JB's responsiblity - Did he know that Caylee was dead

[Brini]

Unfortunately, yes. The murdered baby gets three bags and heart sticker to rot with and Mommie Dearest gets a herd of lawyers and experts to try to try to get her out of consequences for what she's done. Dead baby's don't have rights but their murdering Mommies do, and lots of 'em. That's what we've come to in American justice! We really shouldn't be all that proud of our legal system, if you ask me.

Meanwhile, KC's "admirers" regularly pump her jailhouse account full of funds, so she can put some junk in her trunk, while waiting for the trial.

 

[Seebra]

So our laws allow a baby to lie decomposing in the woods to protect the mother who murdered her, do I have this right?

Isn't our legal system absolutely WONDERFUL?

:nerves:

 

[azwriter]

Sigh! It seems our court system is built on laws and not justice.
jmo

 

[debs]

Sigh! It seems our court system is built on laws and not justice.
jmo

Justice is blind, but apparently people can mute it or make it deaf, too.

 

[doogiesgirl]

Isn't it appalling!! I too was dumbfounded when I learned from a lawyer on WS's that JB did not have to report, and in fact, if I understood correctly, as her lawyer, he should not report where Caylee's body was if he found that info out from KC and she instructed him not to report it. Isn't that a *advertiser censored*! I do believe that poster also added that he is not allowed to knowingly mislead the court though. I wish I would have asked if that includes misleading the public thru the media. Don't know about that one.

IMO, I think we are all sickened by this because this situation doesn't come down the pike very often. I am sure most defense attorneys have personal/professional morals that prevent them from continuing to defend a client who has confessed to killing their 2 year old child as an innocent person. Most moral attorneys, I would imagine, would say, "ok you keep your mouth shut and I will try to get you the best deal I can". Most would not continue to tell reporters and the court including the judge, that their client is innocent, that said child is still out there some where, needs to be found, LE aren't doing their jobs, etc etc etc. ANY attorney who tries to get a known killer completely off is one low life individual, who should not be allowed to practice law in our country. MY OPINION ONLY.

 

[GarAndTeed]

NO he would not have to report it. Moreover he can still provide an adequate defense as long as he doesn't put her on the stand knowing that she will lie. As a matter of fact, he should provide an adequate defense to avoid appellate issues. We are all entitled to that.

The burden is on the state to prove their case, it's not for the defense to prove she didn't do it. If the state has the goods there will be a conviction. if they don't have the goods it shouldn't go to court in the first place.

Remember, many of our criminal laws were actually put into place to protect the innocent, but it doesn't always work that way..

This is an extremely interesting story for those that are not familiar with Alton Logan

OMG, what a horrific story, JBean. I watched a PBS video series called "Ethics In America" years ago, and this very issue was addressed. An atty. named Jim Neal (IIRC) was asked by the moderator if he was required to tell LE or the prosecutors that his (hypothetical) client had admitted committing a homicide for which the (wrongly) convicted man was going to be executed soon. Neal laughed (!) and said "Nope, innocent people died everyday. I have an ethical obligation to not breach my client's confidentiality." (basically atty.-client privilidge). Neal was on LKL during the OJ case & I called in & asked him how he could sleep at night. I've taken "legal ethics" (was in a paralegal program) & that term is a total oxymoron IMO. Thanks for sharing this (sad & senseless) reminder. MOO.

 

[mom4321]

I asked this question on the legal thread, Cheshire, a Louisianna attorney responded.

A quick summary:

If Casey told Baez where Caylee was he couldn't report it unless Casey asked him too. If P.I. Casey found out while working for Baez he didn't have to report it either.

If Cindy or George found out where Caylee was as long as they left her where she was and didn't touch anything they don't have to report it.

There is more information about it on the legal thread.

Then its ok for them to go into court and lie about everything? Maybe lawyers need to take an oath the tell the truth before a trail.

 

[ThoughtElf]

Although JB wouldn't have to report KC, what he shouldn't do is the type of things he actually did. He went on TV preaching that Caylee was still out there and alive and that everyone had to do what they could to find her. He made LE look into every tip (which they did), yet complained that they weren't doing anything. He let his client prance around in "Find Caylee" t-shirts when she was out on bail. Basically he made people put in tons of money and work to try to find someone he knew was dead, and gave false hope to the country and Anthony's that she was alive. To me that is extremely low, even for JB.

See, this is where I am confused.

We learned that he didn't have to report Caylee's death, but I thought it was against all of the ethical rules for JB to state that Caylee was still alive knowing full well it was a lie?

Clarity on this point anyone?

 

[essies]

See, this is where I am confused.

We learned that he didn't have to report Caylee's death, but I thought it was against all of the ethical rules for JB to state that Caylee was still alive knowing full well it was a lie?

Clarity on this point anyone?

That's what I'm saying! At what point is the line crossed where you are now part of the crime? Maybe you didn't do the deed-BUT-you DO at some point become part of the crime if you help with the deception and obstruction of said crime. Not to mention, you're bringing alot of BAAAAAD karma down on yourself!

 

[kageykaren]

At what point did JB and the A's start making nice with each other? We know the A family members were not trusting of him I think all the way to OCt. All of the sudden it was reported to W/S members that CA told LE she had already sent her people to that area and nothinng was there. I believe that sentence could be quoted. Next we see CA & pathetic GA lie extensively on LK. Then we here reports of people seeing them on the flight home after being told Caylee's possible remains have been found and they didn't seem distraught over this news. Then they are given an escort off the plane by LE and we see on the tellie the A's sauntering in their home appearing to where a face like they were intruded on and *****ed about LE disrupting their home. Go figure! Now we have them eating dinner with JB at the Ritz where they share a warm greeting. This was the first we heard of in awhile of the A's and JB socializing. Crazy sneaky bunch if you ask me! JB emphatically stated to the press that he has every right to plead his clients innocense as bosterously as he wishes. When JB staed this it was with an attitude of, just try and stop me, neener neener neener! Now does this mean CA and GA cannot be charged with obstruction if they knew where the body was and didn't touched it. If all this comes to light at trial I fear there is going to be a mob mentality displayed towards the A's. It would be nice to have a separate agency called, "Moral Police Investigations" Gee, I may have thought of a new business venture. Abused and deceased children of murder need someone looking out for them since through this case we've discovered how a child can be an AFTER THOUGHT.

 

[PattyCake]

I read throught this thread and its very upsetting to me to consider the knowledge JB may have yet do nothing and prance on stage to give the media crap and demand that everyone feel sorry for KC.

I also know that we can make and change laws. Society has the power to do that. It's much harder to alter an existing law but not impossible. You and I have the power to change things. I think defense lawyers all over the land would fight tooth and nail if we were taking some of their 'rights' away but then it will certainly make everyone more accountable.

What is so wrong with the link that JBean posted earlier is that a truly innocent man lingered for 26 years in prison and those lawyers who knew he was innocent could still live with themselves. They slept, partied, vacationed, had grandkids all while this innocent man rotted away. How is that okay???

So there must be a difference between them and me. I would not and could not ever allow an innocent man to live like that. I would rather lose my career over it and be proud that I did the right thing! There is nothing right morally about keeping quiet about the knowledge they had. They did it to SOLELY protect themselves, not their client! That is where the laws need to change.

I guess there's a reason for all those bottom feeder lawyer jokes out there. There's nothing honorable or moral about protecting those who are truly guilty!

 

[travelgal]

That's what I'm saying! At what point is the line crossed where you are now part of the crime? Maybe you didn't do the deed-BUT-you DO at some point become part of the crime if you help with the deception and obstruction of said crime. Not to mention, you're bringing alot of BAAAAAD karma down on yourself!

Speaking of BAAAD KARMA - look at what has happened to the key players on the Dream Team in the OJ trial. Some are dead, some are hawking online wills & OJ is finally behind bars :behindbar for armed robbery. I don't think any of The Dream Team thought 15 yrs ago that they would be where they are today! What goes around, comes around.......

Still doesn't make me happy about some of our laws.

 

[snow_walker]

I have lived too interesting a life to be under any illusions about anything to do with the legal system.. it has almost nothing to do with true guilt or innocence, it has everything to do with one side winning over the other.. like a giant chess game.

Neither side is more moral or seeking real justice than the other, they are just trying to win their case. Plenty of guilty people walk free, and plenty of innocent people wind up in prison, or put to death. The chances of being found guilty or innocent vary a great deal depending on race, gender, social background, and wealth.

On the other side of the coin, their is the double jeopordy thing.. after someone is found innocent they can write books about how they might have 'hypothetically' done it after all.

All that said, it is still true that the legal system works most of the time, for most people.. all we can do is hope if and when we are involved with it, it works out fairly for us. And do what we can to improve it where it is obviously badly flawed.

 

[BetsyB]

Defense attorneys do not tend to ask their clients for the "whole story." They can't put people (or their witnesses) on the stand, then attempt to elicit a story that differs from the truth if they know the truth. They cannot suborn perjury.

But if they don't know the details, then they can present a reasonable theory of a crime without compunction or penalty.

My first thought was, "If JB has half a brain...." but then I realized he probably doesn't. Be that as it may, no--I don't think he knew the details. But if he did, he had no duty to reveal what he knew.

 

[nssherlock]

Although JB wouldn't have to report KC, what he shouldn't do is the type of things he actually did. He went on TV preaching that Caylee was still out there and alive and that everyone had to do what they could to find her. He made LE look into every tip (which they did), yet complained that they weren't doing anything. He let his client prance around in "Find Caylee" t-shirts when she was out on bail. Basically he made people put in tons of money and work to try to find someone he knew was dead, and gave false hope to the country and Anthony's that she was alive. To me that is extremely low, even for JB.

Justice Potter Stewart: Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do.

It appears this is where JB and the Anthony's get confused.

 

[mom4321]

I understand that JB did not HAVE to report that he knew where the baby's body was-BUT-at what point is the line crossed when you become an accessory after the fact?

he was on tv saying caylee was alive when he knew it wasnt true.

 

[2goldfish]

I asked this question on the legal thread, Cheshire, a Louisianna attorney responded.

A quick summary:

If Casey told Baez where Caylee was he couldn't report it unless Casey asked him too. If P.I. Casey found out while working for Baez he didn't have to report it either.

If Cindy or George found out where Caylee was as long as they left her where she was and didn't touch anything they don't have to report it.

There is more information about it on the legal thread.

thank you for the info - I miss a lot of threads I guess...

this kinda disgusts me though, WHYYYY could they all know and not say a thing, leave poor caylee all alone in the wet for months, and not even get a smack on the wrist? how can they live with themselves :/

 

[2goldfish]

NO he would not have to report it. Moreover he can still provide an adequate defense as long as he doesn't put her on the stand knowing that she will lie. As a matter of fact, he should provide an adequate defense to avoid appellate issues. We are all entitled to that.

The burden is on the state to prove their case, it's not for the defense to prove she didn't do it. If the state has the goods there will be a conviction. if they don't have the goods it shouldn't go to court in the first place.

Remember, many of our criminal laws were actually put into place to protect the innocent, but it doesn't always work that way..

This is an extremely interesting story for those that are not familiar with Alton Logan

oh my days, I never heard of that case, I am seriously feeling sick right now, do these people have no freaking ...I dont even know, sense? morals? any feeling at all for another human being?

Maybe I need to back off reading any kind of crime cause the more I know, the sicker and less sure about humanity I feel.

 

[reeseeva]

I read throught this thread and its very upsetting to me to consider the knowledge JB may have yet do nothing and prance on stage to give the media crap and demand that everyone feel sorry for KC.

I also know that we can make and change laws. Society has the power to do that. It's much harder to alter an existing law but not impossible. You and I have the power to change things. I think defense lawyers all over the land would fight tooth and nail if we were taking some of their 'rights' away but then it will certainly make everyone more accountable.
What is so wrong with the link that JBean posted earlier is that a truly innocent man lingered for 26 years in prison and those lawyers who knew he was innocent could still live with themselves. They slept, partied, vacationed, had grandkids all while this innocent man rotted away. How is that okay???
So there must be a difference between them and me. I would not and could not ever allow an innocent man to live like that. I would rather lose my career over it and be proud that I did the right thing! There is nothing right morally about keeping quiet about the knowledge they had. They did it to SOLELY protect themselves, not their client! That is where the laws need to change.
I guess there's a reason for all those bottom feeder lawyer jokes out there. There's nothing honorable or moral about protecting those who are truly guilty!

Post of the Year! Something is disarmingly wrong with this system I am so sick and disillusioned by these facts, that it's hard to write and live in a country with a Justice system such as this Call me naive, I wear my heart on my sleeve, but I beleive in what's right baring none!

Then, our Justice System is predicated on the best of the best of Actors, who can deliver the most convincing "spin" on the reality of truth! knowing their client is guilty, but yet have a "license to Lie" ( all in affording someone's right to a fair trial)

Truthfully, I can say this is my worst day, here on WS, coming to terms with a Justice System, that breaches the cost of Humanity.

 

[debs]

thank you for the info - I miss a lot of threads I guess...

this kinda disgusts me though, WHYYYY could they all know and not say a thing, leave poor caylee all alone in the wet for months, and not even get a smack on the wrist? how can they live with themselves :/

The law allows them to not say anything, but they did say something. They continued to solicit funds to find a live Caylee. They continued to go on national media outlets and claim she was alive. They used funds from the Caylee foundation to pay for their trip to look for a live Caylee in a bogus sighting. IF they knew beforehand where she was and said nothing, and did any one of these things, the law has ramifications, not to exclude public fraud, misuse of funds and deceptive practices in order to commit a crime.

If I were a lawyer, that is, that's what I'd think. Meanwhile, I'm just a sleuthy sleuth with no legal credibility whatsoever.