Isotope stuff: discussion thread

[GGE]

Perhaps this could be useful. I haven't read through it yet.

http://ecophys.utah.edu/uploads/3/1/8/3/31835701/407.pdf

"A Framework for the Incorporation
of Isotopes and Isoscapes in Geospatial
Forensic Investigations"

Particularly this section, perhaps:

"17.4
Application of Stable Isotope Analysis to Unsolved
Murder Investigations"

This 31 page paper explains how to use isotope testing to determine region of origin in human hair. Was this not done on our UID? I see only mentions of places the UID had recently passed through. The paper also explains how to use it in determining information about location via tooth enamel/teeth. I am interested to know why these methods were unable to give us origin information about our UID.

 

[carbuff]

I think you might be mixing up the pollen testing and the stable isotope testing.

You get pollen just moving through the air--in your hair and clothing and even in your nose and lungs. That can be detected years later.

The stable isotopes are absorbed into the body with the water in your food and drink, so you couldn't get them from just driving through an area. But I don't know how much you have to eat or drink to have it show up.

 

[GGE]

I think you might be mixing up the pollen testing and the stable isotope testing.

You get pollen just moving through the air--in your hair and clothing and even in your nose and lungs. That can be detected years later.

The stable isotopes are absorbed into the body with the water in your food and drink, so you couldn't get them from just driving through an area. But I don't know how much you have to eat or drink to have it show up.

Yes, I was confusing them. Thank you! I generally stick to missing persons and/or cases where I can work databases/searches/research angles, but there's often a learning curve. Much appreciated!

 

[GGE]

http://ecophys.utah.edu/uploads/3/1/8/3/31835701/407.pdf

^
Pages 21 and 25 have maps showing some different areas that are classified as ISO regions 1, 2, and 3 in North America. Not sure if it's more useful than whatever else we've already got to work from though.

Page 22 interestingly discusses how to get information regarding where the person grew up from isotope testing the enamel on teeth that would've come in when the UID was a young child (their earliest adult teeth). Which is part of what i was asking about above - why was this not done, or was it? Where was this person living during childhood if this was done? Were the teeth not present, if this was not done?

 

[wenwe4]

http://ecophys.utah.edu/uploads/3/1/8/3/31835701/407.pdf

^
Pages 21 and 25 have maps showing some different areas that are classified as ISO regions 1, 2, and 3 in North America. Not sure if it's more useful than whatever else we've already got to work from though.

Page 22 interestingly discusses how to get information regarding where the person grew up from isotope testing the enamel on teeth that would've come in when the UID was a young child (their earliest adult teeth). Which is part of what i was asking about above - why was this not done, or was it? Where was this person living during childhood if this was done? Were the teeth not present, if this was not done?

I think this is excellent info. Great resource (IMO). I was assuming the iso test done by LEO was on the hair of our UID - Sand Canyon Red, but not sure of the dental iso test. You could always ask on the "Reserved for mmarty" page - it might be something they might want to still do (if they haven't already). Would be interesting to find out what iso region he grew up in and may be a great clue to identification as well. Amazing what found little microscopic bits can be used to provide a timeline of information.

 

[RickshawFan]

I think you might be mixing up the pollen testing and the stable isotope testing.

You get pollen just moving through the air--in your hair and clothing and even in your nose and lungs. That can be detected years later.

The stable isotopes are absorbed into the body with the water in your food and drink, so you couldn't get them from just driving through an area. But I don't know how much you have to eat or drink to have it show up.

I'm guessing this issue came up about the isotope testing and how long a subject was exposed to IR1, IR2 or IR3 because he evidently "moved around" in the last month before death and was "on the move" between IR2 and IR1 between 6-9 weeks prior? This has to mean you could rack up an isotope in a fairly short time?

 

[RickshawFan]

I'm wishing the isotope test also showed whether the water being drunk was of the municipal variety (i.e. was treated). It might help to know if the UID was hanging out "in town" or "in the woods".

 

[carbuff]

I'm not sure whether that can be measured from the ISO testing. The articles that have been posted sound like treatment etc. doesn't really affect the isotope ratios.

 

[RickshawFan]

I'm not sure whether that can be measured from the ISO testing. The articles that have been posted sound like treatment etc. doesn't really affect the isotope ratios.

I'm betting chlorine (or municipal treatment) level wouldn't be part of an isotope test. There would be a chemical signature though?

I believe part of what we're up against is current limitations in isotope science when it's used in forensics. For instance, since the isotope readings reflect intake of water, what if a person is addicted to soda pop bottled in Chicago? Fiji water? Florida orange juice? Water from high altitude snowmelt in a municipal reservoir vs. a valley aquifer?

 

[RickshawFan]

I don't think we should drop this idea of BigCityAccountant's: the possibility that our UID was associated with Desert Creek campground.

I would suggest we evaluate, not Desert Creek per se, but the general area of the Sweetwater Mountains, which straddle Lyon County, NV, and CA border.

I believe this area would correspond with IR2, with IR1 in the lower altitudes.

Here's my take, from what I know of the backcountry: this is exactly the kind of place where it's easy to disappear if that's what you want. Back in there looks complicated, but once you know it you can get around. There are old mining camps, old roads, old trails.... No problem getting food from the land and resupplying in small stores intermixed with all the SUVers, ATVers, etc. No one would really look at you twice in an area like this; everyone is outdoorsy, grubby, stinky, good with an axe, wears a hat.... No problem picking up a souvenir cap because yours wore out and the funky store only had one left. "Resupply" from someone else's "dispersed" camp spot? No problem: you could probably haul off a case of beer and a a gallon of whiskey.

This is a random impression of what it's like to go back in there. I thought maybe it would help to get a "picture":
https://www.sharetrails.org/node/7830

To get an idea about terrain, here is a tour-company photo:
View attachment 86661

 

[carbuff]

Yeah, that's the kind of area where a person can live more or less off the grid, in a line shack, mining shack, cabin, teepee. I knew a number of people living in similar situations in Montana; many of them were artists who'd pick up some money selling hand-thrown pottery or jewelry, or working in town during the tourist season to pick up enough to live on for the rest of the year, that sort of thing. You can disappear even without intending to.

 

[RickshawFan]

Yes, on artists;. that could explain the T-shirt. I've run into some MP cowboys, too: this would explain a row of missing teeth. Shepherds might be on same pattern of summer in IR2 and fall in IR1, and there are lots out there (Basque/Portuguese/Andean).