Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #2

[Tiger Stripes]

Absolutely. Skateboard or not, how do we explain his invisibility at these stations? Especially if he had a skateboard — a young guy with a skateboard, an injury and no jacket, possibly ‘looking foreign’…

Literally every time someone has said this, I’ve never seen it backed up by anything. I don’t know if that’s because street view makes Soshigaya Park look sparse? But I’ve been through there in the day and night, my first occasion was something like 5am while jet lagged (the brain doesn’t make good choices) and every single time, there was foot traffic. Even at that very early hour of the morning.

Yeah, for sure. Soshigaya is anything but "do-inaka" ("the middle of nowhere", "boondocks"). There are always people around there (so...not like a small, rural town where people would immediately notice some outsider walking around/past a nearby house). Also, even in high-tech Japan (sincere; it really is a high-tech country, beyond what many in the West would realize, IMO), security devices like Ring doorbell cams (or a Japanese counterpart) were virtually non-existent. What would have not been "non-existent" would have been...the local "neighborhood network"! (And yes, we do know that Haruko-san, the grandma, lived next-door.) But...who else may have lived up/down that street, I wonder? Even if they moved away long ago, their (now) adult children would likely be a great source of information. JMOE, but Japanese people are amazing observers (think about it: their very language and its intricate nuances is linked to just a teeny "pen stroke" here or there, and such a stroke can change an entire meaning!): Someone in that neighborhood (perhaps several "someones") knows something...

MOO

 

[Sor Juana]

Still thinking that, numb to any sense of good or evil, the intruder chose to do a quintessentially "Japanese young person" thing at the moment: to play a video game!

For some reason, the police are not disclosing the name of the folder. I think the folder's name might offer some clues. If the folder was named after a game, it would suggest that the killer wasn't looking for anything specific but was simply passing time on the computer. This would imply that the earlier bloodbath wasn't linked to any specific motive, but rather to a random mental outburst.

 

[fridaybaker]

Japan Festivals - December

Japanese Festivals December. See a list of the main festivals in Japan in December.

www.japan-experience.com

Lengthy, lots of photos, possible repost, rbbm.

The faceless killer who slaughtered an entire family and then vanished for two decades

First he murdered the Miyazawa family. Then he spent half a day eating their food, browsing their internet search history, and napping on their couch. Why can't Japanese police find the killer?

www.abc.net.au

By North Asia correspondent Jake Sturmer and Yumi Asada in Setagaya 28 Dec 2019
''The end of the year is one of the most momentous occasions in Japan, a chance to celebrate a fresh start and welcome new beginnings.
It was a frosty winter's night in Setagaya, Tokyo when eight-year-old Niina, her younger brother Rei and their parents Mikio and Yasuko were at home, preparing for the festivities.
But the Miyazawa family would never celebrate that day.''

''Police believe the attacker continued to stab Niina and Yasuko far beyond the point at which they had died.''
It's a question still seared in the mind of 72-year-old Takeshi Tsuchida.
View attachment 497796
The now-retired police chief played an integral role in the case — and cannot let it go.

An officer for 41 years, he rose to the ranks of chief officer at the Seijyo Police station, the force tasked with investigating the family's murder.

The facial expressions from the bodies he inspected still remain seared into his memory.

"When you compare victims who die from illness or natural causes to those who are suddenly murdered, they look very different," he said.
"They have furious facial expressions. They are mortified and regretful. I imagine that all of the victims felt the same way, just feeling regret."
"When I think about the brutality in the way he murdered the four, I just wonder, how could a sane person carry out such an extreme crime?" he said.

"He slashed them from above the chest to the face as if he tormented them. It was extremely brutal.

"And the way he finished them off in the very end … [it was so horrific] we couldn't show those scars to the devastated victims' families. There are no other cases in which the victims have been cut up like this," he said.''

So poignant.

 

[Sor Juana]

By North Asia correspondent Jake Sturmer and Yumi Asada in Setagaya 28 Dec 2019: "He slashed them from above the chest to the face as if he tormented them. It was extremely brutal."

I would be interested in hearing a forensic expert's opinion on the cutting techniques the killer used, particularly if there is any resemblance to those used by fish cutters. I believe the police should have explored this direction. I haven't seen any detailed discussions about the cuts online, possibly to avoid traumatising the family.

 

[Charlot123]

View attachment 504872 View attachment 504874

I would be interested in hearing a forensic expert's opinion on the cutting techniques the killer used, particularly if there is any resemblance to those used by fish cutters. I believe the police should have explored this direction. I haven't seen any detailed discussions about the cuts online, possibly to avoid traumatising the family.

TMPD was good enough to get on 2Chan pet hating boards. I wonder if there were similar cutting boards and people posted on them?

(There is a book by Landay, "Defending Jacob", published in 2012, mentioning similar internet-based boards. It describes the psychology of an adolescent murderer well, IMO. The only imprecise thing, the "murderer gene" described in the book, is not paternally transmitted, otherwise, the book is recommended.)

 

[SteveL]

I just listened to the entire Faceless Podcast for the second time. I must again commend Nic on an amazing job. Thanks for all the work you and your crew (especially sound) put into it. A couple issues still continue to bother me...

An Irie often seems to come across as theatrical in some of her public appearances. She's a fairy successful author. While she rarely makes public appearances, I wonder if they coincide with her book releases. I know she's written at least one book dealing with grief. There's currently a similar case here in the United States where a woman named Kouri Richens wrote a book about processing a grief, and it later turned out she may be more "informed" about the case than previously suspected. An Irie seems to project conflicting messages balancing privacy and publicity regarding the case.

It's peculiar the homes were "sound proofed," but investigators determined it did little, to no good. The soundproofing of the homes seemed forced. Were there issues between the families that led to it being installed, if anything for appearance sake? Also, is it possibly that the family next door may have heard more than they've disclosed, but ignored it out a sense of spite? I wonder if there may have been some tensions between the families. It's often the case, even in the best of families. Could living so closely together cause additional friction?

 

[WhoDisDoe]

I’m an applied statistician, and something that bothers me about the Korean genetic connection:

I’m not sure if I’m following that university’s logic correctly, but my understanding is basically that it goes something like, “1 in 4 Korean men have this haplotype, vs 1 in 13 Japanese men; so it seems likely the perp is Korean”. (Please correct me if this is a wrong presentation of either the stats or the reasoning)

It’s already been pointed out that you’d need to take country populations into account, which makes sense (and would make it seem like actually Chinese is the most likely ancestry). But I can’t recall seeing it pointed out already that this crime took place in Japan, where there are orders of magnitude more Japanese men than Korean or Chinese; and therefore going by the Y-haplotype alone, our conclusion should be nothing other than the perp is most likely of Japanese descent on his father’s side (with a small but non-negligible chance of being Korean or Chinese). (For those familiar, you could call this a Bayesian interpretation - but it’s simply the correct way to do statistical reasoning here)

Yes, the shoes might move the likelihood scale somewhat back toward Korean (though IIRC there’s uncertainty as to whether it was actually a Korea-only size). But going on the Y-haplotype alone, you shouldn’t draw any strong conclusion other than “most likely Japanese”.

Please tell me if I’m off the mark or misunderstood something.

 

[Charlot123]

I’m an applied statistician, and something that bothers me about the Korean genetic connection:

I’m not sure if I’m following that university’s logic correctly, but my understanding is basically that it goes something like, “1 in 4 Korean men have this haplotype, vs 1 in 13 Japanese men; so it seems likely the perp is Korean”. (Please correct me if this is a wrong presentation of either the stats or the reasoning)

It’s already been pointed out that you’d need to take country populations into account, which makes sense (and would make it seem like actually Chinese is the most likely ancestry). But I can’t recall seeing it pointed out already that this crime took place in Japan, where there are orders of magnitude more Japanese men than Korean or Chinese; and therefore going by the Y-haplotype alone, our conclusion should be nothing other than the perp is most likely of Japanese descent on his father’s side (with a small but non-negligible chance of being Korean or Chinese). (For those familiar, you could call this a Bayesian interpretation - but it’s simply the correct way to do statistical reasoning here)

Yes, the shoes might move the likelihood scale somewhat back toward Korean (though IIRC there’s uncertainty as to whether it was actually a Korea-only size). But going on the Y-haplotype alone, you shouldn’t draw any strong conclusion other than “most likely Japanese”.

Please tell me if I’m off the mark or misunderstood something.

You are right, except for you have to ask, "at a given moment, Christmas on 2020, how many men of Chinese descent, Korean descent and Japanese descent were there on Honshu island?" And then, extrapolate. I assume, Japanese will be nr 1 and Koreans, nr 2. However: that was 2001, and the haplogroup of O-M122 was just that. Now they can investigate up to tiniest subclades and not all Japanese or Koreans would match him. Maybe, only a tiny group. So we can't assume anything as of today, just push for normal modern DNA evaluation.

 

[Sor Juana]

It’s already been pointed out that you’d need to take country populations into account, which makes sense (and would make it seem like actually Chinese is the most likely ancestry). But I can’t recall seeing it pointed out already that this crime took place in Japan, where there are orders of magnitude more Japanese men than Korean or Chinese; and therefore going by the Y-haplotype alone, our conclusion should be nothing other than the perp is most likely of Japanese descent on his father’s side (with a small but non-negligible chance of being Korean or Chinese).

Simply knowing the haplogroup gives a very broad and thus practically useless prior. The fact that some haplogroup was identified from the genetic material of the killer is actually meaningless without comparing this data with what is available in databases to identify the killer's closest relatives or reconstruct his face. Only this would be significant, as finding the killer requires deterministic matching, not probabilistic. The likelihood of the killer being [partly] of Korean, Chinese, or Japanese ethnicity is of no practical relevance because it cannot be used without other reference points (you cannot update your priors effectively.) Therefore, we will have to wait until the necessary legal decisions move the situation with the DNA forward and allow specialists to use the killer's dna for more extensive matching.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

View attachment 504872 View attachment 504874

I would be interested in hearing a forensic expert's opinion on the cutting techniques the killer used, particularly if there is any resemblance to those used by fish cutters. I believe the police should have explored this direction. I haven't seen any detailed discussions about the cuts online, possibly to avoid traumatising the family.

Yes, I've never heard anything about this specifically. There is the obvious use of a sashimi knife but beyond that, the only notable aspect of his stabbing patterns, I would say, is that he went for the head and the face in all cases (excepting Rei who was not stabbed). Certainly, the Chief had seen stabbings before, but I think what shocked him was the placement of the blows. The tip (of the sashimi knife) ended up in Mikio's brain, Yasuko was stabbed so savagely she was left without a face, Niina was left with no front teeth (suggesting the killer beat her, either with his fists or the butt of the knife / some other object as yet unmentioned).

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I just listened to the entire Faceless Podcast for the second time. I must again commend Nic on an amazing job. Thanks for all the work you and your crew (especially sound) put into it. A couple issues still continue to bother me...

An Irie often seems to come across as theatrical in some of her public appearances. She's a fairy successful author. While she rarely makes public appearances, I wonder if they coincide with her book releases. I know she's written at least one book dealing with grief. There's currently a similar case here in the United States where a woman named Kouri Richens wrote a book about processing a grief, and it later turned out she may be more "informed" about the case than previously suspected. An Irie seems to project conflicting messages balancing privacy and publicity regarding the case.

It's peculiar the homes were "sound proofed," but investigators determined it did little, to no good. The soundproofing of the homes seemed forced. Were there issues between the families that led to it being installed, if anything for appearance sake? Also, is it possibly that the family next door may have heard more than they've disclosed, but ignored it out a sense of spite? I wonder if there may have been some tensions between the families. It's often the case, even in the best of families. Could living so closely together cause additional friction?

Thank you, Steve. Very much appreciated, I'm glad it stands a second go around.

RE: An Irie, I've spoken about her ad nauseam. But I think it stands very clearly that she has seemingly conflicting stances on certain things. If you check her twitter, her opinions on the media are very clear, she takes a dim view -- but then calls on them in certain cases. (From my conversations, it seems as if there is a select group that she trusts). That said, humans contradict themselves, this in itself proves nothing, and as I've said many times, I don't think there is a 'normal' road map for suffering this kind of unimaginable trauma.

RE: the soundproofing or conflict between the families, it's evident that close proximity leads to conflict. An herself has alluded to this. Setsuko would not be drawn on it. It's not a matter of grand speculation. I can tell you Mikio paid for the soundproofing. On both sides.

 

[Sor Juana]

TMPD was good enough to get on 2Chan pet hating boards. I wonder if there were similar cutting boards and people posted on them?

Back in 2000-2001? I'm not sure. I'd be surprised if they were. The Internet was much more chaste back then. I also have a theory that the killer has communication and attachment problems, so I picture him as a loner who wouldn't seek out online forums. He'd rather talk to his pet fish.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I’m an applied statistician, and something that bothers me about the Korean genetic connection:

I’m not sure if I’m following that university’s logic correctly, but my understanding is basically that it goes something like, “1 in 4 Korean men have this haplotype, vs 1 in 13 Japanese men; so it seems likely the perp is Korean”. (Please correct me if this is a wrong presentation of either the stats or the reasoning)

RSBM: Great points. This is part of the huge misunderstanding in this case which I've written about countless times. Essentially, we do not know if he's Korean or Japanese or anything else. Not only for the statistical problems you raise but also the far-fetched notion that in the year 2001, we could have this kind of genetic 'certainty' in Japan which lacks the legal framework for LE to touch DNA beyond comparing it 1:1 to the criminal database. Moreover, we know that the killer is NOT a South Korean citizen / resident.

And yet the killer is spoken about as 'mixed race' across the internet, as I'm sure you've seen. This is based on the original leak from the lab of a certain Dr. M -- Dr. M is at the forefront of Japanese DNA today, he presides over a prestigious national association and so on. He actually looked at the killer's DNA as the TMPD went to him for a second opinion. Somebody at his lab then leaked the very rudimentary idea of the killer *possibly* being non-Japanese and it grew wings and here we find ourselves. Now, from my conversations with Dr. M, there IS at least a fairly solid possibility that the killer is Korean based on his original analysis. But this is key -- he has not shared that analysis. The man might also say the same about the killer being Filipino, Korean American, or Vulcan.

When the TMPD asked Wikipedia to remove the information about the killer's haplogroups as it would mislead the public, the website responded that they would require a ruling from a judge showing that it was a falsehood.

Now, all that said, I know nothing about statistics but as I've said throughout this thread, how many Japanese or Koreans present in Setagaya in December 2000 can access Edwards USAF base? How many are able to disappear from Tokyo while being the most wanted criminal and stay hidden for 24 years, and not flag a single suspicion at any port or station along the way, let alone committing another crime? How many are then 5'6 / 5'7, likely now around 35-40 years of age, with the correct blood type, using a relatively large shoe despite being short, almost certainly presenting with scars around the hands or wrists? There are various other factors to throw in here to trim the haystack even further.

We know that the Chief was granted a permanent legal ruling that every single male body recovered in Japan is to be fingerprinted against the Miyazawa murderer. So, even if he dies in Japan in suspicious circumstances (such as living on some uninhabited island in the vein of Ichihashi), they'd eventually catch him in death, if not life. But this is all assuming the killer is hiding amongst the Japanese populace. My belief is that he is not. JMO.

 

[Sor Juana]

Yes, I've never heard anything about this specifically. There is the obvious use of a sashimi knife but beyond that, the only notable aspect of his stabbing patterns, I would say, is that he went for the head and the face in all cases (excepting Rei who was not stabbed). Certainly, the Chief had seen stabbings before, but I think what shocked him was the placement of the blows. The tip (of the sashimi knife) ended up in Mikio's brain, Yasuko was stabbed so savagely she was left without a face, Niina was left with no front teeth (suggesting the killer beat her, either with his fists or the butt of the knife / some other object as yet unmentioned).

BBM. Is it possible to know what the police make of this? It’s probably unavailable, but I believe they couldn’t have overlooked this fact. I’m sure they have come up with some explanation. I believe it's a very important piece of evidence.

From what I read in books, if a killer consistently targets the head and face of a victim, stabbing multiple times in these areas, it often indicates a high level of personal rage or hatred towards the victim. This kind of attack can be interpreted as overkill and suggests that the killer has intense emotions, such as anger, resentment, or even a desire to dehumanise the victim. Attacking the face specifically can symbolise an attempt to obliterate the victim's identity or express a deep-seated need to dominate and control. It can indicate that the killer had a personal connection or specific grievance with the victim. The face is highly symbolic, representing the person’s identity and humanity. It can mean expression of power. And it can be linked to psychopathy. In known cases, similar patterns of violence were demonstrated by Jack The Ripper (the case of Catherine Eddowes and other). The Manson Family. Each case varies, but such a pattern generally underscores significant emotional involvement and a psychological need to exert extreme violence upon the victim, often stemming from deep-seated issues or personal vendettas.

 

[Charlot123]

Back in 2000-2001? I'm not sure. I'd be surprised if they were. The Internet was much more chaste back then. I also have a theory that the killer has communication and attachment problems, so I picture him as a loner who wouldn't seek out online forums. He'd rather talk to his pet fish.

I think he is a totally manipulate psychopath and has friends. The book "Defending Jacob" was published in 2012, meaning, written in 2010, and in it, the cutting forums were discussed. Now, 2chan started in Japan (4chan was its offshoot) and it had pet hating boards in 2000. Why not human hating boards then? So I am positive such boards existed. I don't know if they could attach good photos in 2000, but who knows?

 

[Charlot123]

BBM. Is it possible to know what the police make of this? It’s probably unavailable, but I believe they couldn’t have overlooked this fact. I’m sure they have come up with some explanation. I believe it's a very important piece of evidence.

From what I read in books, if a killer consistently targets the head and face of a victim, stabbing multiple times in these areas, it often indicates a high level of personal rage or hatred towards the victim. This kind of attack can be interpreted as overkill and suggests that the killer has intense emotions, such as anger, resentment, or even a desire to dehumanise the victim. Attacking the face specifically can symbolise an attempt to obliterate the victim's identity or express a deep-seated need to dominate and control. It can indicate that the killer had a personal connection or specific grievance with the victim. The face is highly symbolic, representing the person’s identity and humanity. It can mean expression of power. And it can be linked to psychopathy. In known cases, similar patterns of violence were demonstrated by Jack The Ripper (the case of Catherine Eddowes and other). The Manson Family. Each case varies, but such a pattern generally underscores significant emotional involvement and a psychological need to exert extreme violence upon the victim, often stemming from deep-seated issues or personal vendettas.

JMO:
1. Power
2. They made me lose me face - I make them lose theirs
3. I triumph
4. Just maybe - he was taller and it was easier

 

[WhoDisDoe]

One other thought, sort of a tangent from this thread. The Miyazawa case reminds me of an American case that occurred back in 2007:

Murder of the Haines family - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

GUILTY - PA - Tom, 51, Lisa, 47, & Kevin Haines, 16, murdered, Manheim Twp, 12 May 2007

Glad to hear he got 3 life sentences and that in PA there is no parole for life sentences. :clap: :clap: I can't believe he thought it would be "more interesting" to kill Kevin because he was his friend. And he wanted to rape the older sister? :eek: I'm so glad she was able to make it out...

www.websleuths.com

Basically, 3 of 4 family members were stabbed to death in their home (the adult daughter woke to her brother shouting and escaped the house without encountering the killer). The family was by all accounts happy, loving, and universally well-liked.

It later came to light that the murderer was the son’s 16-year-old best friend, who was described as a “model student”. He had continued attending school for several weeks after the murders, before checking into a mental hospital and eventually confessing to his father (who waited several days before reporting to police). Classmates said they didn’t suspect anything while he was still in school.

No motive was ever established, and the killer said that none existed. It was noted that his diary expressed contempt for happy people and mentioned that his best friend was “way too happy” - this is the closest I’ve ever heard to any kind of possible “motive”, if you can even call it that. He committed suicide in prison ~10 years later.

Now, I don’t mean to suggest the Miyazawa murders were committed by someone who knew them. @FacelessPodcast has convinced me this is more likely not to be the case, given how thoroughly TMPD followed leads. But it just shows how a young man could break into a family’s home and kill all of them for what seems to the outside world like no reason. There could be some hidden rage or sick compulsion strong enough to drive him to such an act - even something as seemingly trivial as anger at the happiness of another family. And afterward, he could successfully hide in plain sight.

So, when Nic talks about his POI, it all sounds very plausible to me.

 

[WhoDisDoe]

Simply knowing the haplogroup gives a very broad and thus practically useless prior. The fact that some haplogroup was identified from the genetic material of the killer is actually meaningless without comparing this data with what is available in databases to identify the killer's closest relatives or reconstruct his face. Only this would be significant, as finding the killer requires deterministic matching, not probabilistic. The likelihood of the killer being [partly] of Korean, Chinese, or Japanese ethnicity is of no practical relevance because it cannot be used without other reference points (you cannot update your priors effectively.) Therefore, we will have to wait until the necessary legal decisions move the situation with the DNA forward and allow specialists to use the killer's dna for more extensive matching.

Very well put. Agreed on all fronts.

 

[ifindedout]

DBM content no longer necessary

 

[WhoDisDoe]

RSBM
Here's the correct URL (the period at the end made it a 404):

My apologies, thank you! Just fixed