Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #2

[fridaybaker]

RSBM: All possible. But we just don't know. It's also possible he simply wanted to stage a robbery. Or that he was curious about the people he had just slaughtered. The major problem I have for him looking for an object is that this likely necessitates it being his true goal in some way which, in turn, likely requires a personal relationship with the family. As you know, I doubt there ever was one. Given his actions and lack of apparent connection, I think his objective was the outcome: the murders of the family, and there never was any key object in the house. JMO.

I am certain they went through his papers and computer, though of course, we can't be sure to what degree. Given they have a state-of-the-art police science campus in Chiba and more money than any other police force on earth, you would imagine that resources were set aside for one of / the major crimes in their recent history.

As for Mikio, he worked from home sometimes but he also worked at the office too. I spoke with the Interbrand CEO who found a handful of employees present in 2000 who knew Mikio. The idea of my interviewing them was entertained but they ultimately declined. "Sorry, they are all very negative to talk about it in the end." Frustrating.

Nic, I haven't been on the thread for awhile and haven't read through all the new posts, so please forgive if this is a repeat of previous discussion. So, I find this interesting: Not only does Ann Irie not want to talk to someone who is doing research and investigation on the murders, neither do any of Mikio's colleagues? What to make of this? Can you shed any light in the context of perhaps where the murder occurred? Is there a cultural (Japanese) issue?

Is there an attitude toward law enforcement that could be impacting this? Such as maybe people thinking their words could somehow draw the attention of LE and be misconstrued?

Is it fear that somehow the killer will track them down?

Any ideas here?

I try to put myself in their shoes. I suppose the last idea is possible in my case: Fear. Fear of retaliation. Very sad.

 

[fridaybaker]

Regarding fingerprinting in the U.S: There has been much back and forth discussion, and I was left a little confused, so I just wanted to state this. Fingerprinting has never been common here, except for various industries, such as banking and banking-related (and, even that, it's only been in recent years that it's been required as across-the-board as it is now in that sector.)

Most U.S. born citizens have never been fingerprinted. Working in one of those industries, or travel to a country requiring it, or arrest for a felony would be the kinds of things one would be fingerprinted for. Drug testing for work is pretty common. Fingerprinting isn't, except as above. I've never heard of printing being required at the DMV (and I have received licenses in many states) or anything else like that.

 

[fridaybaker]

Regarding the horrific way in which this family was stabbed -apparently, from the chest upwards toward the face- I wonder if the killer had a history of watching violent video games. I know very little about such things, except that it's my firm conviction that watching gratituous violence repeatedly tends not only to inure one to it, but quite likely leads to giving in to the urge to use it. (The way being exposed to any thought or behavior would tend to make one more accepting of it -I'm not singling out violence here.)

I wonder if Nic's suspect was a regular user of video games? Many are very violent. (And, of course, I'm not asserting that everyone who plays violent video games will become a killer. The particular level of violence, though, does make me wonder about that aspect of his background.)

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Nic, I haven't been on the thread for awhile and haven't read through all the new posts, so please forgive if this is a repeat of previous discussion. So, I find this interesting: Not only does Ann Irie not want to talk to someone who is doing research and investigation on the murders, neither do any of Mikio's colleagues? What to make of this? Can you shed any light in the context of perhaps where the murder occurred? Is there a cultural (Japanese) issue?

RSBM: We simply don't know, @fridaybaker. The CEO said there was some conversation about whether or not they would talk to me but in the end it was decided against. I was only told "they were very negative to talk about it." Either too painful, too scary, too uncomfortable. I imagine had a colleague of mine been killed 20+ years ago and then a random podcaster from the other side of the world taps me up to open up, I might not be hugely keen either. We can only speculate as to their reasons. Perhaps they simply think that the TMPD are doing all they can so what would it add to talk to me beyond, perhaps, only further discomfort?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Regarding the horrific way in which this family was stabbed -apparently, from the chest upwards toward the face- I wonder if the killer had a history of watching violent video games. I know very little about such things, except that it's my firm conviction that watching gratituous violence repeatedly tends not only to inure one to it, but quite likely leads to giving in to the urge to use it. (The way being exposed to any thought or behavior would tend to make one more accepting of it -I'm not singling out violence here.)

I wonder if Nic's suspect was a regular user of video games? Many are very violent. (And, of course, I'm not asserting that everyone who plays violent video games will become a killer. The particular level of violence, though, does make me wonder about that aspect of his background.)

I have two opinions on this. The first is that I would imagine you are likely right about the killer's use of video games based on his age range alone. Playing video games, (particularly during the Sega v Nintendo 'war' during the 90s), was not some niche. It was omnipresent.

The second is that I'm yet to see a single, solitary piece of evidence that convincingly links the playing of video games to those that commit violent acts. Of course it's true that some murderers do play video games, but so too do they eat cheesecake and get haircuts. Moreover, Japan plays more video games than any other nation on earth and yet it has the lowest rates of violent crime pretty much. So the numbers simply don't bear it out IMO. That said, I do think it's quite possible that the killer may well have been desensitised to violence or prone to objectification. Whether that's due to violence suffered as a child (or perpetrated), we have no clue. But it wouldn't surprise me if he had been exposed to physical violence in some way (beyond the pixelated kind). All JMO

 

[lilykaluva]

Nic, I haven't been on the thread for awhile and haven't read through all the new posts, so please forgive if this is a repeat of previous discussion. So, I find this interesting: Not only does Ann Irie not want to talk to someone who is doing research and investigation on the murders, neither do any of Mikio's colleagues? What to make of this? Can you shed any light in the context of perhaps where the murder occurred? Is there a cultural (Japanese) issue?

Is there an attitude toward law enforcement that could be impacting this? Such as maybe people thinking their words could somehow draw the attention of LE and be misconstrued?

Is it fear that somehow the killer will track them down?

Any ideas here?

I try to put myself in their shoes. I suppose the last idea is possible in my case: Fear. Fear of retaliation. Very sad.

One thing that I will say that may have played a role in souring Ann's trust in ppl outside LE investigating is that the author of that bogus book about a Korean hitman used Ann's real surname as a pseudonym for the hitman. Which is beyond gauche. She may have been like this before that book came out but I certainly doubt it helped.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

One thing that I will say that may have played a role in souring Ann's trust in ppl outside LE investigating is that the author of that bogus book about a Korean hitman used Ann's real surname as a pseudonym for the hitman. Which is beyond gauche. She may have been like this before that book came out but I certainly doubt it helped.

I generally try to be very respectful of fellow writers. But that this does not extend to Mr. Ichihashi.

 

[Shamrock1]

Regarding fingerprinting in the U.S: There has been much back and forth discussion, and I was left a little confused, so I just wanted to state this. Fingerprinting has never been common here, except for various industries, such as banking and banking-related (and, even that, it's only been in recent years that it's been required as across-the-board as it is now in that sector.)

Most U.S. born citizens have never been fingerprinted. Working in one of those industries, or travel to a country requiring it, or arrest for a felony would be the kinds of things one would be fingerprinted for. Drug testing for work is pretty common. Fingerprinting isn't, except as above. I've never heard of printing being required at the DMV (and I have received licenses in many states) or anything else like that.

It’s incorrect that only employees in finance-related positions are fingerprinted. It varies by state but truck drivers, car dealers, funeral directors, health care workers, lottery ticket sellers, attorneys, firearm instructors, teachers, modeling/talent agents, and those who works with vulnerable populations (elderly, children) are among those who are required by law to be fingerprinted. That’s a non-exhaustive list of a big swath of employees, from home health aides to CDL drivers to a corner store employee.

 

[fridaybaker]

It’s incorrect that only employees in finance-related positions are fingerprinted. It varies by state but truck drivers, car dealers, funeral directors, health care workers, lottery ticket sellers, attorneys, firearm instructors, teachers, modeling/talent agents, and those who works with vulnerable populations (elderly, children) are among those who are required by law to be fingerprinted. That’s a non-exhaustive list of a big swath of employees, from home health aides to CDL drivers to a corner store employee.

Yes, I just mentioned the banking sector as an example….

 

[FacelessPodcast]

It’s incorrect that only employees in finance-related positions are fingerprinted. It varies by state but truck drivers, car dealers, funeral directors, health care workers, lottery ticket sellers, attorneys, firearm instructors, teachers, modeling/talent agents, and those who works with vulnerable populations (elderly, children) are among those who are required by law to be fingerprinted. That’s a non-exhaustive list of a big swath of employees, from home health aides to CDL drivers to a corner store employee.

Right but @fridaybaker said "such as" not exclusively. And the list of employees not required to provide fingerprints would be just as long, no? At any rate, fingerprinting is irrelevant, with respect to OP, unless the TMPD would have access to it.

If the killer is booked by LE in the US, that would be huge. If he has to give up his prints because he's selling lotto tickets or stacking shelves at a corner store, I would imagine, less so.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Regarding fingerprinting in the U.S: There has been much back and forth discussion, and I was left a little confused, so I just wanted to state this. Fingerprinting has never been common here, except for various industries, such as banking and banking-related (and, even that, it's only been in recent years that it's been required as across-the-board as it is now in that sector.)

Most U.S. born citizens have never been fingerprinted. Working in one of those industries, or travel to a country requiring it, or arrest for a felony would be the kinds of things one would be fingerprinted for. Drug testing for work is pretty common. Fingerprinting isn't, except as above. I've never heard of printing being required at the DMV (and I have received licenses in many states) or anything else like that.

It’s incorrect that only employees in finance-related positions are fingerprinted. It varies by state but truck drivers, car dealers, funeral directors, health care workers, lottery ticket sellers, attorneys, firearm instructors, teachers, modeling/talent agents, and those who works with vulnerable populations (elderly, children) are among those who are required by law to be fingerprinted. That’s a non-exhaustive list of a big swath of employees, from home health aides to CDL drivers to a corner store employee.

From experience I know that all Federal employees and County employees are also fingerprinted. I infer that State employees are as well.

I agree it's still not "most people" in the US, but it's a rather substantial percentage I'd say.

It also occurred to me that in the US we are thumbprinted every time we get something notarized. That seems to just go into the notary book and not into a database, but it does make me wonder about whether those prints are accessible for this kind of search, somehow.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

From experience I know that all Federal employees and County employees are also fingerprinted. I infer that State employees are as well.

I agree it's still not "most people" in the US, but it's a rather substantial percentage I'd say.

For sure, and it's quite possible the killer is hiding amongst that number.

It also occurred to me that in the US we are thumbprinted every time we get something notarized. That seems to just go into the notary book and not into a database, but it does make me wonder about whether those prints are accessible for this kind of search, somehow.

I'm not sure of the ins and outs but I would imagine that the Tokyo MPD couldn't ask the corresponding authorities to give up fingerprints of anyone beyond the criminal database without a very good reason. I would assume this would have to be targeted -- Mr. X's fingerprints. And that's the chicken/egg situation we're in. The killer isn't on the offenders database in Japan and, assuming each state and county has been looked at, he's not on one in the US either. Though I do have my doubts if they have actually been looked at...

 

[fridaybaker]

Okay, we’re all just have to going to disagree here. It’s certainly not the case that everyone In the U.S. has their fingerprints taken when they have something notarized or in many other cases you mention. I’ve personally had many things notarized in many states and worked in a profession where many documents required clients to have them notarized and never, ever has it required fingerprinting. In all my years, in fact, I’ve never heard of it, either in the south, the northeast, west coast, Midwest.

I will simply say this: I was trying to draw a distinction between a country like Korea, where it’s practice to fingerprint virtually all citizens, and the U.S., where it’s virtually ways been an exception, and based strictly on a “need to know” type basis.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I will simply say this: I was trying to draw a distinction between a country like Korea, where it’s practice to fingerprint virtually all citizens, and the U.S., where it’s virtually ways been an exception, and based strictly on a “need to know” type basis.

RSBM: To go with this, we know for a fact that the TMPD checked the killer's prints against the national Korean citizen database. Not just a criminal one, the database for all adult Koreans. Such a move, as I understand it, would be possible in the US (not that there is a national prints database anyway).

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Okay, we’re all just have to going to disagree here. It’s certainly not the case that everyone In the U.S. has their fingerprints taken when they have something notarized or in many other cases you mention. I’ve personally had many things notarized in many states and worked in a profession where many documents required clients to have them notarized and never, ever has it required fingerprinting. In all my years, in fact, I’ve never heard of it, either in the south, the northeast, west coast, Midwest.

I will simply say this: I was trying to draw a distinction between a country like Korea, where it’s practice to fingerprint virtually all citizens, and the U.S., where it’s virtually ways been an exception, and based strictly on a “need to know” type basis.

Apologies if I extrapolated local information to a broader application.

I have had to provide a thumb print (not a full set) every time I have something notarized, and I'm in California. Perhaps I overstepped in assuming this was required everywhere in the US. Maybe it's a county by county option?

In any case, I do agree, as I said, that it's not "most" people but I thought it was "more than we might have expected" which was my reason for posting relative to this case.

MOO

 

[Charlot123]

Apologies if I extrapolated local information to a broader application.

I have had to provide a thumb print (not a full set) every time I have something notarized, and I'm in California. Perhaps I overstepped in assuming this was required everywhere in the US. Maybe it's a county by county option?

In any case, I do agree, as I said, that it's not "most" people but I thought it was "more than we might have expected" which was my reason for posting relative to this case.

MOO

I shall notarize a document in my bank next week, I can tell you. But for all these years, it was a “no”. The notary just notarizes that you came, showed documents identifying your personally, and signed the document. She is verifying your signature, not you.

I’d rather assume that these days, online docs might need some form of fingerprinting.

 

[Frankie Hellis]

Apologies if I extrapolated local information to a broader application.

I have had to provide a thumb print (not a full set) every time I have something notarized, and I'm in California. Perhaps I overstepped in assuming this was required everywhere in the US. Maybe it's a county by county option?

In any case, I do agree, as I said, that it's not "most" people but I thought it was "more than we might have expected" which was my reason for posting relative to this case.

MOO

I have never provided any fingerprints for notarizations here on the east coast of the U.S.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

I.C.K.
Ice Cream Killer?
rbbm.

Japan offers US$200k for help solving Setagaya murders, 20 years on

The Miyazawa family were slaughtered in their home on New Year’s Eve 2000 in a case that shocked the nation, but despite the killer leaving a host of clues, nobody has ever been arrested.

www.scmp.com

View attachment 475753

Julian Ryall 2020
“It was a combination of things that caught the attention of the public and the media, including the killings taking place on New Year’s Eve, which is meant to be a time of peace and families being together,” he told the South China Morning Post.''

''Instead of taking cash or other valuables that were in the house, however, the assailant helped himself to food from the freezer, took a nap on the living room sofa and used the family computer.''
View attachment 475752
The attacker’s shoes may hold a key to his identity. Photo: Handout

Several things (and sorry in advance that this is lengthy):

1. This, from my own translation -- *not* from Google's app, by the way -- of the characters/Kanji in the yellow and black fonts, below the images of the sashimi knife wrapped in a handkerchief (shown):

"Wouldn't you know this method of using a handkerchief?" -- A harmless question, to be sure, however, in the context of the Japanese language, this question is intended to pull "out of the woodwork" (those seeing this handbill, newspaper article, or website article) anyone with the slightest familiarity of such a tsukai-kata ["way to use"].

In a country where everyone -- male, female, young, old, trendy, and even not-so-trendy -- owns many handkerchiefs, this article most certainly caught the eye of millions of readers. Japan is a highly literate society (98.5% literacy rate when I lived/worked there throughout the '90s), with people constantly reading books and newspapers everywhere.

The fact that the author of this article/handbill is asking such a question of Japanese readers clearly demonstrates that the author knows that this "method of using" (a sashimi knife, in this case) is highly unusual. Thus, anyone who *might* reply to a request for information is already in a very narrow "pool" of readers.

2. (MOE) Because Japanese society/culture is highly homogeneous, and a part of the cultural mindset is to not "stick out" ("The nail that sticks out will be pounded down." -- Japanese proverb), it is unlikely, unfortunately, that a Japanese person would be willing to "stick out" publicly by revealing what they know about such a "method for using" a handkerchief, much less, to reveal what they know about this case.

3. (This information regarding "barley tea" I read in the previous thread, to which I could not reply.) "Barley tea", or mugi-cha [barley tea], is a hugely popular drink throughout Japan, and across all age categories. It is primarily enjoyed in the heat and humidity of the Japanese summertime, as many residents there believe that it brings properties of "cooling". Mugi-cha, like many other Japanese teas, is considered a healthy beverage (high in anti-oxidants, caffeine-free, etc.). It is difficult to ascertain exactly why the perpetrator of this crime chose mugi-cha to drink after committing this heinous crime, but one possibility (crazy at it sounds) is that the murderer was feeling excessively warm, and wanted to "cool off". (This desire to bring down the heat of...perhaps anger would also help to explain why the intruder ate ice cream.) The crime took place in the winter (Dec. 30th) in Japan, and winters in central Japan (specifically the Tokyo area) are not generally extremely cold as the winters are in various parts of the U. S. and Canada.

4. The wife, Yasuko, taught in a cram school (sorry, I don't recall which post I read where that is mentioned, but it appears to be common knowledge). Now then in Japan, "cram schools" (aka: "jukus") are as common there as gas stations are common in the Western hemisphere. There are multiple "cram school" companies, each touting their wares, and each claiming to offer better rates of success in passing exams. The percentage of Japanese young people attending at least *one* cram school 2-3x during a week (and some students attend daily after they have finished their regular school day, by the way, without ever even going home first) is high... As for cram school teachers who teach "juku" classes from their own homes/apartments, there aren't so many, at least nothing as many as those who teach in actual buildings with classrooms...thousands of classrooms, all across Japan.

5. "Cram school" teachers often teach many groups of students: a cram school in a small town or rural area might have classes as large as 10-15 students, and a school in/near one of the major metropolitan area might have classes with as many as 15-25 students. These students' parents generally sign up their child for at least one class (English or Math are common classes), and each class meets 2 or 3x/week. There are classes for elementary students (yes!), who go to the "cram school" location right after they finish their afternoon regular school classes. And there are classes for middle school students as well as for high school students, too, often not concluding until 9:30 or 10 p.m. at night. While those who teach in a "cram school" may not know many details about their students' lives, every" cram school" teacher knows that the students are under tremendous pressure to pass each level of testing, all that they may a.) be able to attend the "best" high schools in a city, and b.) ultimately, to be able to attend the "best" colleges in the country.

6. Students at these "cram schools" often have come to the school directly from their regular schools, with a stop of 30-45 minutes at the local 7-11 store (ubiquitous), replete with all kinds of snacks and beverages to tide over a "starving" young scholar. Many students leave their regular schools in the afternoon, taking a bus or train to the nearest station of their particular "cram school", pausing for a much-needed break with their friends and fellow "crammers".

7. If a student at such a "cram school" resented a.) his/her parents for sending them to a "cram school" (many students hate having to go, but realize that, on their own, they likely will never pass the entrance exams for their next level of education), b.) his/her cram school teacher(s), many/most other students or teachers would never know of that hatred, so well-concealed is the animosity.

8. Finally (again, this is long; sorry), if someone were a dual citizen (just choosing one potential example here; have no "insider information") while in Japan (let's say...someone with both a Korean and a Japanese passport), then...that individual could definitely travel out of the country (airplanes are just one mode of transportation): such an individual could take one of the many overnight ferries from the west coast of Japan to South Korea. And (this may have changed, though it seems doubtful) when one boards one of the overnight ferries (taken, by the way, by many Japanese and those who want to travel in South Korea, but not very often by Westerners living in Japan), they never, ever ask to see someone's passport. Generally a passenger only has to show a basic ID (name and residence location while in Japan). Mentioning this since it is possible (not saying "likely", because, again, I simply don't know) that someone could high-tail it out of the country of Japan and basically "disappear" -- never to be found/heard from again.

I do find it interesting that one local store owner said (this, I read in a post early on Thread #1) that they had camera footage (a video, I'm guessing) of the suspect in their store, buying...a sashimi knife! Now then, why that store owner did not come forward with that information right at the beginning of the investigation, I have no idea. Nor do I know if it's possible that the TMPD do have a suspect, but...in order to not "bring shame" upon some well-known local family/politician, that information has never been revealed.
+ + +
And I love that @FacelessPodcast is working on this case! Thanks, Nic, for all of your efforts!


MOO/IMOE

Edited to remove the mystery "4." at the bottom of the page.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

RSBM: reading back that Japan Times January 1st article. Interestingly, it says the door was locked and the windows were not broken. Now, I'd never seen direct confirmation of the door being locked because I was told Haruko couldn't remember if she found the door unlocked, locked, or even ajar. That said, it also says most of the stab wounds focused on the necks of the victims, which is untrue, so it could simply be misreporting in the chaos of that breaking story.

Just MOO, but strongly think (opinion only, of course) that the intruder climbed in via the broken screen (in Japan, nearly all Japanese families open the window that has a screen) of the ofuro (room with the deep tub of hot, hot bath water). As one walks down little streets and alleys of Japan in the evenings, it's easy to catch the fragrance of different soaps that residents use in the obligatory cleaning-off shower, before they hop into the ofuro to "relax" before bedtime. Thus, no broken window. And many 15-20 year-olds in Japan could easily navigate such a climb...especially since (in this particular case) there was an adjacent fence. MOO

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Regarding the killer's use of the computer, my understanding (from the podcast) is that there is no evidence to suggest that he attempted to book tickets for a show using Mikio's cards. Instead, he simply created a folder and left it at that. Questions arise: How did he name the folder? Where was the folder created - in the root directory or elsewhere? In what language was it named? It appears that he did not linger at the computer for very long. Was he searching for something specific, or perhaps he intended to spend some time playing computer games but found none available? Alternatively, could he have been looking to download something, such as a game?

Still thinking that, numb to any sense of good or evil, the intruder chose to do a quintessentially "Japanese young person" thing at the moment: to play a video game!