Jeff Shapiro

[aussiesheila]

Yes its a strange thing isn’t it to try to explain why you feel something. I guess it must come from one’s own previous experiences and hence biases for want of a better word. I have had my theory for 5 years now since I read PMPT and so quite likely was influenced by his leanings also. I would have to go back and re-read the book to point out anything specific. I can see it on this forum that two different people can read the same passage and create entirely different scenarios. As far as my prejudices go I became familiar with a number of cases of sexual abuse of children some years ago and then somehow became aware that this was incredibly commonly occurring practice, hideous and unbelievable though it may be. When I first read about the JonBenet’s murder it just screamed at me that this was what this case was all about. So then I started to look for those who look like they might fit the bill as a paedophile and I must say that there are quite a number of people close to the Ramseys that do fit.

I am not as familiar obviously as you are with the law enforcement agencies in the US and if you say that Alex Hunter is a bad operator then I see no reason to disbelieve you. It is pretty clear to me that there was a lot of messing up both in the BPD and the DA’s office in the Ramsey case. Just which individuals within these departments are doing the messing up I don’t know. I does seem to me that paedophile groups always seem to have people in police departments and other high places who, for whatever reason are responsive to their manipulations. I guess this is where I am pointing the finger at FW because i see him as not only very wealthy but very influential and powerful within the Boulder community and if he wanted something covered up he would have no trouble in getting it done. I think also got the impression that he was close to JonBenet and I felt it unnatural for a non-relative male to be that way. I think I also read that he changed her underwear or something and I thought that very suss.

As far as the Ramseys go I definitely don’t trust Patsy. There is just something terribly wrong there and I believe she knew all about the child abuse but didn’t acknowlege it. She was also covering up for the paedophiles and as it turned out later, paedophile-killers. I think John is completely innocent, I don’t see anything at all suspicious in his behaviour. I think he was one of those men very involved with his work leaving the children very much in the care of their mother. He went away a lot and I think that it was these times that the paedophiles had a free run. I think that sadly, John had absolutely no idea of what was going on and when he found his daughter murdered he was absolutely shattered. I don’t think he started being evasive until he found out later about Patsy’s involvement.

 

[Toltec]

Shapiro phoned John Ramsey and to his surprise John spoke to him for quite awhile. When Shapiro informed his boss at the Enquiror that he had spoken to John at length, the boss wanted to know what John said. Shapiro refused to reveal what he and John talked about.

That is when he flip-flopped.

 

[capps]

Yes its a strange thing isn’t it to try to explain why you feel something. I guess it must come from one’s own previous experiences and hence biases for want of a better word. I have had my theory for 5 years now since I read PMPT and so quite likely was influenced by his leanings also. I would have to go back and re-read the book to point out anything specific. I can see it on this forum that two different people can read the same passage and create entirely different scenarios. As far as my prejudices go I became familiar with a number of cases of sexual abuse of children some years ago and then somehow became aware that this was incredibly commonly occurring practice, hideous and unbelievable though it may be. When I first read about the JonBenet’s murder it just screamed at me that this was what this case was all about. So then I started to look for those who look like they might fit the bill as a paedophile and I must say that there are quite a number of people close to the Ramseys that do fit.

I am not as familiar obviously as you are with the law enforcement agencies in the US and if you say that Alex Hunter is a bad operator then I see no reason to disbelieve you. It is pretty clear to me that there was a lot of messing up both in the BPD and the DA’s office in the Ramsey case. Just which individuals within these departments are doing the messing up I don’t know. I does seem to me that paedophile groups always seem to have people in police departments and other high places who, for whatever reason are responsive to their manipulations. I guess this is where I am pointing the finger at FW because i see him as not only very wealthy but very influential and powerful within the Boulder community and if he wanted something covered up he would have no trouble in getting it done. I think also got the impression that he was close to JonBenet and I felt it unnatural for a non-relative male to be that way. I think I also read that he changed her underwear or something and I thought that very suss.

As far as the Ramseys go I definitely don’t trust Patsy. There is just something terribly wrong there and I believe she knew all about the child abuse but didn’t acknowlege it. She was also covering up for the paedophiles and as it turned out later, paedophile-killers. I think John is completely innocent, I don’t see anything at all suspicious in his behaviour. I think he was one of those men very involved with his work leaving the children very much in the care of their mother. He went away a lot and I think that it was these times that the paedophiles had a free run. I think that sadly, John had absolutely no idea of what was going on and when he found his daughter murdered he was absolutely shattered. I don’t think he started being evasive until he found out later about Patsy’s involvement.

Aussie ...

You have used the word "hence" in your post. I believe you are now under he umbrella.

 

[narlacat]

I really dont believe that Jonbenet was being abused and Patsy knew about it.
IMO Patsy adored Jonbenet.

 

[aussiesheila]

I believe you are now under he umbrella.

Oh I think I know what you mean....that one who was banished? No Jeff Shapiro? Hmm... you've got me wondering

You wouldn't be under the umbrella of FW by any chance would you?

 

[aussiesheila]

I really dont believe that Jonbenet was being abused and Patsy knew about it.
IMO Patsy adored Jonbenet.

Yes narlacat I can understand your position. What I am suggesting happened here is extremely difficult to believe, I know, I had problems with it myself. But it does happen. Girls do get sexually abused. Frequently their mothers do know but 'don't know'. They could be said to be 'in denial'. They are not unloving mothers. They are disturbed mothers who, for what ever reason choose not to 'see' their daughters abuse. They are often complicit in its continuing occurrence. If they have been sexually abused as a child themselves it is sadly, easy for them to 'go along with it' when it then happens to their own daughter.

I cannot see any reason why the idea that Patsy could possibly fall into this category of mother should be totally discounted.

This is very disturbing stuff. It makes me angry. It is what got me interested in this case in the first place. Perpetrators getting away with this appalling abuse.

I would be happy to be proved wrong in this case, maybe that is not what happened. But if it did, then exposing these hideous people might help to stop what happened to JonBenet from happening again to some poor unfortunate child.

 

[narlacat]

I agree totally aussiesheila and you could just as well be right....noone knows what happened there that night.
God knows Nedra was strange and I dont know about Patsy's father...did he have much to do with Jonbenet?? I havent read much about him...I guess he would have been investigated.

 

[IrishMist]

Patsy's Dad is the only other person I can think of that they would cover for. (Besides Burke)

He was staying in Boulder, while he worked with JR. But I'm not sure where he was at the time of the murder...

 

[capps]

Patsy's Dad is the only other person I can think of that they would cover for. (Besides Burke)

He was staying in Boulder, while he worked with JR. But I'm not sure where he was at the time of the murder...

IrishMist,

I highly doubt that John Ramsey would cover up for Patsy's father killing and maybe sexually abusing hs daughter.

 

[aussiesheila]

Narlacat, Irish Mist
Since my theory has a group of people sexually abusing JonBenet over the three years prior to her death I am interested in finding more about any individuals who might possibly have been involved with my proposed group even if not actually there the night of the murder. From the little I read about Don Paugh in PMPT, and his having, seemingly a very strange wife, I included him in my 'persons of interest' list. I would like to know more about him

and Capps
I don't think he was involved in any of the 'activities' that night, even though I think he might have been involved on other occasions.

I don't think John was covering up for anyone. He knew nothing about what had been happening to JonBenet, I would think that it mostly happened when he was away.

I definitely think that of the Ramseys, it was only Patsy and not John, doing the covering up. I think she wrote the ransom note. She was covering up for the group of paedophiles that she knew, they were all her friends!!.... "We didn't mean for this to happen".... But it did, because unfortunately the group had allowed an extra person in that night, an exceptionally violent person who came with a stun gun and the 'activities' ended that night in JonBenet's death.

Sure the police keep saying the Ramseys didn't cooperate etc and everyone believes them. But I think the police are lying in order to implicate the Ramseys because they are protecting the Boulder paedophiles. There is at least one person in the group that is very wealthy, powerful and influential in the Boulder community and he has got the BPD doing his bidding.

 

[tipper]

Narlacat, Irish Mist
Since my theory has a group of people sexually abusing JonBenet over the three years prior to her death I am interested in finding more about any individuals who might possibly have been involved with my proposed group even if not actually there the night of the murder. ...

I definitely think that of the Ramseys, it was only Patsy and not John, doing the covering up. I think she wrote the ransom note. She was covering up for the group of paedophiles that she knew, they were all her friends!!.... "We didn't mean for this to happen".... But it did, because unfortunately the group had allowed an extra person in that night, an exceptionally violent person who came with a stun gun and the 'activities' ended that night in JonBenet's death.

Sure the police keep saying the Ramseys didn't cooperate etc and everyone believes them. But I think the police are lying in order to implicate the Ramseys because they are protecting the Boulder paedophiles. There is at least one person in the group that is very wealthy, powerful and influential in the Boulder community and he has got the BPD doing his bidding.

If JonBenet had been abused by a group since she was three years old I am positive there would have been definitive physical evidence i.e. the vaginal vault would have been stretched, there would be no hymen at all left etc. etc. Instead we have (not including the acute damage) signs of vaginal irritation.

The "We didn't mean for this to happen" quote has been challenged. It is quite common for victims to say things like "This can't have happened" or "I don't believe this happened " or "This isn't happening." I think Patsy was making a similar statement

I agree Patsy and her mother and sisters aren't Donna Reed. But the South is full of women like them. Read "A Southern Belle Primer" by Schwartz. It's tongue in cheek but there is a lot of truth in it too.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0385416679/ref=dp_nav_0/104-5265468-3317559?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

 

[aussiesheila]

If JonBenet had been abused by a group since she was three years old I am positive there would have been definitive physical evidence i.e. the vaginal vault would have been stretched, there would be no hymen at all left etc. etc. Instead we have (not including the acute damage) signs of vaginal irritation.

The "We didn't mean for this to happen" quote has been challenged. It is quite common for victims to say things like "This can't have happened" or "I don't believe this happened " or "This isn't happening." I think Patsy was making a similar statement

I agree Patsy and her mother and sisters aren't Donna Reed. But the South is full of women like them. Read "A Southern Belle Primer" by Schwartz. It's tongue in cheek but there is a lot of truth in it too.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0385416679/ref=dp_nav_0/104-5265468-3317559?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

I think there is evidence of prior sexual abuse. It just depends on which 'expert' you believe.

OK if the Patsy "We didn't mean for this to happen" comment is just another piece of inaccurate hearsay then I'll have to discard it as supporting evidence.

 

[Eagle1]

We just don't know if it's important or not, so I for one still keep it in mind.

 

[claudicici]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010...ramsey-murder-john-mark-karr-boulder/#content

Have you guys seen this article?
I thought it was interesting considering HOTYH just reminded me of using ethics when discussing the case...I kind of don't understand why he thinks it's ok for him to keep writing articles but it's "disgusting" when "bored" housewifes do it in a true crime forum?

 

[joeskidbeck]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010...ramsey-murder-john-mark-karr-boulder/#content

Have you guys seen this article?
I thought it was interesting considering HOTYH just reminded me of using ethics when discussing the case...I kind of don't understand why he thinks it's ok for him to keep writing articles but it's "disgusting" when "bored" housewifes do it in a true crime forum?

"Physician, heal thyself". That was the first thought I had after reading this article. If he is so concerned about the millions of hits on the internet, why would he create another one? He contributed nothing with it, only a byline to further himself.

 

[MurriFlower]

"Physician, heal thyself". That was the first thought I had after reading this article. If he is so concerned about the millions of hits on the internet, why would he create another one? He contributed nothing with it, only a byline to further himself.

That's all true, but funny coming from a journalist. If people weren't interested in such things, he'd be out of a job.

 

[DeeDee249]

That's all true, but funny coming from a journalist. If people weren't interested in such things, he'd be out of a job.

Especially THAT journalist. He was a "double agent"- playing the DA and BPD against each other till he got caught. He even tried to join the Rs church to spy on them, convincing the pastor that he wanted to convert (from Judaism).
AND he worked for the Globe- who first published the autopsy photos.