Ixchel13
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creepy
IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #34
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creepy
IMH
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He's definitely not a "slender" guy! I would love to see a photo of what he looked like between 2000 - 2005? These seem to indicate they were taken in 2011?
Looks like roughly about a month after Lauren disappeared.
Lauren Spierer case: New details on police search
IMH
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Hi Ixchel13,
What to do? It's a tough, complex issue. Sex offenders' histories seem to suggest a pattern of escalation, like JW's. When there is mental illness involved, I believe on a fundamental level we (society) need to provide access to medications, treatment facilities, etc. It looks like his parents were trying to manage and help him, but our laws make it really difficult, even for family members, to get guardianships and control over those we feel need this type of oversight. The multiple arrests over many years for JW in multiple jurisdictions means that somehow I think we've screwed up in not getting him off the streets, and the treatment he clearly needs. But maybe some kind of oversight or treatment was attempted, we don't know the whole story there either.
When you have someone like DM, I am frankly surprised that he has managed to fly so low under the LE radar since he was released from prison in 1999. He had the battery charge in 2006 that was pled down to disorderly conduct. He clearly carries an ongoing resentment towards women, has anger issues, and is likely an alcoholic. It's not surprising to me that his public defender was almost immediately changed from Andrew Szakaly to Dorie Maryan (a female). We don't know the reasons behind the change, but I think that was a smart move, in that she may be able to make him seem more sympathetic to a jury (if it ever goes to trial).
What to do? It's a tough, complex issue. Sex offenders' histories seem to suggest a pattern of escalation, like JW's. When there is mental illness involved, I believe on a fundamental level we (society) need to provide access to medications, treatment facilities, etc. It looks like his parents were trying to manage and help him, but our laws make it really difficult, even for family members, to get guardianships and control over those we feel need this type of oversight. The multiple arrests over many years for JW in multiple jurisdictions means that somehow I think we've screwed up in not getting him off the streets, and the treatment he clearly needs. But maybe some kind of oversight or treatment was attempted, we don't know the whole story there either.
When you have someone like DM, I am frankly surprised that he has managed to fly so low under the LE radar since he was released from prison in 1999. He had the battery charge in 2006 that was pled down to disorderly conduct. He clearly carries an ongoing resentment towards women, has anger issues, and is likely an alcoholic. It's not surprising to me that his public defender was almost immediately changed from Andrew Szakaly to Dorie Maryan (a female). We don't know the reasons behind the change, but I think that was a smart move, in that she may be able to make him seem more sympathetic to a jury (if it ever goes to trial).
Despite his long record and what seems like obvious mental illness, it sounds like certain members of Justin Wager's family may not have believed (or maybe were in denial of) his serial flashing habit:
http://wishtv.com/2016/01/29/dad-wants-thorough-investigation-to-clear-son-in-spierer-case/
And I guess that other time, he just forgot to wear pants? oops!
http://wishtv.com/2016/01/29/dad-wants-thorough-investigation-to-clear-son-in-spierer-case/
And I guess that other time, he just forgot to wear pants? oops!
I think this is going to turn out to be a wild goose chase. I can't remember ever hearing of someone like a "serial flasher" doing things like kidnapping girls and murdering them. Seems like two completely different personality types, even though this guy does seem like a total loser.
It seems the idea that this guy's sexual offender history makes him not a candidate for a serial killer isn't exactly accurate.
http://facts.randomhistory.com/serial-killer-facts.html
In fact, based on this FBI piece, it could be speculated that the sexual offender incidents could not only be part of an escalation but a replacement methodology.
https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder
http://facts.randomhistory.com/serial-killer-facts.html
In fact, based on this FBI piece, it could be speculated that the sexual offender incidents could not only be part of an escalation but a replacement methodology.
https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder
concernedmother
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http://www.wbiw.com/local/archive/2012/12/roy-lee-ward-receives-stay-fro.php
This guy had previously had 17 arrests for indecent exposure before escalating to rape and murder.
This guy had previously had 17 arrests for indecent exposure before escalating to rape and murder.
Oh, I'm sure it happens! But I don't know, there's something about the descriptions of wagers' offenses that make him sound like a dimwit with a perverse need for attention. He yells 'hey lady' at a woman passing by and exposes himself; he rings s neighbor's doorbell with no pants on; he calls an ex hundreds of times... In all of these cases he seems to want to shock and intimidate, but he's not actually violent nor does he seem to give the slightest thought to hiding his identity or the potential consequences. While these could be the actions of someone who escalates to violence, these and other rumors about JW paint him as someone who thrives on attention and intimidation - also the characteristics of someone who might make up stories to cellmates about crimes he didn't commit.
So, once again, we wait to see if there is any actual evidence linking him to Lauren.
So, once again, we wait to see if there is any actual evidence linking him to Lauren.
OT, but skimming through this there is an interesting section at the end that describes the relationship of distrust and resentment between LE and media, and offers suggestions for a proactive media strategy for LE that would be applicable to any high profile case.
Among other things, suggestions include prompt responding to and correcting of inaccuracies reported by the media, having a strong relationship with the families of victims and using creative strategies, like official websites, to communicate with the public.
BPD, read and learn! The communication in Lauren's case started out strong but I think instead of shutting down in the face of media attention, better communication could have tamed a lot of speculation and potentially helped to obtain relevant tips from the public.
OldSteve
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I wonder if did any of his activities late at night or in early morning hours - if all of his offensives were in broad daylight, might make him more unlikely - but anything possible...
One month after Lauren goes missing, this guy threatens to make a woman go missing with out a trace in Bloomington Indiana. HE ALSO HAS SOME ARRESTS AND CONVICTIONS FOR VIOLENCE.
This is not just some prankster college kid giving you the moon.
Check Wager's record on DOXPOP.COM!
This is not just some prankster college kid giving you the moon.
Check Wager's record on DOXPOP.COM!
Mergatroid
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I wonder if any changes to medications (assuming he might be on some) could account for the variety of behaviors (ie: some meds might cause violent, aggressive response, others might cause less voilent but more flagrant behaviors). I'm definitely not an expert but it struck me as odd to think five years ago (if he were responsible for LS disappearance) that he was capable of more dangerous and violent behavior (ie: murder/abduction) and nowadays he's a serial flasher... It just seems like he would continue to escalate toward more violence. But perhaps medication has played a role. Again, I'm no expert so I don't know how these things typically play out. Thank you
Can you provide a link or summarize? What are the violent acts he was arrested and convicted for? The articles I have read detail his history of flashing and an incident where he repeatedly called and threatened an ex.
That FBI link I provided has some fairly interesting reading including talking about myths as well as different type of serial killers. It mentions that TV and movies have given us a view that isn't always realistic of their intelligence, methods, etc..
For one thing, there are both high IQ and low IQ serial killers. TV and movies present us with the highly intelligent, almost game playing killer, just daring police to catch him type. But the linked page more or less puts that into the myth category.
Also, it talks about them doing things they find erotic to lessen (or replace) the urge to kill. Which I think is a theory that could be put into play here with this guy.
After a little research I don't see this guy's history as an habitual sex offender, flasher, etc.. as something that would not fit into the background of a serial killer. Certainly, it doesn't make him one either, but it's not the type of thing that would be out of the norm and unexpected either. It's just that it's out of the norm for a TV or Movie serial killer.
And he spent time for threatening someone's life so it's not like he's above that either.
What I find odd about this latest suspect is not only the effort they put into it, apparently searching 2 properties, bringing in the FBI on at least one of the searches, and trying to obtain DNA from this guy, but that they admitted that it was directly connected to LS (and I believe they also said two other cases (or 3?). I believe not only did they say it but didn't BPD actually issue a written press release? So not just news reporters speculating or a tip led them to say this.
We've speculated it might've been because of a jailhouse informant. But then there was a jailhouse informant with DM and that seemed to go nowhere. In fact, had there not been something in some court files that a reporter dug up and saw, we still might not know of that connection. If they did make searches they didn't put out a press release about it. And no news station apparently got wind of it.
Which leads me to believe, even if there was a jailhouse informant, something about this moved it another notch up on the action list. And if they were just wanting PR to say "look, we're still investigating this case" then they had that opportunity with DM on a couple of levels (first, with the crime he's been arrested on and second and the potential for similarities, and second with the jailhouse informant we learned about). They could've played that up for PR if PR was their endgame.
So I tend to think we're still missing something they have a little more than 'just' a jailhouse informing talking.
Ixchel13
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threatening is violence
Hey, guys! Long time listener, first time caller. 
I live in Indiana and have been following this case off and on since 2011.
I am so creeped out by this JW guy. Has anyone seen this article from earlier today? http://www.idsnews.com/article/2016/02/searching-for-ties
They interview JW's dad and grandfather, who are reminiscing over childhood photos and talking about what a great kid he was (not that they sound like they truly believe that). The article then states that, "After he graduated from high school, Justin Wagers took a job with Sub-Surface of Indiana, a Morgantown, Indiana, excavation company..."
Seriously?! He was an EXCAVATOR???
I live in Indiana and have been following this case off and on since 2011. I am so creeped out by this JW guy. Has anyone seen this article from earlier today? http://www.idsnews.com/article/2016/02/searching-for-ties
They interview JW's dad and grandfather, who are reminiscing over childhood photos and talking about what a great kid he was (not that they sound like they truly believe that). The article then states that, "After he graduated from high school, Justin Wagers took a job with Sub-Surface of Indiana, a Morgantown, Indiana, excavation company..."
Seriously?! He was an EXCAVATOR???
TedMac
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Hey, guys! Long time listener, first time caller.
I am so creeped out by this JW guy. Has anyone seen this article from earlier today? http://www.idsnews.com/article/2016/02/searching-for-ties
They interview JW's dad and grandfather, who are reminiscing over childhood photos and talking about what a great kid he was (not that they sound like they truly believe that). The article then states that, "After he graduated from high school, Justin Wagers took a job with Sub-Surface of Indiana, a Morgantown, Indiana, excavation company..."
Seriously?! He was an EXCAVATOR???
Welcome to Websleuths and a very good first post! :welcome6:
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