IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #26

[OldSteve]

In my opinion #1 is very likely. I never believed the story of "memory loss". And I just read the article you had linked to in which LS's parents said they found the story of one of the POIs "laughable".

Agree about the memory loss, yet she seemed like an easy target for a random abduction.
At this point my hope is that the PI's will be able to get info LE has been unable to get.

 

[akh]

I wish I knew what definitively clears the boyfriend because no matter what problem anyone has with CR's story, he has two people that are giving him an alibi. So either a huge piece of the puzzle is missing (as far as public information) or else I don't see any way the 3 of them could not be involved together (assuming you doubt CR's story and think he must be involved). And if the 3 of them are involved in a coverup it's hard to imagine how they've left nothing for LE or the PI's to connect them to any wrong-doing. It's not like they are professional criminals with a full knowledge of all the ways they could be tracked via cells and video let alone not trip themselves up with at least the 3 of them necessary to maintain the coverup.

And correct me if I'm wrong but haven't both MB and JR spoken with the parents/PI's? I'm certain JR has reportedly done so. Again, even if CR is not talking and his story is straining credibility what would be his connection to any crime if JR's not involved? And if JR is involved then why has he cooperated at all?

Of course none of this means LE didn't drop the ball early on by not taking the situation serious enough to not let trace evidence be lost to contamination, missed, or even deletion of electronic records. Which could aid an amateur coverup.

 

[British]

I wish I knew what definitively clears the boyfriend because no matter what problem anyone has with CR's story, he has two people that are giving him an alibi. So either a huge piece of the puzzle is missing (as far as public information) or else I don't see any way the 3 of them could not be involved together (assuming you doubt CR's story and think he must be involved). And if the 3 of them are involved in a coverup it's hard to imagine how they've left nothing for LE or the PI's to connect them to any wrong-doing. It's not like they are professional criminals with a full knowledge of all the ways they could be tracked via cells and video let alone not trip themselves up with at least the 3 of them necessary to maintain the coverup.

And correct me if I'm wrong but haven't both MB and JR spoken with the parents/PI's? I'm certain JR has reportedly done so. Again, even if CR is not talking and his story is straining credibility what would be his connection to any crime if JR's not involved? And if JR is involved then why has he cooperated at all?

Of course none of this means LE didn't drop the ball early on by not taking the situation serious enough to not let trace evidence be lost to contamination, missed, or even deletion of electronic records. Which could aid an amateur coverup.

These are all good points, but there is a complicating factor. All the POIs got high power attorneys and it is unclear who and when has spoken directly to LE. That fact alone complicates any interpretation. I am convinced her boyfriend has nothing to do with it, but beyond that every scenario is possible IMO. The random abduction is the most distant and unlikely possibility IMO.

 

[akh]

I guess what I'm saying is if those 3 didn't have anything to do with her disappearance then all this focus and speculation on them is letting someone else fly under the radar. Whether that's another POI or a random stranger I don't know. I've never heard anything that would convince me the boyfriend shouldn't be considered heavily, especially if JR, CR, and MB keep leading to dead ends. Maybe they are 'lucky' at crime, maybe they are 'good' at crime, maybe LE and PI's are inept, or maybe they really are innocent.

 

[Ros]

I still have a number of questions about this case:

1. What OTHER vehicles drove through that area about the time Lauren was walking home?
2. Did JR have a guest from home or did he not?
3. Could Lauren have entered a different building on her way home? Would there have been video footage if she had done so?
4. Why were no charges filed regarding the altercation at Smallwood? Or were charges filed but the press has not reported anything?

 

[Jupiter812]

I wish I knew what definitively clears the boyfriend because no matter what problem anyone has with CR's story, he has two people that are giving him an alibi. So either a huge piece of the puzzle is missing (as far as public information) or else I don't see any way the 3 of them could not be involved together (assuming you doubt CR's story and think he must be involved). And if the 3 of them are involved in a coverup it's hard to imagine how they've left nothing for LE or the PI's to connect them to any wrong-doing. It's not like they are professional criminals with a full knowledge of all the ways they could be tracked via cells and video let alone not trip themselves up with at least the 3 of them necessary to maintain the coverup.

<Snipped>

One thing I've been thinking about is if she left 5 North with someone and this someone is who disappeared her. CR/MB/JR might be withholding the name of this person.

 

[imkeylime]

I know it is pretty much an assumed fact that she was doing coke or other drugs that night, but it really is genuinely possible she was just drinking or was slipped something.
It is also possible that she experimented that night when she usually didn't. There is a first time for everything. She was hanging out with some different people that night (according to her friends) celebrating the end of a semester away from her boyfriend...maybe she thought why not? It happens all the time. I genuinely believe her friends and parents when they say she was not a drug user/abuser. I just think it is possible that she did it every once in awhile or perhaps this was her first night.
The only thing that I can see might be gained by her parents admitting it is if the small time drug dealer rumors are true. I guess if a drug dealer was responsible following a trail of drugs may help find Lauren. Every time I imagine some random drug dealer I still keep coming back to the group of boys we know about though. I cannot clear them in my head or my heart. Not that I matter, but I cannot seem to get past who we do know in order to imagine other players who have nothing to do with who we do know.

I could buy that she wasn't a drug user but that CR shared something with her (or slipped her something) that she had a bad reaction to. Partying with a new friend or new group can put different pressures on a girl (or guy). Maybe LS usually said "no" to drugs but CR was pushing something on her, so to speak. I'm not convinced that he's involved in her ultimate disappearance, but it seems likely that he was involved in something illegal or he'd be more willing to speak. JMO.

 

[RTC]

If this is an od.....

The odd thing is that LS did not know CR before she met him at the races. I have read JR was a long time friend and a friend of her bF JW. LS never met CR through her BF or JR even though CR lived a few doors down? So if CR is involved, why would JR cover? who would JR cover for is the question? his guest???

Another thought is it possible that LS returned back to CR's apt after leaving JR's for some reason. Maybe she thought she left her purse and keys there , not remembering she left them on the railing.

 

[imkeylime]

If this is an od.....

The odd thing is that LS did not know CR before she met him at the races. I have read JR was a long time friend and a friend of her bF JW. LS never met CR through her BF or JR even though CR lived a few doors down? So if CR is involved, why would JR cover? who would JR cover for is the question? his guest???

Another thought is it possible that LS returned back to CR's apt after leaving JR's for some reason. Maybe she thought she left her purse and keys there , not remembering she left them on the railing.

So JR watched her leave and turn the corner, but then she decided to return for her things or even to crash? In other words, JR might be telling the truth (or most of it) but someone else at 5 North isn't ... or maybe even someone who isn't a POI intercepted her as she was returning or in the building? That would account for her not showing up on any cameras. I don't know what to think of CR ... because it's not just him, MB's in the apartment, too. But maybe MB would have his back? And then there's possibly JR's guest (???) from MI ...

 

[jjenny]

From everything I gather, CR himself was intoxicated that night. I really doubt he would be able to hide a body, even if he wanted to. As for LS's parents, I think the reason they suspect CR is because she didn't know him for a long time, as opposed to her friends, who her parents don't think would hurt her or wouldn't lie to them (parents).
I don't see how CR could have been involved in disappearing her, considering he isn't the last person to see her leave and he has an alibi of sorts.

 

[British]

From everything I gather, CR himself was intoxicated that night. I really doubt he would be able to hide a body, even if he wanted to. As for LS's parents, I think the reason they suspect CR is because she didn't know him for a long time, as opposed to her friends, who her parents don't think would hurt her or wouldn't lie to them (parents).
I don't see how CR could have been involved in disappearing her, considering he isn't the last person to see her leave and he has an alibi of sorts.

Then it should be very simple to clear any doubts. He could take a lie detector test and talk to the police, the PIs and LS's parents.

 

[Jupiter812]

From everything I gather, CR himself was intoxicated that night. I really doubt he would be able to hide a body, even if he wanted to. As for LS's parents, I think the reason they suspect CR is because she didn't know him for a long time, as opposed to her friends, who her parents don't think would hurt her or wouldn't lie to them (parents).
I don't see how CR could have been involved in disappearing her, considering he isn't the last person to see her leave and he has an alibi of sorts.

That be one of the reasons they suspect CR but it's not as simple as that. After all, it's clear they had/have suspicions and mistrust of JR and he and Lauren knew each other--she has been a guest at his house many times. Bloomington is small enough that a PI can easily get the skinny on CR's character. Also, don't forget his alleged behavior toward her that night according to witnesses.

 

[OldSteve]

So what are the motives ...

Long term BF gets jealous of her becoming involved with potential new BF and/or new group she's running with.

Potential new BF takes advantage when he realizes she he isn't getting anywhere.

Potential new BF isn't really interested in that, simply looking to get lucky, or take advantage of her along with others in the new group she was with.

None of the above, but all scared because they know she left to see a drug dealer and scared of repercussions to admit to association.

All scared because they know she was in an endangered state when she left - then random abduction takes place.

All scared because of they know the left her in an endangered state. No abduction takes place, she simply falls into or is pushed into in a construction pit by a homeless crazy and gets covered because she is not seen.

She passes away due to medical problem (drugs may or may not be cause) and group she is with is unaware of her medical problem and fear they will be held responsible for what they believe is a drug overdose.

 

[akh]

Then it should be very simple to clear any doubts. He could take a lie detector test and talk to the police, the PIs and LS's parents.

Lie detectors are inaccurate. He claims memory loss. Those two things right there would be a reason not to take a lie detector test. Do we even KNOW he hasn't at least spoken to the police once?

The memory loss excuse is always questionable but then in this case he has two people providing an alibi for him. And at least one of those people has spoken to the PI's and/or parents. And apparently LE can find nothing to discredit their story and thus the alibi (or if they have they haven't acted upon it for some reason).

Intoxication can lead to memory loss so even if the punch didn't lead to memory loss the alleged intoxicants surely could have. And there should be video that would show his condition at about the time necessary to help confirm this theory (or discredit it). As someone said above, if he's in a bad way due to drugs and/or drinking then it's hard to imagine his role in disposing of her body (if you want to believe that is what happened).

And lastly, he may not be talking because he may know something incriminating about himself or others that night that has absolutely nothing directly to do with her disappearance (plus he may really have memory loss that could cause him to misspeak or have false memories). But by telling it he sets himself or others up for prosecution or a civil suit as desperate parties might think he must then know more and the system could then be used to try and leverage it out of him/them. But what if he doesn't know any more about her disappearance than what he's already told?

 

[phantomthought]

From everything I gather, CR himself was intoxicated that night. I really doubt he would be able to hide a body, even if he wanted to. As for LS's parents, I think the reason they suspect CR is because she didn't know him for a long time, as opposed to her friends, who her parents don't think would hurt her or wouldn't lie to them (parents).
I don't see how CR could have been involved in disappearing her, considering he isn't the last person to see her leave and he has an alibi of sorts.

I wonder.Other than his roomates claim of having to put him to bed what info do we really have as to CR level of intoxication?While people at her apt. building have described LS as being intoxicated I do not remember anyone describing him that way.If you believe the info that was leaked of the camera footage of them leaving the apt. building there is no obvious signs of him being intoxicated.Also you do not have CR losing any of his possession's or any other odd behavior reported from that night.

 

[bx2]

They don't have to suspect CR of anything in order to be mind-numbingly frustrated that a person who may have the capability to provide valuable insight won't talk to them and says he can't remember.

We've gone on 20 some pages speculating on barely a handful of things that are known to be true; it has to be agonizing as a parent to have the possibility of new clues or information unknown to anyone but CR about that night, and he won't (or can't) budge.

 

[jjenny]

They don't have to suspect CR of anything in order to be mind-numbingly frustrated that a person who may have the capability to provide valuable insight won't talk to them and says he can't remember.

We've gone on 20 some pages speculating on barely a handful of things that are known to be true; it has to be agonizing as a parent to have the possibility of new clues or information unknown to anyone but CR about that night, and he won't (or can't) budge.

How exactly do we know that in fact he does remember? There are plenty of people that claim to have memory loss after a night of partying. Of course he claims it was from the bump on the head, but whatever it was, he certainly isn't the only one to claim memory loss after a night of partying. I am not sure what kind of info of value he would have if MB is telling the truth in that he put CR to bed and that was the end of his evening.

 

[jjenny]

I wonder.Other than his roomates claim of having to put him to bed what info do we really have as to CR level of intoxication?While people at her apt. building have described LS as being intoxicated I do not remember anyone describing him that way.If you believe the info that was leaked of the camera footage of them leaving the apt. building there is no obvious signs of him being intoxicated.Also you do not have CR losing any of his possession's or any other odd behavior reported from that night.

What info leaked out that suggested he showed no sign of intoxication? As far as I recall there was no such info. And since he was out partying that night, and had been arrested in the past for being intoxicated, I don't think its out of realm of possibility that he was intoxicated that night as well.

 

[Jupiter812]

How exactly do we know that in fact he does remember? There are plenty of people that claim to have memory loss after a night of partying. Of course he claims it was from the bump on the head, but whatever it was, he certainly isn't the only one to claim memory loss after a night of partying. I am not sure what kind of info of value he would have if MB is telling the truth in that he put CR to bed and that was the end of his evening.

His supposed amnesia did not cover the entire night, so for starters CR can tell everything that happened before 2:15 a.m.!!

He could also talk about that night, watch tapes, etc. to see if any cues jog his memory.

If the "memory loss" is due to the punch rather than alcohol he could in fact, be capable of disappearing her. And the punch could have made him volatile causing him to do harm, like strike at her causing her to drop the purse and keys.

 

[jjenny]

None of this makes sense because he has two witnesses: one (MB) claims he put him to bed. The other one (JR) apparently claims he saw her leave the building and round the corner. But whatever-try and come up with some convoluted way of how he can be involved.