Is Terri's Odd Behavior Part of Her Plan?

[Cheewawa007]

I read one post, give a thanks... scroll to the next (totally opposite of the previous one), give a thanks. I am all over the fence so I think I'll just throw a cheek on either side, sit up here (on the fence) and read for a spell. GO TEAMS!!!!!!!

 

[Aedrys]

I think this was a serious miscalculation on TH's part. I think she expected KH to defend her, maybe even DY/TY. I think she figured a liar does not equal a murderer, and never figured that all three would turn on her. Like another case, she has gotten away with so much for so long that she came to believe she could get away with this. I think she has been furious at the turn on her, and has been lashing out ever since with bizarre behavior. She knew with the RO and divorce papers that she was losing everything, especially with the landscaper plot being unearthed - which I think was a stupid mistake on her part that came back to bite her. I think she's been trying to embarrass and enrage KH especially and DY/TY to a lesser extent since then. I think emotionally she is stuck in high school, and this behavior is very much high school revenge type behavior.

There's no confirmation on anything, but altogether, it looks like a woman who knows she is going down, who didn't see this coming at all, and who is going to make other people pay for making her go down. It doesn't matter whom she has to use either to do it.

Maybe now that she's with her parents, the rage will calm down and she will be less [unusual]. Or, it might get worse if her attorney doesn't have control of her. I don't think this woman has the same boundaries as a normal person does, in fact, there seems to be very little boundaries if at all here, which is very scary and alarming because it means she cares little about her actions and the results of her actions.

 

[mysteriew]

IANAL, but my understanding is that yes, the judge could have granted it based on the sworn testimony of Kaine alone, because it was an emergency hearing, and Terri was not there to refute it. There is another 'full' hearing (non-emergency hearing - I'm not sure what you call this second hearing as opposed to the emergency hearing) where more evidence will be necessary, and Terri or her representative will have a chance to refute the evidence, should they choose to do so.

My understand is that neither Terri nor a representative was there for her, and that the landscaper was not there either.

The MFH plot is he-said, she-said, that is, I haven't seen anything that indicates there is any evidence it happened other than reportedly, the landscaper's word to LE. Terri's reaction to the reported 'sting' - calling 911 - speaks in her favor IMO.

It should also be noted that a hearing for the restraining order is different than a hearing for a criminal matter. There is a different standard of proof. In a criminal matter, evidence must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. But in other hearings, it is more like reasonably certain. So in a he said/she said situation the judge will go with who he believes is more likely to be right or he will go with the most prudent action. In this case, with a claim from an unrelated party that he was solicited to do a hit on the husband, and considering the fact that she was the last person to be seen with the husband's missing child.... I am fairly certain that the restraining order will be granted.

 

[sneezy]

You know, the thing that really bothers me? The thing that sticks in my crawl?

The lies. To me, this is more indicitive of TH's true nature than any accusations of MFH or Adultry.

Why?

Because, my kid or not, I would DO ANYTHING to bring him back, ANYTHING...Lying just shows that she has something to hide. People who are innocent don't have anything to hide.

Even if she would be lying to say cover an affair....I still don't think that if she didn't have something "really" important to hide about Kyron's disappearance...she would have just told the truth about everthing.

This is what really makes me think she's got something to hide.

MFH? We don't know enough...and if true, yes it puts the spotlight more on her character....

but RIGHT NOW...all we "know" is that she lied about where she was that day, it doesn't match with her cell phone pings, and her lie detector tests...she failed=showed deception--she walked out in the middle of one--and failed another....

Add that to the fact she's "not cooperating" and my "Hinky" meter goes off....something is very wrong here and I'm afraid for Kyron.

:cow:

 

[Chewy]

I don't think her behaviour is any more odd then anyone else's behaviour when under a microscope. Somethings I am not even sure really occured like the MFH. The sexting I think was just as much MC's behaviour, and I figure he was taking advantage of a vulnerable woman and looking for his 15 minutes. I can only imagine what everyone else has been doing for the last few years, and if it went public how shocked some would be ? Just imagine yourself one day, a tragedy like this strikes, and you fail your LTD. What will they find out about you ? How odd are you going to look?

I was thinking along the same lines. For the last few months I've been really stressed in teaching adult students tons and tons of information for the GREs. My brain has been on super overload. To relieve stress I've found myself looking into disaster stories on youtube. If you tracked me for the last three months you'd see, frustration with a child due to reinrolling him in public school after a bout of an unsuccessful homeschool period, (CPS actually was involved in my trying to put him back in public school so close to the end of the school year) all my kids were investigated because of the delay and the case was closed. You'd see me going to bars on a regular basis because I tutor privately and during the early afternoon the only quiet place I've been able to find are pubs (Libraries have too many toddlers and young children so it's noisey and starbucks is too busy and filled with teenagers) pubs are basically empty from 12-3.

You'd see an unhealthy obsession with air plane disasters, research into what happens to a body after an airplane crash, you'd see true crime cases and now Websleuths with child abduction cases.

You'd see text messages to people that sounded sarcastic and funny to me but could be taken wrong by others.

You'd see some difficulty with my ex husband and screaming match between me and sister in Atlantic City.

Now imagine one of my kids (god forbid) having something happen. What kind of person would I look like to you all? Imagine that would be all you knew about me. I'd look like some stressed out, death obsessed, bar hopping lunatic who had CPS at the house to investigate the well being of my children.

But that's not me at all. (I promise :truce

 

[Day Dreamer]

Quick question - would the judge have granted the restraining order if there was no evidence of the MFH plot? Would he have done this just based on the word of the landscaper, or would he/she have required some other evidence first? I'm trying to come up with a list of definite odd behaviors that are not just he-said/she-said, and the MFH plot is a big one, but LE hasn't indicated if there's evidence of it or not, so I've been assuming it's just based on the landscaper's word - but would that have been enough to support all of the recent legal actions against Terri?

Odd behaviors list I have so far:

MFH plot (assuming there is evidence of such which hasn't yet been released to the public.)

Showing up at the gym asking about Kyron and Baby K.

Telling the reporters that everything is ok after Kaine had already moved out (acting like she was blindsided, but I don't think she was being truthful).

Posting on FB that she's "hitting the gym" shortly after Kyron disappeared.

Sexting with one of Kaine's former friends, who I think (correct me if I'm wrong?) was one of the people running the website for Kyron, also shortly after Kyron's disappearance.

3 polygraphs, which include failure and walking out in the middle of one of them.

Not once coming out to the public with a statement claiming her innocence! (this is the biggest one for me!)

Voluntarily surrendering custody of Baby K, the house, etc. without a fight (do innocent people do this? I find it odd), yet asking for money from Kaine.

Being untruthful about her whereabouts on the day Kyron went missing (was it Kaine or LE who confirmed this?) - her cell phone pings and credit card usage not matching where she said she was.

Am I missing anything?

BBM I would love to know the answer to this too. One reason that I believe it to be true was that the judge issued a RO partially based on this. I believe it was the main reason for the RO and Terri losing custody of her baby. It makes me wonder if LE had a discussion w/ the judge and let the judge know what evidence they had or why they believed it was true.

I also found it odd that Terri hired a landscaper w/out her husband's knowledge. I mean, if Kaine didn't know did the landscaper actually do any landscaping work?

I am also bothered by the fact that everyone has pointedly accused Terri and she has still remained silent. If it were me and I was innocent I'd be outraged and definitely giving a statement ... she could issue a statement through her attorney.

 

[mysteriew]

You know, the thing that really bothers me? The thing that sticks in my crawl?

The lies. To me, this is more indicitive of TH's true nature than any accusations of MFH or Adultry.

Why?

Because, my kid or not, I would DO ANYTHING to bring him back, ANYTHING...Lying just shows that she has something to hide. People who are innocent don't have anything to hide.

Even if she would be lying to say cover an affair....I still don't think that if she didn't have something "really" important to hide about Kyron's disappearance...she would have just told the truth about everthing.

This is what really makes me think she's got something to hide.

MFH? We don't know enough...and if true, yes it puts the spotlight more on her character....

but RIGHT NOW...all we "know" is that she lied about where she was that day, it doesn't match with her cell phone pings, and her lie detector tests...she failed=showed deception--she walked out in the middle of one--and failed another....

Add that to the fact she's "not cooperating" and my "Hinky" meter goes off....something is very wrong here and I'm afraid for Kyron.

:cow:

Yeah any lying always gets to me too. It doesn't matter what else is going on in your life, a kid is missing. And in her case, she was the last one seen with the kid. So she has to know that LE is gonna be looking at her closely. Her best bet would have been to tell LE everything up to and including the time she felt bad because she ignored something about Kyron that she should have been paying attention to.

It is a matter of priorities. Which is most important here? The keeping of a secret or the finding of the child? And the lying can indicate having more knowlege than what you are admitting to.

A caregiver almost always feels a certain amt of guilt when something goes wrong with a kid. If a kid falls and hurts himself, they feel guilty that they weren't watching him closely enough. But most caregivers would express that guilt, just because they know down deep that it was really an accident. But a caregiver who knows that they weren't where they said they were at the time or who actually pushed the child, now they will deny any guilt at all. They have more knowlege than they are admitting to. And they have something to hide.

 

[Day Dreamer]

The problem is, almost all of our indicators of what her behavior has or has not been has come through second-hand sources.

She "hits the gym" - Some found it odd, others not so much

She doesn't post Kyron's pic as her profile one on FB as quickly as some other family members do - again, not so much a red flag for me.

She was the last KNOWN to have seen Kyron - not odd for me as his primary caregiver.

She may or may not have had a yelled conversation in a busy gym with a teacher regarding an upcoming doctor appointment/absence - not abnormal to me, I have done similar myself.

LE states that a landscaper she was in contact with in fall 2009 claims she tried to hire him to murder her husband - more than odd IF true - I find this claim not credible at this juncture. Not that I disbelieve LE, I think they believe wholeheartedly that this man makes this claim. I do not believe LE has been able to substantiate one word of it.

She has, according to LE, engaged in a series of "sextual" communications with MC, who claims these contacts only started in the days AFTER Kyron went missing - I believe the sexting was occurring, however, I do not find MC claim that they only began recently is at all credible. Either way, would it be behavior I would engage in, uh, no. Do I find it odd enough to throw her in jail and lose the key? Nope. If they start throwing people in jail for bad judgment and bad taste let me know. I've got candidates aplenty.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, in innitial pressers she either blinked too much or not enough (sorry, I can't recall) - Unless she was blinking in morse code, I don't read anything into how she blinked on camera.

have I forgotten anything else that set off some oddmeters?

ETA - ALL OF THE ABOVE said, I am starting to have my doubts about Terri, but am awaiting some sort of EVIDENCE before falling off the fence on either side.

ETA later: one more thing folks call odd, the supposed cel phone pings on Sauvie Island. Is there any known statement from LE to substantiate this claim or just anonymous sources in blogs and news reports?

BBM tlcox, you make a lot of good points. I completely respect you for keeping an open mind too. That is often hard to do. I have tried to do the same; but, I will admit I am more leaning towards Terri's guilt of something (not sure what exactly). With that said, if some new evidence came to light that exonerated Terri I would be more than willing to say I was wrong and consider the new evidence.

Everyone is not going to have the same opinions or are going to feel the same way about the developments that are coming to light. That is the way it needs to be though because if Terri is innocent she does not deserve to be rail roaded.

 

[tlcya]

TY DayDreamer for your comments. There are many of us who are trying very hard to stay objective and open-minded, maybe to a fault, about Terri. I think it is my natural instinct to bet on the underdog, combined with my fear of being judgmental and jumping to conclusions that keeps me on the fence as long as I have been. I would just not be able to forgive myself if I assasinated someone's character (albeit somewhat anonymously over the net) if she is not involved with Kyron's disappareance. I may very well have felt diferently had not people been so quick to condemn her from the getgo. Had she not seemed so vilified - so quickly I may not have felt so strong a conviction to give her that benefit of the doubt.

Depends on which day you catch me, which side of the fence I am perched upon but I never manage to put my foot down definitively on one side or another. I appreciate everyone's patience on both sides of the issue as I try to figure out where I will land on this case.

 

[Chewy]

I would like to suggest this as playing devils advocate.

If you knew that you had absolutely nothing to do with this kid being missing and yet knew you had all sorts of crappy, illegal and messed up behavior that once revealed to the cops would totally confuse the investigation and take it off track, then you might not talk about such things simply because you KNOW you are innocent and you will be creating a false lead.

On the other hand she should fess up any and everything that she knows will eventually come out if she has nothing to do with it.

On the other hand doing so paints her more and more as a suspect so maybe the best thing she ought to do is shut up.?

 

[WhyaDuck?]

I, in my glass house, am certainly in no position to toss rocks at others for "odd behaviour."

I agree that I would not have made many of the decisions TH was reported to have done... but different strokes for different folks. Or, chacun à son goût, to put it more fancy like.

As to whether her behaviour is part of a master plan... Without knowing what she did, I find it hard to judge what is part of her plan, since we don't even know for sure there was a plan, KWIM?

So... That's a useless answer, but that sums it up for me.

 

[nursebeeme]

imhoo Terri's behavior is not "part" of her "plan" but indicative of her "part" in what happened to Kyron.

Again moo.

 

[kathryann]

You know, the thing that really bothers me? The thing that sticks in my crawl?

The lies. To me, this is more indicitive of TH's true nature than any accusations of MFH or Adultry.

Why?

Because, my kid or not, I would DO ANYTHING to bring him back, ANYTHING...Lying just shows that she has something to hide. People who are innocent don't have anything to hide.

Even if she would be lying to say cover an affair....I still don't think that if she didn't have something "really" important to hide about Kyron's disappearance...she would have just told the truth about everthing.

This is what really makes me think she's got something to hide.

MFH? We don't know enough...and if true, yes it puts the spotlight more on her character....

but RIGHT NOW...all we "know" is that she lied about where she was that day, it doesn't match with her cell phone pings, and her lie detector tests...she failed=showed deception--she walked out in the middle of one--and failed another....

Add that to the fact she's "not cooperating" and my "Hinky" meter goes off....something is very wrong here and I'm afraid for Kyron.

:cow:

Wow, I keep swaying back and forth about what REALLY happened and who is responsible. I think one day someone grabbed him, but then when I read your post you are absolutely right, what would be the reason for the lies? If she didn't tell the truth because she thought it would make her look bad, she looks bad or maybe worse than telling the truth, if she didn't tell the truth because she was afraid she was going to lose her kids, she lost her kids, husband and home, so why would she be lying to protect someone? She doesn't seem the type to protect anyone else besides herself. So exactly why IS she lying? By the way, I would love to actually hear her speak.

 

[Donjeta]

I don't really see the point of a plan that makes her look a bit off in the eyes of a lots of people. If I was a devious, evil woman out to torture my husband I'd try to be very vocal and active in the search and absolutely appropriate but when we're alone I would whisper things that make him wonder but that I can deny later. "I know what happened." "I did it." "It was me" and he thinks I'm talking about his son but I'll tell him I meant who ate the last slice of ham. And when he speaks out about me I'd tell the reporter sadly but lovingly that he's going a bit mad with the stress of the disappearance and is getting some paranoid feelings, and I've been trying to get him some medical help.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Who defines what "odd" really means? "Odd", to me is something you often don't see. She isn't odd just because I may not approve of her behavior and wouldn't do the things she supposedly has done. That is being "different" from me not "odd."

It is very hard to even determine Terri's behaviors when I have never even seen her speak one word.

It seems like she got through her life ok for most of her 40 years except one hiccup back in 2005 when she got the DUI. So I don't see her as person who is unable to conform to society. Her multiple marriages unfortunately aren't odd at all nowadays but more of the norm.

A lot of things about Terri does seem quite normal. Giving of her time to volunteer at Kyron's school for almost three years. Taking all three children to swim classes and other functions. Going on vacation with her family and most of them seemed to be children oriented. Even taking care of Kyron from the time he was a toddler until he went missing. Others that know her saying she was a loving doting mother.

As far as the sexting with MC, unfortunately again, I think her behavior may be more normal than some suspect. I do know some men and woman who have done some very bizarre things when their spouse filed for divorce and moved out. Maybe it was Terri's hurt, anger, pride that made her do this or the tremendous stress or just wanting to forget that her life was going to h8ll in a hand basket for a moment or two. Maybe it was to reassure her that she didn't need Kaine anymore and she could replace him in a heartbeat. So I don't think her behavior on this part is odd.

All I know is Terri Horman has lived for 40 years and now we only get a tiny glimpse of who she has been all of that time. I do not think a 6 weeks window defines who someone really is especially when we have only learned one side and until the other side is known then the real truth will never be known.

As far as not speaking out to the media. I dont find that odd either. This woman is not stupid and she knew from the get go the media and LE were trying to pin this on her.

IMO

 

[Paintr]

Who defines what "odd" really means? "Odd", to me is something you often don't see. She isn't odd just because I may not approve of her behavior and wouldn't do the things she supposedly has done. That is being "different" from me not "odd."

It is very hard to even determine Terri's behaviors when I have never even seen her speak one word.

It seems like she got through her life ok for most of her 40 years except one hiccup back in 2005 when she got the DUI. So I don't see her as person who is unable to conform to society. Her multiple marriages unfortunately aren't odd at all nowadays but more of the norm.

A lot of things about Terri does seem quite normal. Giving of her time to volunteer at Kyron's school for almost three years. Taking all three children to swim classes and other functions. Going on vacation with her family and most of them seemed to be children oriented. Even taking care of Kyron from the time he was a toddler until he went missing. Others that know her saying she was a loving doting mother.

As far as the sexting with MC, unfortunately again, I think her behavior may be more normal than some suspect. I do know some men and woman who have done some very bizarre things when their spouse filed for divorce and moved out. Maybe it was Terri's hurt, anger, pride that made her do this or the tremendous stress or just wanting to forget that her life was going to h8ll in a hand basket for a moment or two. Maybe it was to reassure her that she didn't need Kaine anymore and she could replace him in a heartbeat. So I don't think her behavior on this part is odd.

All I know is Terri Horman has lived for 40 years and now we only get a tiny glimpse of who she has been all of that time. I do not think a 6 weeks window defines who someone really is especially when we have only learned one side and until the other side is known then the real truth will never be known.

As far as not speaking out to the media. I dont find that odd either. This woman is not stupid and she knew from the get go the media and LE were trying to pin this on her.

IMO

Hitting the thanks button wasn't enough.

I have no idea if Terri harmed/disappeared/killed/abducted Kyron. So far I have seen no evidence...a lot of guesses, media bombshells, personal opinions...but no evidence to sway me either way. I wish LE would tell the public something, because this fence is getting hard after 6 weeks and I just want Kyron to be found! :banghead:

 

[Paintr]

I don't really see the point of a plan that makes her look a bit off in the eyes of a lots of people. If I was a devious, evil woman out to torture my husband I'd try to be very vocal and active in the search and absolutely appropriate but when we're alone I would whisper things that make him wonder but that I can deny later. "I know what happened." "I did it." "It was me" and he thinks I'm talking about his son but I'll tell him I meant who ate the last slice of ham. And when he speaks out about me I'd tell the reporter sadly but lovingly that he's going a bit mad with the stress of the disappearance and is getting some paranoid feelings, and I've been trying to get him some medical help.

Wow! Donjeta! Remind me never to get on your bad side. LOL! You are sneaky!

 

[grayjay]

There is something about these behaviors that do seem to contribute to thinking there's a possibility that Kyron is still alive. It certainly could be a way of taunting, too. Her demeanor and her not saying anything come closer in my mind to those I'd expect from a ransom, too. If there was one, I wonder if we'd know, and I doubt it.

Kyron, little guy, where are you?

 

[pinkpuddytat]

IANAL, but my understanding is that yes, the judge could have granted it based on the sworn testimony of Kaine alone, because it was an emergency hearing, and Terri was not there to refute it. There is another 'full' hearing (non-emergency hearing - I'm not sure what you call this second hearing as opposed to the emergency hearing) where more evidence will be necessary, and Terri or her representative will have a chance to refute the evidence, should they choose to do so.

My understand is that neither Terri nor a representative was there for her, and that the landscaper was not there either.

The MFH plot is he-said, she-said, that is, I haven't seen anything that indicates there is any evidence it happened other than reportedly, the landscaper's word to LE. Terri's reaction to the reported 'sting' - calling 911 - speaks in her favor IMO.

Problem is, she hasn't made any effort to fight the emergency RO, and her attorney seems to have indicated she doesn't plan to any time soon.

Emergency orders go both ways. SHE could have countered with a request for an emergency order granting at least supervised visits with Baby K, on the grounds that it would be seriously traumatizing to Baby K to abruptly lose all contact with her mother and lifelong primary caregiver.

The fact that she hasn't made any effort to get even supervised visits tells me she has no expectation of ever having even partial custody of Baby K again. Many posters have pointed out that her attorney wouldn't want her answering questions related to potential future criminal charges against her, but I don't see that as any obstacle at all to requesting supervised visits. She can answer questions by saying her attorney has advised her not to answer -- that still wouldn't provide grounds for a judge to deny *supervised* visits with Baby K. Supervised visits could have an armed police officer present for security, if the judge felt it necessary, in addition to the usual social worker.

It would be very hard for a judge to justify denying securely supervised visits, when the mother requesting them is still being allowed to run around free in society. If anybody is alleging that she's *so* dangerously unstable that she might try to violently harm or abduct Baby K even when there's an armed police officer in the room, and the judge is buying this, the judge would have to ask how it can be safe for the general public or family and acquaintances of Terri's, to have her running around loose -- and somebody with some credibility would have to provide a convincing answer.

But given the procedural circumstances, the judge can't give her supervised visits unless she formally asks for them. I suspect her attorney's real reason for advising her against doing this is that he thinks she's so unstable that she might just start blurting out information in a hearing, even with her attorney present and having previously given her careful guidance on how to handle provocative questioning. And that suggests that he's worried that there's information that she could blurt out that would contribute to her being convicted of a crime. And it's hard for me to see how that could be a concern if she hasn't actually committed any crime.

 

[Day Dreamer]

There is something about these behaviors that do seem to contribute to thinking there's a possibility that Kyron is still alive. It certainly could be a way of taunting, too. Her demeanor and her not saying anything come closer in my mind to those I'd expect from a ransom, too. If there was one, I wonder if we'd know, and I doubt it.

Kyron, little guy, where are you?

Excellent point. If Terri handed Kyron off to someone and knows he is safe then her behavior does not look so odd. She would not be worried about his safety. I also agree that it could be her way of taunting KH. What other types of things has she said that we know nothing about? Has anything she said to KH, DY, or TY lead them to be suspicious?

I also wondered if there were a ransom. I'm not sure LE would have told us if there had been.

Terri's lying, being uncooperative w/ LE (I fully believe LE is trying to play the good cop / bad cop thing here and is letting the other 3 parents be the bad cops) and her silence as far as refusing to tell what happened or where Kyron is if she is responsible could be her way of taunting the other 3.

Of course, we have heard that lying is nothing new for her. Reminds me of Casey Anthony ... another pathological liar; so, how can one possibly believe anything they do say?