JB/wine cellar

[kanzz]

Do you have a source for that? I thought al GJ testimony was sealed?

This is a screengrab from the Dateline show. (I don't know their source)

 

[andreww]

This is a screengrab from the Dateline show. (I don't know their source)

Interesting. Did they indicate exactly what they got hold of? I find it difficult to believe that they got hold of sealed testimony and then put it on national TV.

 

[kanzz]

Interesting. Did they indicate exactly what they got hold of? I find it difficult to believe that they got hold of sealed testimony and then put it on national TV.

It's been so long, I don't remember. I might still have it recorded. I'll check and see.

 

[kanzz]

Interesting. Did they indicate exactly what they got hold of? I find it difficult to believe that they got hold of sealed testimony and then put it on national TV.

Dateline NBC "Who Killed JonBenet"
"The Grand Jury started hearing evidence in the fall of 1998. They heard testimony from Boulder Police and Lou Smit. Burke Ramsey also testified. According to police documents, he listened to the 911 call. And although he would not admit that he was in the kitchen when his mother made the 911 call, he told the jurors that it sounded like his voice on the tape."

(Maybe he wasn't in the kitchen. Maybe he was in the hall.)

 

[OliviaG1996]

Dateline NBC "Who Killed JonBenet"
"The Grand Jury started hearing evidence in the fall of 1998. They heard testimony from Boulder Police and Lou Smit. Burke Ramsey also testified. According to police documents, he listened to the 911 call. And although he would not admit that he was in the kitchen when his mother made the 911 call, he told the jurors that it sounded like his voice on the tape."

(Maybe he wasn't in the kitchen. Maybe he was in the hall.)

Nice attention to detail, kanzz. otg has a theory that all three Rs (four, including JBR) were in the basement when the call to police was made, since there was also a phone located there. It makes a lot of sense this way, especially how the phone was not hung up right away since it was most likely not situated in the cradle correctly as it was attempted to be hung up; the phone in the basement was not on a wall.

If this is true, BR and his parents wouldn't be lying if they said BR was not in the kitchen when the call was made.

 

[UKGuy]

Dateline NBC "Who Killed JonBenet"
"The Grand Jury started hearing evidence in the fall of 1998. They heard testimony from Boulder Police and Lou Smit. Burke Ramsey also testified. According to police documents, he listened to the 911 call. And although he would not admit that he was in the kitchen when his mother made the 911 call, he told the jurors that it sounded like his voice on the tape."

(Maybe he wasn't in the kitchen. Maybe he was in the hall.)

kanzz,
Kim Archuletta says she heard two or three voices on the call, that's live not taped. Steve Thomas and Mark Beckner claim to have heard the same voices, posters say they heard the voices when the tape was played on the Geraldo show, Burke Ramsey says it sounds like his voice on the tape.

(Maybe he wasn't in the kitchen. Maybe he was in the hall.)

Note BR is not flat out denying talking to his parents as recorded on that tape, only that he was not present, which as you suggest might mean he was located close by?



https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18189...r-mistakenly-thinking-theyd-hung-up-911-call/

INCREDIBLE CALL RECORDING FROM THE SCENE DISCOVERED

An astonishing six-second call snippet in which a voice can be heard to say 'What did you do?' has been uncovered, experts have revealed

An astonishing six-second call snippet in which a voice can be heard to say 'What did you do?' has been uncovered, experts have revealed

Cutting-edge technology has been used to record a conversation after Mrs Ramsey had called to report her daughter's disappearance.

Experts reckon she believed she had hung up when the words were uttered.

Three people are heard to have a conversation.

One voice believed to be Mr Ramsey's says: "We're not speaking to you."

Another, this time Mrs Ramsey, replies: "What did you do? Help me, Jesus."

JonBenet's brother then says: "What did you find?" the experts claim.

The parents had always maintained Burke had been asleep at the time.

But now, using high-tech methods, experts claim an adult can be heard exclaiming: "What did you do? Help me, Jesus."

It is allegedly answered by JonBenet's brother Burke, who says: "What did you find?"

The family have always insisted young Burke was asleep at the time.

The operator who took the call, Kim Archuletta, said: "It sounded like she said, 'OK, we've called the police, now what?' and that disturbed me.

"So I remained on the phone trying to listen to what was being said. It sounded like there were two voices in the room, maybe three.

"Different ones. I had a bad feeling about this, to me it sounded rehearsed."

Conclusion: Burke Ramsey is heard talking to his parents on the 911 call, hence both parents know Burke Ramsey is wide awake, so all three Ramsey's knowingly colluded in postmortem staging, Burke Ramsey admitted as much in his Schuler interview: he stayed in his bed and pretended to sleep, also that He said he had stayed in his room the whole time.

.

 

[kanzz]

kanzz,
Kim Archuletta says she heard two or three voices on the call, that's live not taped. Steve Thomas and Mark Beckner claim to have heard the same voices, posters say they heard the voices when the tape was played on the Geraldo show, Burke Ramsey says it sounds like his voice on the tape.

Note BR is not flat out denying talking to his parents as recorded on that tape, only that he was not present, which as you suggest might mean he was located close by?.

UKGuy -

Yes, more-or-less. When I said, "Maybe he wasn't in the kitchen. Maybe he was in the hall", I was being a little bit facetious about the question that was asked.

Seems to me that investigators - or, in this case, the GJ - always ask the wrong damn question OR fail to explore further.
"Were you in the kitchen?" is the wrong question! It's a stupid question. It's a "Yes - No" question.
"Where were you when your mother was finished talking to the 911 operator?" Isn't that a better question, UKGuy?

So, yeah, he's not flat-out lying. He's just saying he wasn't in the kitchen.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18189...r-mistakenly-thinking-theyd-hung-up-911-call/

Conclusion: Burke Ramsey is heard talking to his parents on the 911 call, hence both parents know Burke Ramsey is wide awake, so all three Ramsey's knowingly colluded in postmortem staging, Burke Ramsey admitted as much in his Schuler interview: he stayed in his bed and pretended to sleep, also that He said he had stayed in his room the whole time.

Here is another lightbulb moment for me in the world of clarifying the vernacular of other WS friends. (I think :wink: ) When you say, "postmortem staging" - you're not just referring to those things about the body, are you? You mean beyond that and into the behavior thereafter? I think I just realized that in this post.

When I think of postmortem staging, I generally just mean that which applies to the body and the immediate crime scene in the WR, (the LE definition of "staging").

But, I think I understand better what you have meant in some of your other posts (if I do indeed understand you now.. lol). TIA for clarifying this for me.

Posting image again for newbies / posterity

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy -

Yes, more-or-less. When I said, "Maybe he wasn't in the kitchen. Maybe he was in the hall", I was being a little bit facetious about the question that was asked.

Seems to me that investigators - or, in this case, the GJ - always ask the wrong damn question OR fail to explore further.
"Were you in the kitchen?" is the wrong question! It's a stupid question. It's a "Yes - No" question.
"Where were you when your mother was finished talking to the 911 operator?" Isn't that a better question, UKGuy?

So, yeah, he's not flat-out lying. He's just saying he wasn't in the kitchen.


Here is another lightbulb moment for me in the world of clarifying the vernacular of other WS friends. (I think :wink: ) When you say, "postmortem staging" - you're not just referring to those things about the body, are you? You mean beyond that and into the behavior thereafter? I think I just realized that in this post.

When I think of postmortem staging, I generally just mean that which applies to the body and the immediate crime scene in the WR, (the LE definition of "staging").

But, I think I understand better what you have meant in some of your other posts (if I do indeed understand you now.. lol). TIA for clarifying this for me.

Posting image again for newbies / posterity

kanzz,
Yes, your question is more precise. It's entirely possible the case is BDI All, as per Kolar, with BR acting dumb by asking What Did You Find? e.g. he knows, see his reply to another officer that morning, reassuring the officer that JonBenet is still in the house, yet everyone else thinks she has been abducted.

When you say, "postmortem staging" - you're not just referring to those things about the body, are you? You mean beyond that and into the behavior thereafter?

Yes, in this case all three phases, antemortem, perimortem, and postmortem, could potentially have some form of staging attached, so I use postmortem staging as shorthand for whatever was undertaken after death, including fake behavior, e.g. BR pretending to be asleep, and he admits it!

As an example: shortly prior to her death, JonBenet was likely cleaned up and redressed, this would represent perimortem staging.

Antemortem staging could be the partial opening of the Christmas Gifts, and/or secreting the penknife in the wine-cellar?

Its possible JonBenet's death was premeditated, with the various stages loosely thought about. Since you move from a quiet domestic scene to a violent sexual assault, followed up by minimal staging and the relocation of JonBenet?

.

 

[kanzz]

kanzz,
Yes, your question is more precise. It's entirely possible the case is BDI All, as per Kolar, with BR acting dumb by asking What Did You Find? e.g. he knows, see his reply to another officer that morning, reassuring the officer that JonBenet is still in the house, yet everyone else thinks she has been abducted.


Yes, in this case all three phases, antemortem, perimortem, and postmortem, could potentially have some form of staging attached, so I use postmortem staging as shorthand for whatever was undertaken after death, including fake behavior, e.g. BR pretending to be asleep, and he admits it!

As an example: shortly prior to her death, JonBenet was likely cleaned up and redressed, this would represent perimortem staging.

Antemortem staging could be the partial opening of the Christmas Gifts, and/or secreting the penknife in the wine-cellar?

Its possible JonBenet's death was premeditated, with the various stages loosely thought about. Since you move from a quiet domestic scene to a violent sexual assault, followed up by minimal staging and the relocation of JonBenet?

.

Thanks, UKGuy. I think this will help me have a much better understanding of your other posts as well. Glad we had this talk.

 

[xmsmadex]

Same re the flashlight.
Let's say RDI and the flashlight was used in the staging or in the murder.Why wipe it clean?It would have been normal for the R's prints to be there,no one would have questioned them about it I am sure,the suspicion started when the R's didn't recognize it.I think they are telling the truth re this one.
>The flashlight is one + to the IDI theory in my opinion.

The R's arent professional murders or stagers for that matter. So to me these odd things, like the flashlight, make perfect sense. They were not only panicking but had no idea what they were doing.

I also believe that the R,s expected JBR to be found in basement but when she wasnt noticed JR went in and grabbed her instead.

I find it unbelievable the R's were not convicted, there is so much physical and circumstantial evidence its overwhelming.
JBR's body showed physical evidence that she had been abused for years, not just that night. And her precious skull had been cracked open, likely in an attempt to quiet her. Only force from someone much much larger than her could have done this. Then the panic ensued. And so many mistakes were made, rookie mistakes. The R's were not sluethers, so to approach the details with the mind of a sluether only leads to confusion.

And whats this about JR leaving for 2 hours? This is after 911 but before she is found?

This is a travesty of parenthood and LE.

 

[xmsmadex]

kanzz,
Yes, your question is more precise. It's entirely possible the case is BDI All, as per Kolar, with BR acting dumb by asking What Did You Find? e.g. he knows, see his reply to another officer that morning, reassuring the officer that JonBenet is still in the house, yet everyone else thinks she has been abducted.


Yes, in this case all three phases, antemortem, perimortem, and postmortem, could potentially have some form of staging attached, so I use postmortem staging as shorthand for whatever was undertaken after death, including fake behavior, e.g. BR pretending to be asleep, and he admits it!

As an example: shortly prior to her death, JonBenet was likely cleaned up and redressed, this would represent perimortem staging.

Antemortem staging could be the partial opening of the Christmas Gifts, and/or secreting the penknife in the wine-cellar?

Its possible JonBenet's death was premeditated, with the various stages loosely thought about. Since you move from a quiet domestic scene to a violent sexual assault, followed up by minimal staging and the relocation of JonBenet?

.

If JBR'S murder was premeditated the intruder would have worn gloves, no question. Giving them no reason to wipe everything clean.

 

[UKGuy]

If JBR'S murder was premeditated the intruder would have worn gloves, no question. Giving them no reason to wipe everything clean.

xmsmadex,
Have you considered the person doing the killing might not have done all the staging?

.

 

[AlGx]

Was there any mold on the wine cellar floor? if so, was any found on JB?

 

[Userid]

^ I think there was mold, yes. I don't think any was ever found "on" JB though.