Jahi’s family wants her declared 'alive again’

[atthelake]

Whoa this new thread is moving fast . Thanks K-Z for getting moderator approval

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[sloane7777]

Interesting that she is being cared for in a private home. The hospital she had gone to was supposedly caring for her free of charge. I suspect that her family and the hospital/hospital staff had difficulties in dealing with the expectations of the family. Her family has been less than gracious or tactful in dealing with anyone who doesn't do what they want so i would not be surprised to see that the hospital and her family had parted ways.

In the past we have seen her family publicly post the private # of a CHO adminstrator/doctor telling people to call him, holding disruptive demonstrations outside Children's hospital, aggressively demanding that Jahi be given a diploma from her school, etc. They seem quite difficult to deal with when they don't get their way.

I wonder what prompted the move from the hospital. Did Jahi's mother get mad and remove her or did the hospital come to the decision that they had done all they could for Jahi and released her?

Now I see the urgency for them to have her declared alive so that the family can receive financial assistance for her care. Their donations have pretty much come to a halt. Most people don't care to donate money for Jahi to get manicures and her mother to buy designer purses and such.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Im not so much concerned about taxpayer dollars going toward this , who knows they might discover something useful , and as much money as we spend on things like prisoners on death row for 20 years, and some of the other horribly wasteful things , mispelled city sewer covers, HA! even unused Fema Trailer homes, I dont see keeping her alive as such a bad thing I couldnt imagine being in anyones place in that family death is hard to accept as it is and with this being such an unusal case every little thing dangles a glimmer of hope ,then it gets snached right back away, that kind of back and forth can make a person insane. I just feel for all of them

 

[Cubby]

That this is still even going on is sick. I can't believe this child is still being treated as she is.

 

[K_Z]

Interesting that she is being cared for in a private home. The hospital she had gone to was supposedly caring for her free of charge.

(Snipped for focus.)

Apparently she was moved to the private home about a month ago, according to this link.

Dolan said Jahi and her parents moved to a house in New Jersey about a month ago where the girl remains on life support.

http://blackamericaweb.com/2014/10/03/family-wants-brain-dead-teen-declared-alive

The hyperbole of Dolan's comments should not go unquestioned by reputable, ethical media reporters. I understand that the roll out of this campaign was carefully orchestrated-- with controlled release of information.

For example, Dolan has stressed that this court petition is about "allowing" Jahi to return to California-- as if California is somehow barring her from being in the state. In fact, Nailah Winkfield still has custody of Jahi's body, and nothing is preventing her from bringing Jahi to California. Especially if NW intends to care for Jahi in a private home. NW has that right today, which was given to her from Judge Grillo and the Alameda County coroner.

So it is very disingenuous that Attorney Dolan is trying to persuade the media that the family is "unable" to return to California. They can return, but they can't get MONEY to care for her there. AFAIK, Jahi isn't being discriminated against by the state of California, because California doesn't provide health care for OTHER brain dead individuals, either.

The question that should be asked of Dolan by reporters is, "Is Jahi McMath receiving any financial assistance for medical care from the state of New Jersey?" I strongly suspect she is not eligible there, either.

So, I'm left with thinking that this really is all about $$. And as ibnora said above, about challenging the $250K cap in CA that Uncle Omari Sealey fondly referred to as "chump change" so many months ago. If Jahi is brain DAMAGED, and not dead, the $250K cap doesn't apply-- and that is a lifetime of potentially large sums of money she could be eligible for.

Dolan said the goal was to “get the mantle of death off of her” so that Jahi can return to California from New Jersey, where she is being cared for by her mother, stepfather and sister at a private home.

If Dolan can persuade the court to overturn the judge’s death finding — as well as a subsequent ruling from the Alameda County coroner — she could be returned to her home in California, with the costs to care for her shifted to the state and possibly UCSF Benioff Children’s Hospital Oakland.

Jahi can’t get health care in California now because of the declaration of brain death, Dolan said. “We can’t do anything now because under California law she is brain dead.”

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/artic...-Jahi-McMath-moving-5797622.php#photo-6945895

The other thing that occurs to me is that Dolan understands how Judge Grillo runs his court, having been in Judge Grillo's court numerous times last year related to Jahi's situation. Surely Dolan must understand that EVEN if Judge Grillo somehow allows Dolan to present this new information in his court, Judge Grillo isn't going to just say, "Wow! that's interesting and exciting news! Revoke the death certificate and reinstate her living personhood status, with all the rights and financial assistance she is eligible for!" At a bare minimum, a panel of impartial experts would have to be appointed by the court to do independent evaluations. The opinions of the family's experts will not be allowed to stand unchallenged, although today they enjoy the benefit of being the only opinions put forth in the media sweep.

I don't actually see how Judge Grillo can hear this petition at all, nor can he "order" the medical examiner (or any other doctor) to pronounce Jahi "undead". It doesn't seem Judge Grillo has that authority under state law. But I can see where Atty Dolan could be trying to get his foot in the door of the court, to force the discussion of "personhood", brain damage versus brain death, brain death criteria, etc into a national discussion.

I wonder if Judge Grillo agrees to hear this "she is no longer brain dead evidence" petition in his court, if that somehow preserves Dolan and NW's ability to continue to appeal this up the chain to the state, and the supreme court? Is that a strategy? Need someone with legal experience to weigh in on this.

 

[Donjeta]

Until Thursday, neither Dolan nor the family would confirm reports that Jahi had been in New Jersey since leaving Oakland. Jahi, according to Dolan, is living in a house in New Jersey with her mother, stepfather Marvin Winkfield and younger sister, along with caretakers who tend for her around the clock. The Garden State has a law allowing patients and their families the right to reject a medical diagnosis of brain death on religious grounds.

Dolan said he is working on an application to revoke an Alameda County Coroner's Office death certificate for Jahi. Such action would be first for the state, state officials said.

It could also mean a significant change in compensation for the family. There is a cap of $250,000 on medical malpractice lawsuits involving children who die as a result of surgery. For patients who survive surgery but are injured as a result, a hospital could end up paying a much larger sum that would include paying for the patient's future medical care needs.

If Dolan is successful, Jahi could return to California and receive care.

"She wants to come home," he said. "She's been exiled."

http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_26651739/jahi-mcmath-attorney-shows-video-he-says-proves

There was nothing in the arrangement with the county that said she had to leave her home. The family chose to move her elsewhere, they were allowed to arrange Jahi's care in California too.

 

[al66pine]

Sorry (for unknown reason) I cannot paste url/link for this:
"International Network for the Definition of Death"
"Founded by Dr. Calixto Machado of Cuba, and Alan Weisbard of the USA, the Network is an affiliate of the International Association of Bioethics devoted to the discussion of the ethical and medical issues associated with:

• diagnosis and differentiation of brain death, coma, and persistent vegetative state
• differentiation of anencephaly and other severe neurological deficits from brain death
• organ transplantation and termination of treatment decisions for the brain-dead and neurologically impaired
• philosophical issues of personhood and rights related to the status of the brain dead and neurologically impaired

After its foundation in 1996 we held its 1st International Symposium in Havana, during the Second International symposium on Brain Death (Havana). Its 2nd International Symposium was held during your IAB World Congress in San Francisco (co-chaired by Calixto Machado and Stuart Youngner). The 3rd International Meeting was held in Buenos Aires, Argentina, during the IAB World Congress. The 4th International Meeting was held in Havana, in 2000, during the 4th International Symposium on Coma and Death." BBM

Site also lists2004, 2008, 2010 symposia. No 2012 or 2014 meetings are shown. Is this a 'neglected' site - out of date, not maintained?

'International Association of Bioethics'?
Alan Weisbard?

^Ring bells^ w any of our med professionals here?

 

[Donjeta]

The tests, conducted at Rutgers New Jersey Medical School, included an MRI and EEG, said Dolan and two experts who participated in the news conference by phone.

They purportedly showed intact brain structure, cerebral blood flow and electrical activity. Dolan said the girl has also begun her menstrual cycle, which experts say is inconsistent with brain death since it demands pituitary function.

Dr. Charles J. Prestigiacomo, chair of the neurological surgery department at Rutgers, said in a phone interview that the case raises questions of whether there “is something we might need to change in our basic teaching” on brain death.

“From what I know and what I’ve experienced with individuals who have been deemed brain-dead, usually the classic teaching is the body can’t tolerate and be functional for that long a period of time without there being important input from some part of the brain,” said Prestigiacomo, one of the experts who joined Dolan for the news conference.


Brain anatomy “has been preserved that we don’t expect to see nine months after what we consider brain death,” he said, and in cases of brain death “we would not see any electrical activity in any part of the brain.”

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-medical-experts-jahi-mcmath-20141002-story.html


he was co-author in an IBRF poster with Defina, Machado and Fellus and others
http://www.neurology.org/content/82/10_Supplement/P4.285.long

they claim to have cured another brain dead individual from brain death (ok well not really cured but...)

if I ever become brain dead and comatose please don't let these guys anywhere near me, I want to die and be done with it, don't want to be treated with vitamins in order to be cured enough to have evoked potentials and increased desmopressin intervals but no life.

 

[Donjeta]

Sorry (for unknown reason) I cannot paste url/link for this:
"International Network for the Definition of Death"
"Founded by Dr. Calixto Machado of Cuba, and Alan Weisbard of the USA, the Network is an affiliate of the International Association of Bioethics devoted to the discussion of the ethical and medical issues associated with:

• diagnosis and differentiation of brain death, coma, and persistent vegetative state
• differentiation of anencephaly and other severe neurological deficits from brain death
• organ transplantation and termination of treatment decisions for the brain-dead and neurologically impaired
• philosophical issues of personhood and rights related to the status of the brain dead and neurologically impaired

After its foundation in 1996 we held its 1st International Symposium in Havana, during the Second International symposium on Brain Death (Havana). Its 2nd International Symposium was held during your IAB World Congress in San Francisco (co-chaired by Calixto Machado and Stuart Youngner). The 3rd International Meeting was held in Buenos Aires, Argentina, during the IAB World Congress. The 4th International Meeting was held in Havana, in 2000, during the 4th International Symposium on Coma and Death." BBM

Site also lists2004, 2008, 2010 symposia. No 2012 or 2014 meetings are shown. Is this a 'neglected' site - out of date, not maintained?

'International Association of Bioethics'?
Alan Weisbard?

^Ring bells^ w any of out med professionals here?

your link is:
http://www.changesurfer.com/BD/


This Alan Weisbard? http://law.wisc.edu/profiles/weisbard@wisc.edu

Alan J. Weisbard
Emeritus Professor of Law, Bioethics, Jewish Studies and Religious Studies
Professor Weisbard has published in traditional legal, medical, and philosophical journals and online. His scholarship has addressed such issues as informed consent, the withdrawal of life-sustaining therapies, the definition of death, treatment of imperiled newborns, organ transplantation, the role of hospital ethics committees, the human genome initiative, the appropriate uses of genetically-engineered human growth hormone, compensation for medical and research injuries, the role of philosophy and philosophers in the public policy process, the contributions and pitfalls of public ethics commissions, and the moral lessons of the Holocaust for contemporary bioethics. He has a particular interest in the relevance of religious teachings and traditions to the making of public policy in our pluralistic society and has lectured and written extensively on Jewish medical ethics.

 

[Quester]

Since this is a very public case, I say put up or shut up! I want to see the proof of brain activity - including the evaluation of tests done and by impartial doctors. JMVHO

 

[al66pine]

Also QUITE interested ...experts ...to see what reports they file with the courts tomorrow.

If anyone hears anything about when the family's press conference is tomorrow, please post.

sbm bbm


Anyone seen or heard anything on ^these two issues ^ today?
TIA

 

[i.b.nora]

I 'heard' a little five second blurb on local NBC TV (KRON), but no further follow up, that Dolan had filed some lawsuit or papers (or whatever it is) today. It just is not big news here, and mostly never was.

Here is a local CBS (KPIX) print story which is notable for a couple of comments:

Magnus, director of the Stanford Center for Biomedical Ethics, said this is highly unlikely, “There is no evidence that patients who are brain dead can ever recover. There is no recovery from death.”
At the same time, Magnus admits, “It’s a little surprising that the body has lasted as long as it has, but there’s a lot of variation across brain-dead, deceased patients.” He said some patients can live for years on ventilators.
He is concerned for the family, telling KPIX 5, “It’s very sad that the family hasn’t been able or put in a position to move on from this and move on to really grieve for the loss of her daughter.”

Arthur Caplan, head of medical ethics at New York University’s Langone Medical Center, said he knows of no cases in medical history where a brain-death determination was later reversed. He cautioned that the data collected on Jahi has to be examined by other researchers and experts in the field before any conclusions can be made.
“Were this to be true, it would be an earth-shattering development in understanding death,” Caplan said. “They’re playing a high-stakes game.”"​

Whole article: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...-alive-brain-dead-childrens-hospital-oakland/

 

[K_Z]

Apparently, Judge Grillo actually held a preliminary hearing Tuesday (Sept 30, the day the court papers were filed).

Grillo held an initial hearing on Tuesday on the family’s request that he reverse his ruling that Jahi is brain dead, but he said in an order afterward that the general rule is that a court loses jurisdiction over a case once it enters its final judgment and he issued his final judgment in Jahi’s matter on Jan. 17.

Grillo said he has:

“…no opinion on the proper procedural vehicle for petitioner (Jahi’s family) to request a determination that Jahi McMath has not suffered brain death, is not deceased under the law and that her death certificate should be voided.”

But Grillo said his tentative thinking is that:

“… the issue is not presented properly in this case.”

http://sfbay.ca/2014/10/02/jahi-mcmaths-family-insists-shes-alive/

BBM. If anyone can track down this order from Judge Grillo, it wold be most appreciated! I'm short of time, and interested in what had to say on the record.

I haven't seen anything yet today about court papers filed from the Dolan team of medical experts, or a press conference. Will keep watching.

 

[i.b.nora]

Maybe this is what got filed today? I could swear I heard that something was filed today.

"Dolan said his experts who have evaluated Jahi and will testify in court are “certified neurologists, pediatric neurologists and a prominent world expert on brain death.” He wouldn’t name the experts and they aren’t named in court papers, though Dolan said he plans to file the experts’ declarations in court Friday."​

http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2014/10/03...s-judge-to-reverse-finding-that-girl-is-dead/

 

[i.b.nora]

KPIX 5 did a TV report at 5 pm that included a snippet that they say is Jahi moving on command and they showed for about a half second on a screen what is purported to be Jahi's brain scan.

Article here with a snippet of the 'Jahi Moves' video. No view of the brain scan.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...-alive-brain-dead-childrens-hospital-oakland/

 

[K_Z]

Info and details from today's press conference.

http://blog.sfgate.com/stew/2014/10/03/jahi-mcmath-videos-released/

The family of Jahi McMath posted two videos on YouTube they say shows the teen responding to her mother’s voice. In the first video, Jahi moves her foot, and in the second, she moves her hand.

Winkfield said she’s been living in New Jersey with Jahi since January, when the family moved the girl from Children’s Hospital Oakland. She wants to move Jahi back to California because it’s Jahi’s home, and so Winkfield can be closer to her other three children, one of whom is expecting a baby, she said.

Winkfield’s brother, Omari Sealey, was also at the press conference, along with Jahi’s grandmother.
When asked why the family wants to bring her back to California, Sealey said, “She’s fine, and we want her back.”

(Again, who exactly is preventing this family from bringing Jahi back to California???? No one! They CHOSE to go to New Jersey, and they can go back to California any time. What they want is $$ from the state and CHO to pay for care.)

 

[K_Z]

Links to the 2 videos Dolan showed at his press conference.

http://youtu.be/jsSeM0RVKuA

Uploaded today from Dolan Law firm. Video from May 20, 2014

http://youtu.be/yh4YC-XjG9k


http://blog.sfgate.com/stew/2014/10/03/jahi-mcmath-videos-released/

 

[K_Z]

Reviving Jahi McMath Case "Cruelest Publicity Stunt of All Time": Ex-Hospital Spokesman

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...of-All-Time-Hospital-Spokesman-278044081.html

Sam Singer, attorney for CHO last year, is very critical of Dolan's motivations in the McMath case, related to the California Prop 46. There is also some older video in this article, of Dr. Paul Byrne, along with some new family details. Photo of Jahi on her way to the MRI.

In his tentative ruling, however, Grillo said there are ways someone can amend a death record. But he felt that his court was not the right place to do so, suggesting that Dolan was not suing the right people and needed to find the proper agency to change Jahi's death status.

 

[Quester]

How much is the attny paying JM's family to wheel her around on the gurney, play charades by putting something in her propped up hand and waiting for gravity to cause her arm to fall and drop the object so that he can get publicity for his CA Prop?

This is absolutely reprehensible behavior by each person involved and on every level! JMHO

 

[i.b.nora]

From the nbcbayarea article linked to above:

""Dolan has not filed a lawsuit against UCSF Benioff Children’s Hospital Oakland, and has previously said that his fight for Jahi is not about money. He did indicate this week, however, to reporters that Jahi could be eligible for state benefits if her death status is changed.
NBC Bay Area Legal Analyst Steven Clark said it would be very "unlikely" that a judge would rule that Jahi is now alive, but acknowledged it would be "fascinating."

If Jahi were "resurrected," Clark said, that would force the state to pay for her care — even, perhaps, back at Children's Hospital in Oakland. "This is a huge economic issue," he said."​

The article also says Dolan has contributed $25,000 to the Proposition 46, but the Ballotpedia page I previously linked to said $75,000. (Which I think is more accurate).

Also, in the KPIX 5 TV News report I saw earlier, Jahi's mom said she wants to come back to California because of family, friends, etc., AND that Jahi would be eligible to collect funds for her care.

 

[jjenny]

I certainly don't think she is moving anything on command. Her leg did move, but it looked to be some jerky movement, not moving something on command.
She can not breathe on her own.
Spending enormous amounts of resources on a person that can only lay in bed does not seem to me like a good way to spend resources.