Is there any possibility of a Plea Deal on the Murder Charges?

[semisweet]

I don't believe there's a chance that Casey will take the stand if/when this goes to trial. Her lawyers would never let that happen. She'd be such an easy target, the prosecution would have a field day with her. And there's no way she could 'tell her story' because it's completely based on ever changing lies.

If she were to take a plea though, which I would think would be for LWP instead of death, I wonder if part of the deal would specify that she would have to tell the court what she did, in detail. The truth, or as close to the truth as anyone would be able to get from her. Verifiable facts...... Now THAT is something I would love to hear.

 

[chaingangal]

Casey, with the help of her brilliant legal team has no choice but to fight the charges at this point. The emphatic denials in the media of "my client is not guilty" kind of boxed in the damsel in distress.

 

[logicalgirl]

Sorry I was doing 2 things at once. What I meant was that he can't take a plea on her behalf. She needs to understand everything and she and only she can make the decision to plea out if an offer is on the table. It doesn't matter what is going on with her attorney the decision to plea is her own, assuming there is a plea to take. The judge will ask her if she understand what she is doing and if she is taking it for any reason other than being guilty to the extent of the plea . the answers better be yes and no respectively or he may not even accept it.

That makes two of us doing things all at once - and to clarify - yes, I understand that. :blushing:

 

[logicalgirl]

I don't believe there's a chance that Casey will take the stand if/when this goes to trial. Her lawyers would never let that happen. She'd be such an easy target, the prosecution would have a field day with her. And there's no way she could 'tell her story' because it's completely based on ever changing lies.

If she were to take a plea though, which I would think would be for LWP instead of death, I wonder if part of the deal would specify that she would have to tell the court what she did, in detail. The truth, or as close to the truth as anyone would be able to get from her. Verifiable facts...... Now THAT is something I would love to hear.

I'd love to hear our legal experts opinions on that - I wonder if it is something she actually has to state, herself in her own words, what she did to Caylee, or if her lawyer can do it for her like the cheque fraud trial, where she was just agreeing to what she agreed to.

 

[chaingangal]

If the states case is all it should be (given the amount of forensic and circumstantial evidence) would any plea less than a guilty plea be accepted?

 

[Kentjbkent]

I am becoming more certain that there will be a plea deal for the murder charges.

Ya know, JBean.....I am right there with you now (after today). There have been a few things that have had me :waitasec::waitasec: for a while now....like where the heck is Ms. Baden, the depositions, the witness list, the discovery, and so on...and so on...

After today, I am wondering if we are going to see something similar in the murder trial...

Today, we saw that the SA offered 5 years with adj....

Baez decided to take the plea to JS and tried to argue discrimination, etc...

I wonder if SA offered LWOP..

if Baez will do the same and then AL will argue mitigating factors to try to convince JS to reduce the sentence from LWOP...???

May be why Baden has virtually disappeared...she is no longer needed to argue the forensics, and if you look at the recently released visitor's log, all attorney visits seem to have to do with mitigation....???

 

[JBean]

If the states case is all it should be (given the amount of forensic and circumstantial evidence) would any plea less than a guilty plea be accepted?

guilty of what specifically?

 

[ZsaZsa]

I don't believe there's a chance that Casey will take the stand if/when this goes to trial. Her lawyers would never let that happen. She'd be such an easy target, the prosecution would have a field day with her. And there's no way she could 'tell her story' because it's completely based on ever changing lies.

If she were to take a plea though, which I would think would be for LWP instead of death, I wonder if part of the deal would specify that she would have to tell the court what she did, in detail. The truth, or as close to the truth as anyone would be able to get from her. Verifiable facts...... Now THAT is something I would love to hear.

It would be a pack of lies. Whatever story she thought sounded plausible at the time. Just like the rest of her life.

 

[Just Jayla]

I am becoming more certain that there will be a plea deal for the murder charges.

Me, too-Just little things here and there, nuances, demeanors-Things are becoming slightly more subdued. And experts are disappearing.

 

[cloud9]

I've been thinking. The state has done so much work in this case. Why would they even consider offering/accepting a deal? They seem very confident of getting a guilty verdict.

Thanks!

 

[logicalgirl]

I've been thinking. The state has done so much work in this case. Why would they even consider offering/accepting a deal? They seem very confident of getting a guilty verdict.

Thanks!

I think just to get it over with? There doesn't seem to be any question of a guilty verdict despite all of Baez's blowing - but I think the defense and Casey might be and should be concerned about the DP. So the defense may be able to convince Casey she isn't going to win this case, and LWOP or 40 + years WOP might be better than the DP.

I also would be really surprised if a plea is offered or accepted before the trial starts, but as the evidence gets underway, Casey may be ready for an about face, and be ready to accept a plea (provided the State will offer one of course) IMO

 

[Melanie]

The only plea I can see here is LWOP or the DP. If she admits to killing Caylee, she should still get life. If she keeps her trap shut, then the pros should take it all the way to death.

Just my opinion.

Mel

 

[Kentjbkent]

I've been thinking. The state has done so much work in this case. Why would they even consider offering/accepting a deal? They seem very confident of getting a guilty verdict.

Thanks!

Pure speculation on my part, but while I do believe that SA is very confident in their case and getting a guilty verdict, I also believe they are experienced enough to know that there is no guarantee :banghead:

And while I do believe that they believe that the death penalty is warranted, I am sure they are probably aware that it is, and will probably always be, a very controversial issue.

I would not be surprised if they would be willing to save the taxpayers of Florida the expense of this continuing investigation and trial if they KNEW that
KC would never walk freely in society again.

I do not believe they would be willing to reduce to manslaughter for 25 - 35 years, but I do think it is possible they would be willing to at least offer LWOP....

 

[JBean]

I've been thinking. The state has done so much work in this case. Why would they even consider offering/accepting a deal? They seem very confident of getting a guilty verdict.

Thanks!

They will still get a guilty verdict with a plea, it is just a deal made ahead of time so everyone gets something. The cost of a trial is expensive and there is always the risk that a jury will find her sympathetic and not convict her of first degree murder and aggravated child abuse. I personally think that since they cannot show a cause of death with medical certainty it might be hard to show premeditated murder. She may be found guilty of a lesser included offense anyway . So, they may want to cut all risks and offer a plea of guilty to voluntary manslaughter and aggravated child abuse, which carry substantial penalties.
The state may feel that their case is 100% solid and offer a plea of guilty to first degree with a life sentence. KC would have her life spared and that may be the only concession she may be offered. (These scenarios are just some of the possibilities of course)

So the notion of the state possibly offering a plea is not for KC's benefit, it is for the benefit of the state in that they are assured a conviction and have some "control" as to what her consequences are. Of course it is up to the judge to bless.

 

[JBean]

Pure speculation on my part, but while I do believe that SA is very confident in their case and getting a guilty verdict, I also believe they are experienced enough to know that there is no guarantee :banghead:

And while I do believe that they believe that the death penalty is warranted, I am sure they are probably aware that it is, and will probably always be, a very controversial issue.

I would not be surprised if they would be willing to save the taxpayers of Florida the expense of this continuing investigation and trial if they KNEW that
KC would never walk freely in society again.

I do not believe they would be willing to reduce to manslaughter for 25 - 35 years, but I do think it is possible they would be willing to at least offer LWOP....

I THINK the sentence for aggravated child abuse alone can be up to 30 years or something really substantial. I think premeditated murder will be tough and a lesser offense might not be so crazy.

 

[JBean]

You never know. These cases are not posted as a comparison, and circumstances are surely different..but just to say you can never be sure.

SEBRING - It took roughly three-and-a-half hours for a Highlands County jury to find Edgar Otero guilty of the lesser offense of manslaughter in connection with the November 2007 death of 3-month-old Alexa Hall, the daughter of his former girlfriend.
Otero, 31, was also found guilty of aggravated child abuse. He faces up to 15 years for manslaughter and 30 years for the abuse charge.
Otero, 31, was originally charged with first-degree murder and aggravated child abuse.
http://www2.highlandstoday.com/content/2010/jan/14/141625/jury-deliberates-verdict-baby-death-case/


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Judge declares mistrial in case of man accused of killing toddler


Seminole judge declared a mistrial early Saturday in the case of a man who is charged with killing his girlfriend's son.

A jury deliberated for seven hours Friday night and Saturday morning until reporting about 3 a.m. that they were deadlocked in the case of Jason Lenz, who had been charged with felony murder and aggravated child abuse. Circuit judge Debra S. Nelson declared a mistrial.

Defense attorney Richard Hornsby argued that the death of Anthony Jesy "A.J." Cabral, 2, was an accident. Lenz told Seminole deputies that he was carrying Anthony when he tripped and dropped the boy, cracking the boy's skull.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/crime/os-lenz-mistrial-20100116,0,5838456.story

 

[Amil]

After today's acceptance of adjudication of guilt, she realizes how quickly 5 years turned into time-served. She will be convinced by Lyon that she will get a lesser sentence with admitting guilt before the judge rather than a jury trial. There have been no depositions by her attorneys and Baden is absent. The way Lyon can avoid the death penalty sentence and get another notch on her belt is by convincing her client that pleading guilty before the judge is beneficial to her. She'll get 25-40 years and not death. Sort of a win-win?

 

[denjet]

Here's another case where basically the boyfriend went to prison for 60 years for the murder and the mother for her shared responsibility ... she got 30 years for not protecting the child from the boyfriend ... he was charged with aggravated manslaughter and aggravated child abuse which are the lesser charges Casey faces ...

A Cape Coral woman has been sentenced to 30 years in prison for the death of her young son.

A Lee County judge gave 34-year-old Nicole Brewington the maximum sentence for her crime on Tuesday. A jury found her guilty of aggravated manslaughter of a child in October.

The woman's former boyfriend, 32-year-old Kashon Scott, is already serving a 60-year prison sentence after being convicted in 2008 of aggravated manslaughter and aggravated child abuse in the beating death of 3-year-old Zahid Jones Jr.

Prosecutors argued that Brewington shared blame in the death because she ignored a court order by allowing Scott back into her home Memorial Day weekend 2007 to take care of her children.

Nicole Brewington tearfully hugged and kissed her children after being sentenced Tuesday to a maximum 30 years in prison for doing nothing to prevent the death of her 3-year-old son.

I would hope the state would not accept anything less than 50 years ... and she would have to plead guilty to the two lesser charges ... but that might not be the way it works ...
I just don't think the defense has that much bargaining power if the state's case is solid ...

But, like JBean said, there's always the fact of money and resources to take it to trial, strength of the state's case, etc.

 

[Leila]

Sorry I was doing 2 things at once. What I meant was that he can't take a plea on her behalf. She needs to understand everything and she and only she can make the decision to plea out if an offer is on the table. It doesn't matter what is going on with her attorney the decision to plea is her own, assuming there is a plea to take. The judge will ask her if she understand what she is doing and if she is taking it for any reason other than being guilty to the extent of the plea . the answers better be yes and no respectively or he may not even accept it.

If Casey fully understands, and it's up to AL and JB to both discuss all possible outcomes with her and make sure she understands, and Casey makes the decision to make a plea, I think a plea bargain in this case would be the best possible outcome.

If a plea bargain is reached and accepted by the judge, the trial is over and done with for all time. There are no appeals in a plea bargained case.

 

[JBean]

If Casey fully understands, and it's up to AL and JB to both discuss all possible outcomes with her and make sure she understands, and Casey makes the decision to make a plea, I think a plea bargain in this case would be the best possible outcome.

If a plea bargain is reached and accepted by the judge, the trial is over and done with for all time. There are no appeals in a plea bargained case.

In the cases where ineffective counsel can be proven, this can be grounds to negate the waiver of an appeal that is included in a plea agreement. i would imagine the bar is pretty high.
Now while this is the case here in CA but I do not know anything about Florida.

Here is a CA recent case

Okay here is an appellate ruling in Florida that supports IAC as possible grounds to withdraw a plea agreement:

We find the trial court’s lack of further inquiry to be error. In this case where the appellant/defendant had asserted an ineffective assistance of counsel, and specifically alleges that he was misled, the trial court should conduct a Nelson inquiry to determine if there exists a basis for appellant/defendant’s ineffective assistance of counsel claim. If the trial court finds no basis, then the appellant/defendant is not entitled to a new lawyer and there is no reason to vacate the appellant/defendant’s plea herein. If the trial court after conducting inquiry finds that in fact there is a basis for appellant/defendant’s ineffective assistance of counsel claim, then a conflict free counsel should be appointed and the trial court should conduct an evidentiary hearing on appellant/defendant’s motion to withdraw his plea. See Padgett v State of Florida 743 So2d 70 (Florida 4th DCA 1999) and Brown v State of Florida 835 So2d 402 (Florida Second DCA 2003). It is therefore Ordered and adjudged that the trial court’s denial of appellant/defendant’s Motion to Withdraw Plea is hereby vacated and this matter is remanded for further hearing on
appellant/defendant’s Motion to Withdraw Plea consistent with this order.

http://www.jud6.org/LegalCommunity/LegalPractice/opinions/appellatedivisionopinions/2009/200706350cfaes,%20Figueroa.htm