IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #23

[Walker]

However I know of a case where a guy was going home (G'ma's) around midnight. On a dark road, just down from his G'ma's, there was a drunk guy who walked out in front of him, and was hit by the kid. The kid had no clue what to do so he called his Grandma for help. The G'ma said that she'd call 911 and for him to drive down to get her so that she could help him. He did, and they returned immediately. When they returned, the G'ma believed the guy was dead (she was right). LE asked at the scene if he had been drinking or taken any drugs. He honestly told them that he had smoked a little pot very early that afternoon. Now, anyone who's smoked pot would say that 8-10 hours later, he would have felt no effect, but it would of course still be in his blood system. The kid was helpful and truthful, and this was a sad sad accident. The dead guy had a very high BAC if I recall.

There was talk that this kid was going to be criminally charged with involuntary manslaughter b/c of operating a vehicle with drugs in his system. Additionally, I understand that the drunk guy's family was going to sue him in civil court.

This is a great example of what could happen to these kids if they talk about any drug related activity the night of Lauren's presumed death. The truth is, when faced with something like this, I hope that I'd do the right thing. But sometimes the "right" thing can pose very "wrong" consequences. Not for a minute do I believe the kid I described was guilty of the other guy's death. It was a case of him being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Maybe it's Puritanical. They believe that the pot smoking is immoral, so if this young man goes to prison, they think it's justice.

 

[bloom54]

While I'd guess that she saw LS's demeanor, when she returned to Smallwood, [/B]why would she automatically associate that with her being missing right away? I still get the impression that she knows something and that she is sticking up for someone....

Except that we've never been told that HT was present during the altercation or knew anything about it... so HOW did HT make that deduction??? That's always been a ?? for me...

In many ways I feel like HT manufactured a scenario....

 

[bloom54]

I love this post b/c it's just so raw and honest. When they returned, the G'ma believed the guy was dead (she was right). LE asked at the scene if he had been drinking or taken any drugs. He honestly told them that he had smoked a little pot very early that afternoon.

and a good prosecutor would also get the kid for leaving the scene of an accident... when, in reality, that was NOT his intention...

 

[Gabby66]

and a good prosecutor would also get the kid for leaving the scene of an accident... when, in reality, that was NOT his intention...

Funny that I scroll down and read this b/c I realized that I had forgotten to add this important detail and came back to share. The kid WAS charged with leaving the scene and that was a part of the civil case if I recall.......the dead guy's family blamed him for the death b/c he left the scene (as though a scared 19ish-year-old kid who had no clue what to do would have somehow been able to revive an already dead (I presume) man). I don't mean to sound overly sarcastic. The kid's intentions were good. He called his Grandma and was given bad advice (leave the scene and come get me ASAP. I will help). Who at that age, in that situation, would not listen to his Grandma?

 

[bloom54]

exactly!! Grandma put him at incredible risk so that she could help...



and it was one of my concerns when my kids were learning to drive... that FIRST they would take off... it's a scary thing...

Just like... these PsOI... even IF they had no culpability in LS demise... simply by not getting her help, they are guilty of something...

 

[Carmen101]

Perhaps we should all go back and watch every TV news story and read every newspaper article again to see if we can find new clues. Maybe we have all missed something. Maybe LE has.

Seems like we keep asking the same questions over and over.

I am glad the Spierers are keeping this story out there. My prayers are with them and my thoughts go out to them.

 

[Carmen101]

In the truck(s) discussion a few days ago, did anyone contact LE about the discrepancy in the back of the truck? It looked in one image as if the passenger side had a solid line on the top of the truck bed and in the other image, that solid line is disrupted by something in the truck bed. Could the driver have picked up a piece of equipment?

Also, wouldn't the most convenient place to get breakfast at that hour be the 24-hour Waffle House on College?

 

[cluciano63]

Perhaps we should all go back and watch every TV news story and read every newspaper article again to see if we can find new clues. Maybe we have all missed something. Maybe LE has.

Seems like we keep asking the same questions over and over.

I am glad the Spierers are keeping this story out there. My prayers are with them and my thoughts go out to them.

The sticking point seems to be (to me, anyway) whether or not Lauren actually set off on foot from JR's. Apparently NO ONE saw her, other than JR. Even at that hour, this seems hard to buy; a lone figure in white should have stood out to anyone driving by, walking around, or heading for the 24-hour restaurant.

Of course, the alternative theory, that the one person out at that hour, is the "bad guy" exists, but is very far-fetched to me. I wouldn't think 4:30AM would be prime time to expect to find a single woman walking on her own, even in a college town (although I know some have said it was common...really? If so, it would seem that other young woman should have vanished in a similar manner...) And the distance she would have been traveling was so short.

What LE needs and probably won't get, is someone else verifying that Lauren was out there on her own as JR says, or the opposite, that she never left the building under her own power.

JMO

 

[akh]

I think your analysis is wrong in this case. There is a girl who disappeared and no body has been found. This is not "accidental death". This is a criminal act no matter how you take it. Even if it was just an OD, it is still a crime, as someone would have supplied her with drugs and then dispose her body. Only a criminal mind would plan and dispose a body so well that it has not been discovered 3 months later after such extensive searches.

As to what you mentioned about "any parents who might suspect their child was involved would look to protect their child", if that's case, shame on them.

I'm not disputing any of that but if there was no premeditated murder, no heat of the moment violence, but rather an OD on drugs she took of her own free will (or a combination of the drugs and her medical condition) and panic set in as the rumor mill would have us believe then I'd think getting some closure would be more important than seeing to it someone has to 'pay' for what happened. Especially when you consider everything seems to be coming to a deadend otherwise.

The landfill search not finding a body, or anything apparently, would seem to be pretty telling that police are not any closer to solving this than they were June 3rd.

If the family or LE wants someone to talk they are going to have to offer them something besides the threat of prison and a lawsuit... because that's probably why there is and has been so much silence up until now. It's basically, stay quiet and stay out of trouble or talk and send yourself or a friend to prison and civil court. That isn't exactly an appealing option they are presenting. Even if some of these PsOI had nothing to do with her disappearance, but might have crucial information to add to the story of the night's activities, it's hard to imagine them coming forward with the threat of implicating themselves (or friends) into a crime (such as buying/selling/doing drugs). Let alone a crime where the prosecutor/LE might think throwing the book at them for what they've admitted to might cause them to give up someone/something about LS when in reality they don't know any more than what they've already said.

 

[JeannieC]

Lauren's Parents On The Today Show

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/44383084#44383084

 

[British]

Lauren's Parents On The Today Show

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/44383084#44383084

The most interesting info from this clip is that it is clear that only one person took a polygraph test. One could assume that this was meant as a police administered test? Earlier in the summer it had come out that JW took a polygraph test. The last one to supposedly see her walking at 4.30 AM had also taken a "private" polygraph test. That leaves the rest of the POIs as unwilling to take a test. Including the one who claimed "memory loss".

So the one million dollar question is why the POI with the "memory loss" did not take a polygraph. Another red flag right there.

 

[British]

If the family or LE wants someone to talk they are going to have to offer them something besides the threat of prison and a lawsuit... .

I dont think so. The person who did this will not talk no matter what. They would have done it by now. The only hope for the family is for other friends of this person (s) to realize how serious is the crime and to provide any info they may have, so they avoid getting in trouble themselves for obstruction of justice. What the family does is the right approach IMO.

 

[bloom54]

The most interesting info from this clip is that it is clear that only one person took a polygraph test. One could assume that this was meant as a police administered test? Earlier in the summer it had come out that JW took a polygraph test. The last one to supposedly see her walking at 4.30 AM had also taken a "private" polygraph test. That leaves the rest of the POIs as unwilling to take a test. Including the one who claimed "memory loss".

So the one million dollar question is why the POI with the "memory loss" did not take a polygraph. Another red flag right there.

I don't think it's ever been clear just who took the LE administered polygraph. We know that the following people took polys... JW, JR, CR... we KNOW that JRs was a private poly... but I don't believe we know more than that...

 

[British]

I don't think it's ever been clear just who took the LE administered polygraph. We know that the following people took polys... JW, JR, CR... we KNOW that JRs was a private poly... but I don't believe we know more than that...

Where did you see that CR took a polygraph? Have a link?

 

[imkeylime]

Perhaps we should all go back and watch every TV news story and read every newspaper article again to see if we can find new clues. Maybe we have all missed something. Maybe LE has.

Seems like we keep asking the same questions over and over.

I am glad the Spierers are keeping this story out there. My prayers are with them and my thoughts go out to them.

I thought about your post after seeing the "Today Show" clip. I still wonder what happened to LS' jacket. I've never heard of it being found. She may still have it on, but since she took her shoes off at Sports, it seems she'd have taken her jacket off, too. Plus, she didn't have it on when initially leaving SW.

We've been told she didn't use her cell after initially leaving SW, yet her cell obviously wasn't in the jacket. Maybe that's not where she kept it, I suppose. But since she lost most everything else that night (cell, shoes, keys, purse), I wonder about the jacket.

Maybe she left it at JR's on her first visit there, and it's been turned in to LE? Or maybe it was disposed of with her because it had some type of evidence on it, i.e., drug residue, DNA, etc.?

Also, the ending of the clip made me think about potential charges, even if LS died accidentally. CR, for instance, is 21 and could be charged with illegally providing alcohol, perhaps a contributing factor in her death. That may make his memory loss convenient.

 

[raeann]

The most interesting info from this clip is that it is clear that only one person took a polygraph test. One could assume that this was meant as a police administered test? Earlier in the summer it had come out that JW took a polygraph test. The last one to supposedly see her walking at 4.30 AM had also taken a "private" polygraph test. That leaves the rest of the POIs as unwilling to take a test. Including the one who claimed "memory loss".

So the one million dollar question is why the POI with the "memory loss" did not take a polygraph. Another red flag right there.

To be accurate here....Clint Van Zant is NOT INVOLVED IN THIS INVESTIGATION....so what he knows is basically NOTHING. Just because he said and I quote "to my knowledge only one person has volunteered to take a polygraph" means exactly that.....he has NO KNOWLEDGE of the case. He is a talking head who has probably never even been to this town or ever spoken to any LE officer there. So......whether or not one person or twenty have taken some type of polygraph can't be determined from this interview. The reason people don't take these tests is obvious.....they are not admissible in court because they are not scientifically reliable. If someone has memory loss then the examiner would know that answers were going to be inconclusive based on that alone.

jmo

 

[imkeylime]

The most interesting info from this clip is that it is clear that only one person took a polygraph test. One could assume that this was meant as a police administered test? Earlier in the summer it had come out that JW took a polygraph test. The last one to supposedly see her walking at 4.30 AM had also taken a "private" polygraph test. That leaves the rest of the POIs as unwilling to take a test. Including the one who claimed "memory loss".

So the one million dollar question is why the POI with the "memory loss" did not take a polygraph. Another red flag right there.

I'm thinking that CR could have provided the alcohol that night, since he's 21. If so, and if alcohol contributed to her death in any way, he'd be one to go after. I suspect he doesn't want his memory loss (if he has/had it) to go away.

Not saying that something more nefarious couldn't have happened ...

 

[bloom54]

Where did you see that CR took a polygraph? Have a link?

I'd have to go looking for it... but if you look through early entries in these threads, it's there. His attorney said he gave DNA and took a poly... we've discussed that here recently.

 

[imkeylime]

I'd have to go looking for it... but if you look through early entries in these threads, it's there. His attorney said he gave DNA and took a poly... we've discussed that here recently.

I'm curious, bloom ... I think you posted a comment about being leary of polygraphs (???). I know little about them, but Plain Jane Doe mentioned false memory syndrome the other day, which I found fascinating. Do you think it would be dangerous for someone with memory loss (i.e., CR) to take a polygraph, under those circumstances? Please feel free to not answer if this makes no sense, etc. ...

 

[Gabby66]

I thought about your post after seeing the "Today Show" clip. I still wonder what happened to LS' jacket. I've never heard of it being found. She may still have it on, but since she took her shoes off at Sports, it seems she'd have taken her jacket off, too. Plus, she didn't have it on when initially leaving SW.

We've been told she didn't use her cell after initially leaving SW, yet her cell obviously wasn't in the jacket. Maybe that's not where she kept it, I suppose. But since she lost most everything else that night (cell, shoes, keys, purse), I wonder about the jacket.

Maybe she left it at JR's on her first visit there, and it's been turned in to LE? Or maybe it was disposed of with her because it had some type of evidence on it, i.e., drug residue, DNA, etc.?

Also, the ending of the clip made me think about potential charges, even if LS died accidentally. CR, for instance, is 21 and could be charged with illegally providing alcohol, perhaps a contributing factor in her death. That may make his memory loss convenient.

I wonder about that jacket too. We've all wondered, but haven't really discussed it much, so here goes....

We know she was wearing it when she first went out. That still shot was taken in the hall before she went to JRs the first time. Perhaps she left it there before going to Sports. My guess is that she wasn't that "bad off" yet and probably grabbed it to go out for the evening. She had it together enough to grab her phone, why not her jacket?

When Lauren went to Sports, it's been guessed that she was there about 30-45 mins. Wouldn't she have removed her jacket? I think so. If so, is it really possible that she'd remember to grab it, but yet not her shoes or cell? I'd think that the latter would be more important to most girls. I would have imagined that she had left her jacket and shoes at a table, but have had her cell with her at all times in Sports (in her wristlet as most girls do). We can assume the jacket wasn't left at the bar since it wasn't mentioned with the other items. However, it's possible that it was placed in Lost and Found and no one knew it was hers early on in the investigation. Are we convinced that LE even thought to go back to Sports and ask about it? I'm not. They didn't even describe her attire correctly. It could have been a simple oversight, understandably.

IF she did remember to get the jacket, then she wore it back to 5 North. That means one of two things happened:

1. She left JR's, wearing the jacket.
2. IF she died at 5 North, whomever disposed of her body also disposed of her jacket OR they put it on her. I don't believe they would take the time to dress a dead body. I also find it hard to believe that in the heat of the moment, they'd even notice her jacket so I think they would have probably grabbed it later, meaning that it will likely not be found WITH her body.

I'd love to see the video of her in that alley. Was she wearing her jacket? If so, if/when Lauren's body is discovered, if she is clothed and wearing that jacket, then I think it would point more towards a crime after leaving 5 North. According to the timeline, she stayed at JR's for about 30 mins. I think. I just find it hard to believe that even in a stupor, she would have kept on her jacket.

Anyone?