a suitcase...with all these students packing up to leave, I really feel she could have been easily concealed and dumped almost ANYWHERE. Sad, sad, sad. Still I will keep my fingers crosses that answers come out soon!
This will be long but I've had some ideas that I'd love for posters to poke hole in....
I've really wrestled with the idea that these boys would keep her in a suitcase or trunk, etc. for even a day. Knowing how impulsive boys are at this age, and knowing what they tend to do when they make a a bad decision or mistake (try to hide it), it's difficult for me to believe that while they knew people were out looking for her (and likely knew this had been reported to LE), they would have been keeping her somewhere close by all along. I'd think most kids this age would have been scared to death. I don't get the feeling that this was a murder (unless perhaps if a DD was involved). I feel that if someone at 5 North was involved, it was likely an accident. IF that's true, it appears that the only crime was to hide her b/c of possible drugs involved....."Let's just get rid of her so no one will know." With that mentality, why keep her in the trunk? If the idea was that they wanted to get rid of her so no one would connect them to her body, then why keep the body around for even a second?
All of that said, I also think that she appears to be "hidden" VERY well (or perhaps not - maybe she's just weighted down well in a lake or buried very very deep in a woods and just yet to be found). If she's hidden so well however, that makes me wonder....how could a bunch of presumably drunk/drugged boys carry that off on their own? This takes me back to....
1. Perhaps it really wasn't an accident. Those who are capable of murder probably think much differently than just scared boys. They are more calculating and brazen. We've all heard about murderers who keep bodies around, right under people's nose, for extended periods. I just don't think drunk/drugged boys would do this, given an accident.
2. Perhaps it really wasn't one of the POI's after all. I keep thinking that it is, but I think that only b/c of so many involved throughout the night, her heart condition, and the rumors of drunkenness/drugs, plus the 3:38 witness, and the elevator witness, describing her condition. But - what if these really were all just "coincidences" to add into the story and really have nothing to do with the end result? A stranger abduction by someone cold and calculated could also explain why she hasn't been found.
3. Perhaps she really did fall into a construction site, covered up and will never be found.
I personally still believe that there's one or more POI involved, and that HT knows more than she's shared. Her comments have appeared defensive to me. Things don't seem to add up and the Spierers seem to be wanted FRIENDS to TALK. It's clear to me that they know that one of these people know something more. However, I go back to wondering about how she was so well concealed on that particular night, by one or more presumable drunk/drugged impulsive and scared kids. Makes no sense to me at all......
I've really wrestled with the idea that these boys would keep her in a suitcase or trunk, etc. for even a day. Knowing how impulsive boys are at this age, and knowing what they tend to do when they make a a bad decision or mistake (try to hide it), it's difficult for me to believe that while they knew people were out looking for her (and likely knew this had been reported to LE), they would have been keeping her somewhere close by all along. I'd think most kids this age would have been scared to death. I don't get the feeling that this was a murder (unless perhaps if a DD was involved). I feel that if someone at 5 North was involved, it was likely an accident. IF that's true, it appears that the only crime was to hide her b/c of possible drugs involved....."Let's just get rid of her so no one will know." With that mentality, why keep her in the trunk? If the idea was that they wanted to get rid of her so no one would connect them to her body, then why keep the body around for even a second?
All of that said, I also think that she appears to be "hidden" VERY well (or perhaps not - maybe she's just weighted down well in a lake or buried very very deep in a woods and just yet to be found). If she's hidden so well however, that makes me wonder....how could a bunch of presumably drunk/drugged boys carry that off on their own? This takes me back to....
1. Perhaps it really wasn't an accident. Those who are capable of murder probably think much differently than just scared boys. They are more calculating and brazen. We've all heard about murderers who keep bodies around, right under people's nose, for extended periods. I just don't think drunk/drugged boys would do this, given an accident.
2. Perhaps it really wasn't one of the POI's after all. I keep thinking that it is, but I think that only b/c of so many involved throughout the night, her heart condition, and the rumors of drunkenness/drugs, plus the 3:38 witness, and the elevator witness, describing her condition. But - what if these really were all just "coincidences" to add into the story and really have nothing to do with the end result? A stranger abduction by someone cold and calculated could also explain why she hasn't been found.
3. Perhaps she really did fall into a construction site, covered up and will never be found.
I personally still believe that there's one or more POI involved, and that HT knows more than she's shared. Her comments have appeared defensive to me. Things don't seem to add up and the Spierers seem to be wanted FRIENDS to TALK. It's clear to me that they know that one of these people know something more. However, I go back to wondering about how she was so well concealed on that particular night, by one or more presumable drunk/drugged impulsive and scared kids. Makes no sense to me at all......
Ive never been able to get that fire off my mind either! It bothers the crap out of me!
And as far as no 1 having talked yet....its summertime-once everybody is bback at school i think everyone will be talking about it and more stories will come out. The more details we can get about these ppl and that night the better. Im not giving up hope. I just do NOT believe it was a stranger.
Not felonies, though. "Drunk in public" type charges.
Polygraphs are notoriously unreliable.
Drunken ranting?
JR does not have a felony history.
What if JR's story is true, and LS walked around the corner of 11th & College Avenue @ app. 4:30 , encountered someone else, got into this other person's car, and then disappeared?
A lot depends too on LS's actual medical state. No one noticed any medical crisis (as far as the media has reported) though a crowd had assembled in the Smallwood hallway at the time of the altercation. The "elevator stumble" report could indicate that she was both seriously intoxicated and also afraid of violence. She then proceeded with CR where the two students "made their way" through the alley, again most likely indicating intoxication.
Her companion's roommate, MB, "put him to bed," indicating that CR was severely incapacitated. LS then asked MB to party? That does not make any sense.
In discussing this case, people are constantly using the word "party" in both senses: that is, both to mean attending a social event, and also to mean taking drugs. HT surely would not openly describe LS to the media as "a girl who loved to party" if her meaning was "LS loved to take illegal drugs." In this particular context, HT meant that LS was very social. That social life at the dorms apparently revolved around drug abuse is a separate issue.
If LS was very social, then certainly she would know that to invite another guy to party after her date for the evening had been assaulted and virtually passed out would be considered worse than insensitive.
OTOH maybe CR was not a "date." Maybe they had some purpose in going to the bar together. Maybe a couple on date appears less suspicious than a guy going into an establishment late at night by himself and only staying very briefly.
I agree... these kids have been sheltered all summer... they may be pretty careful initially this fall, but my bet is that they'll begin to let down their guards...
HT also publicly used the word "rage" -- which also means party in the illegal drug sense, so I have no qualms about considering her use of the word "party" in those terms also. I believe she used that word in the context of her generation, not to mean that LS was "social".... I really don't see HT being that careful about language usage.
and do kids "date" now?? I don't really think so... kids go someplace together... and then they may or may not end up in bed...
Darcyline
New Member
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2010
- Messages
- 1,300
- Reaction score
- 8
I have literally never heard anyone under the age of 40 use the word "party" in that context to mean "she was a very social girl" HT's comments of that nature have always bothered me. She KNOWS what she is implying when she says Lauren loves to party and "it went too far this time"-she knows exactly what that is saying and it has always seemed like a jerk thing to say about a missing friend even if it may be true.
I also don't think their arrest records really mean much necessarily. A few illegal consumption charges are basically the speed trap of the college world. They know most kids do it and, especially in wealthier places, they know they can easily nail them for 500 bucks a charge. I have no reason to believe JR was in rehab-"work studies" or "semesters abroad" to Spain are both very common and basically code for "party with a lot of hot Spanish women" around here. I sort of assumed his facebook picture was from there as well and he doesn't look like he is in rehab there
So I guess they are doing typical stupid college guy stuff to me and I am not sure if that immediately makes me suspect them of murder. It does give precedent that they probably did party though (and yes, I am using the young person definition). Party+Lauren=possible bad results.
I also have a question-I have heard a lot of people refer to their low IQs or low intelligence or how stupid they are. Is that just because of some of the stupid things they have done or do we have actual proof they have lower than average IQs? Like, academic probation, 1.5 GPAs, etc?
I also don't think their arrest records really mean much necessarily. A few illegal consumption charges are basically the speed trap of the college world. They know most kids do it and, especially in wealthier places, they know they can easily nail them for 500 bucks a charge. I have no reason to believe JR was in rehab-"work studies" or "semesters abroad" to Spain are both very common and basically code for "party with a lot of hot Spanish women" around here. I sort of assumed his facebook picture was from there as well and he doesn't look like he is in rehab there
So I guess they are doing typical stupid college guy stuff to me and I am not sure if that immediately makes me suspect them of murder. It does give precedent that they probably did party though (and yes, I am using the young person definition). Party+Lauren=possible bad results.
I also have a question-I have heard a lot of people refer to their low IQs or low intelligence or how stupid they are. Is that just because of some of the stupid things they have done or do we have actual proof they have lower than average IQs? Like, academic probation, 1.5 GPAs, etc?
Darcyline- I can't honestly answer your question about their IQs but I'll share my opinion.....
I believe these have to all be above-average intelligent kids. They got into a Big 10 school (mind you, if they were smarter they could have gotten into Purdue, but...sorry, couldn't help it :floorlaugh. They aren't freshman, so they've managed to make it this far and classes get harder, so that kinda tells me something.
I've always had a saying that "When a group of teenagers or young adults are in a room, the average IQ drops to that of the lowest one in the room!" Basically, my point is that when you get a group of boys together, it only takes one impulsive bad-decision maker to get them all going...
I believe these have to all be above-average intelligent kids. They got into a Big 10 school (mind you, if they were smarter they could have gotten into Purdue, but...sorry, couldn't help it :floorlaugh
. They aren't freshman, so they've managed to make it this far and classes get harder, so that kinda tells me something.I've always had a saying that "When a group of teenagers or young adults are in a room, the average IQ drops to that of the lowest one in the room!" Basically, my point is that when you get a group of boys together, it only takes one impulsive bad-decision maker to get them all going...
Yeah... and with each "hit" of whatever they're "partying" with, the IQ probably drops by about 20% or so...
:maddening::banghead:
phantomthought
Member
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2011
- Messages
- 408
- Reaction score
- 0
If these POI were in their 40's and had no criminal record maybe that would mean something.What have they been adults for 2 or 3 years?Not much time to commit a crime and get caught.Plus who knows what kind of trouble their parents have managed to get them out of.They seamed to know to get them a lawyer very quickly.Maybe they have experience with this.As I said they have only been adults for a very short time who knows if they have a juvenile record or not.
The mods must be pretty busy-i dont think any of these threads have made it too 32 pgs b4.
I just wanna say God Bless u all for continuing to come here everyday and for keeping Lauren in your thoughts. There r alot of wonderful, bright ppl on this site.
The first thing i do is come here every single day. I really appreciate all of u. Hope everyone has a wonderful day!
School starts tom!
I just wanna say God Bless u all for continuing to come here everyday and for keeping Lauren in your thoughts. There r alot of wonderful, bright ppl on this site.
The first thing i do is come here every single day. I really appreciate all of u. Hope everyone has a wonderful day!
School starts tom!
Generation is not a context; situation is a context. College students used the word "party" both ways back in the 70s, too. To grasp the meaning you would have to know the individual and the relevant situation. Dealers like ambiguity.
The college students are not "kids." In any other culture or historical time period, they would be married, have children and meaningful work.
JMO: College students do date and have relationships, and they do use the word "date." They seem to be going back to the future, becoming more conservative. They don't romanticize "free love." Casual sexual activity is pejoritized as "hooking up."
The situation as described makes no sense. CR passes out, so LS supposedly just asks the next guy she sees to party? His close friend, no less? In either sense of the word "party" that would make no sense, unless (1) her trip to the bar was not based on romantic interest in CR, and (2) her question was not an invitation.
- Status