Jesse Grund

[SATA]

There is one thing i don´t understand about the death of poor little Caylee.
It seems that Casey had thought about killing her daughter for a while. You get that impression from the internet searches for Chloroform (which were the only ones deleted from the computer), neckbreaking, etc. Some as far back as three months prior to Caylee´s disappearance/death.
But if she had thought about it and planned it, why didn´t she just make it look like an accident? It would have been easy to drown her daughter in the pool and stage it as an accident.
Friends of mine tragically lost their two-year-old daughter from drowning in their small and shallow pool. No one ever suspected anything but an accident - unfortunately it happens all the time.
Was Casey too stupid to think along those lines? I don´t understand it.

 

[2door73chevy]

Yeah I remember the family saying that JG had something to do with it there was no way that was going to fly.







Now see this is the hurdle I have difficulty getting over. I don't know how much of it is me not wanting to believe a mother could do this to her child or what, but I just feel ICA is of a completely different kind of species of human. I know sounds crazy but look at her she had a list of imaginary friends that she kept up with on a daily basis. ICA craved attention and was like a chameleon to her boyfriends changing so much about herself to suit them. ICA would probably do anything for guys attention, including chloroforming her kid to get laid.
So let's just say Caylee dies by overdose and ICA panics but doesn't want to mess up her life so she covers up how Caylee died. She tries to make it look like a kidnap so ICA can be the victim as well and everyone can fawn over her and feed her ego. Because we all know the #1 person in ICA's world is ICA.

And just playing Devil's Advocate here, what if Dr. G says 100% of accidents are reported b/c the parent(s) that stage them as murders or kidnappings actually succeed? Just something to think about I suppose.


Anyway either way Caylee Marie died under the supervision of her mother so ICA is ultimately responsible but I don't know about it being premeditated just yet.

I agree with you and bolded.

 

[little_miss_smart]

There is one thing i don´t understand about the death of poor little Caylee.
It seems that Casey had thought about killing her daughter for a while. You get that impression from the internet searches for Chloroform (which were the only ones deleted from the computer), neckbreaking, etc. Some as far back as three months prior to Caylee´s disappearance/death.
But if she had thought about it and planned it, why didn´t she just make it look like an accident? It would have been easy to drown her daughter in the pool and stage it as an accident.
Friends of mine tragically lost their two-year-old daughter from drowning in their small and shallow pool. No one ever suspected anything but an accident - unfortunately it happens all the time.
Was Casey too stupid to think along those lines? I don´t understand it.

I also find it difficult to believe. Something must have happened to Caylee for her to do what she did. Did she strike her too hard maybe?

By most accounts, Casey sounded like a good mom. I think she lost her patience and lashed out at Caylee. JMO

But it doesn't explain the computer searches, because it definitely looks suspicious that she was searching out this kind of information 3 months prior to Caylees death.

 

[MsRyber]

My thought is that although ICA could get "mostly" everyone to believe her lies, Caylee was beginning to expose KC.
You can't accuse a 2.5 year old of being a liar.
She was becoming "a problem".
Again, I think it goes back to the "blow out" purportedly between ICA and CA. I really think it had something to do with CA questioning Caylee and Caylee giving blank looks, shaking her head no, etc. I think that is when the jig was up for good. Perhaps it "started" in March. But by June, it was obvious Caylee wasn't going to be a willing participant in ICA's lifestyle.

As for JG, she was just stringing him along. Sadly, not very uncommon. It is obvious he loved her, and she took full advantage of that when it suited her needs.

 

[JenniferTx]

There is one thing i don´t understand about the death of poor little Caylee.
It seems that Casey had thought about killing her daughter for a while. You get that impression from the internet searches for Chloroform (which were the only ones deleted from the computer), neckbreaking, etc. Some as far back as three months prior to Caylee´s disappearance/death.
But if she had thought about it and planned it, why didn´t she just make it look like an accident? It would have been easy to drown her daughter in the pool and stage it as an accident.
Friends of mine tragically lost their two-year-old daughter from drowning in their small and shallow pool. No one ever suspected anything but an accident - unfortunately it happens all the time.
Was Casey too stupid to think along those lines? I don´t understand it.

I don't think Casey is that smart of a person to have thought that far in advance. She needed to get rid of Caylee quick because she was coming between her and her partying and sleeping around.

 

[SATA]

I don't think Casey is that smart of a person to have thought that far in advance. She needed to get rid of Caylee quick because she was coming between her and her partying and sleeping around.

I believe so too.
But I have a problem with the prosecution trying to present it as premeditated. It doesn´t quite add up. For one thing, the fact (almost a fact) that Casey drove around with the little body for three to five days to me indicates a panic/not thought through situation. Of course she COULD have planned the killing, then panicked when it was done. It is possible. Perhaps she had woven herself into such a fantasy world of invisible friends and an invisible nanny with a sister and what have you, that her whole perception of reality was so scewed that none of it makes sense in a logical manner.
About the ducttape? Dr. G said on the stand that there was NO reason to put duckttape on the head of a dead child, it had to have been alive when that was done. I don´t agree; I think there could be a reason to put duckttape over the nose and mouth of a dead child: bodily fluids spilling from it (sorry for being graphic - this just is a horrifying case).
I am not so 100% sure it was premeditated murder. It could have been, but there are some points that make me doubt it.

 

[SeekingJana]

From JG's deposition:

On 7/3/08, Casey texted me "if JG my mom or dad try to call you, don't answer. I will explain it later, but for right now just stay out of it." on 7/4/08, I called her to try and get an explanation but she told me, "It was a long story and I will probably call you when I get drunk to tell you."

I read this twice wondering who Casey meant to send it to since it appears at first that she is saying that IF Jesse Grund or my mom and dad try to contact YOU. bhal hlah,

But NO,
Read it as it should have been typed:

" If, JG, my mom or dad try to call you, don't answer. I will explain it later, but just for right now just stay out of it".

Another correct way to phrase the text, which JESSE understood anyway, would have been:
"JG, if my mon or dad try to call you, don't answer. I will explain later, but just for right now, just stay out of it".

It's very clear to Jesse that HE WAS the intended recipient of the text.
When correcting Cassey's improper syntax, it is clear to me as well.
Not trying to excuse Casey, but most people don't text worth a flip.

Maria

 

[technicalconfusion]

About the ducttape? Dr. G said on the stand that there was NO reason to put duckttape on the head of a dead child, it had to have been alive when that was done. I don´t agree; I think there could be a reason to put duckttape over the nose and mouth of a dead child: bodily fluids spilling from it (sorry for being graphic - this just is a horrifying case).
I am not so 100% sure it was premeditated murder. It could have been, but there are some points that make me doubt it.

And what about the other holes of the body that were not duct-taped?

 

[LinasK]

I believe so too.
But I have a problem with the prosecution trying to present it as premeditated. It doesn´t quite add up. For one thing, the fact (almost a fact) that Casey drove around with the little body for three to five days to me indicates a panic/not thought through situation. Of course she COULD have planned the killing, then panicked when it was done. It is possible. Perhaps she had woven herself into such a fantasy world of invisible friends and an invisible nanny with a sister and what have you, that her whole perception of reality was so scewed that none of it makes sense in a logical manner.
About the ducttape? Dr. G said on the stand that there was NO reason to put duckttape on the head of a dead child, it had to have been alive when that was done. I don´t agree; I think there could be a reason to put duckttape over the nose and mouth of a dead child: bodily fluids spilling from it (sorry for being graphic - this just is a horrifying case).
I am not so 100% sure it was premeditated murder. It could have been, but there are some points that make me doubt it.

The killing was premeditated, and intention can be formed in moments legally, but the body disposal wasn't. She gave no forethought to that... Separate issue.

 

[SATA]

And what about the other holes of the body that were not duct-taped?

Caylee was clothed.

 

[eleni777]

I believe so too.
But I have a problem with the prosecution trying to present it as premeditated. It doesn´t quite add up. For one thing, the fact (almost a fact) that Casey drove around with the little body for three to five days to me indicates a panic/not thought through situation. Of course she COULD have planned the killing, then panicked when it was done. It is possible. Perhaps she had woven herself into such a fantasy world of invisible friends and an invisible nanny with a sister and what have you, that her whole perception of reality was so scewed that none of it makes sense in a logical manner.
About the ducttape? Dr. G said on the stand that there was NO reason to put duckttape on the head of a dead child, it had to have been alive when that was done. I don´t agree; I think there could be a reason to put duckttape over the nose and mouth of a dead child: bodily fluids spilling from it (sorry for being graphic - this just is a horrifying case).
I am not so 100% sure it was premeditated murder. It could have been, but there are some points that make me doubt it.

My thoughts on the duct tape are this:

She was trying to make it look like someone ELSE kidnapped and subsequently killed Caylee....

 

[LinasK]

My thoughts on the duct tape are this:

She was trying to make it look like someone ELSE kidnapped and subsequently killed Caylee....

:hand:Even John and Patsy Ramsey, who tried to stage a kidnapping with a ransom note to cover their daughter's murder, called 911, and didn't use duct tape!!!:snooty:

 

[complex]

" If, JG, my mom or dad try to call you, don't answer. I will explain it later, but just for right now just stay out of it".

I still think this was accidentally sent to Jesse. People don't usually address the people they are texting by name in each text, and i just can't picture Casey saying, "If, Jesse, my mom or dad try to call you, don't answer". JMO, though.

 

[SATA]

My thoughts on the duct tape are this:

She was trying to make it look like someone ELSE kidnapped and subsequently killed Caylee....

You could very well be right.
I wish she would tell the truth, the little.... nuffsaid! She has smashed her entire family, and the only way any of them can heal just a little bit (including HER!), is the TRUTH.

 

[eleni777]

:hand:Even John and Patsy Ramsey, who tried to stage a kidnapping with a ransom note to cover their daughter's murder, called 911, and didn't use duct tape!!!:snooty:

Yeah...but KC isn't as smart and sophisticated as the Ramsey's...:truce:

 

[Studio_Medic]

And what about the other holes of the body that were not duct-taped?

I don't think ICA was smart enough or had forethought enough to think that fluids would spill out from anywhere else.

As a Paramedic who has been on numerous drownings (going with the DT theory) the first place fluids leak from are the mouth and nose due to Pulmonary Edema(the build-up of fluids in the lungs) the patient or decedent will expel copious amounts of fluid(whether it be fluid, vomit, water) from the mouth and nose especially if the body was place in a head down position. Fluids will gravitate to the lowest point (i.e. head down)

In natural death usually the bladder will empty first.......however I have been on numerous natural death cases and I have seen bodies that haven't expelled any bodily fluids....

 

[Melanie]

I was trying to figure out that text too - as it appeared that ICA did not intend for it to go to Jesse (as JG is mentioned in the text). So I pulled up the phone records.

1. ICA calls/texts JG 2 x. 1 for 3 seconds, immediately followed by a 16second (text I presume).

2. Then approximately 1 minute later she has a 17 MINUTE call with Cindy (Casey calls Cindy)

3. Following the call to Cindy, ICA tries JG twice (via text or call) - 1 is 0 seconds; 1 is 54 seconds.

4. ICA then talks to Amy H for 4 minutes

5. I then see a flurry of back/n/forth calls that last 0 minutes between ICA and JG. No connection obviously.

6. The 407 number is a text from Jesse to ICA

7. The next 407 call is a text to Jesse from ICA

And the list goes on. This girl was text/call crazy that day. I can't see any rhyme or reason, only that the 17 call to Cindy is curious, as it may have caused ICA to notify her gang that mummy is gonna start snoopin around!




MOO

Mel

 

[2door73chevy]

You could very well be right.
I wish she would tell the truth, the little.... nuffsaid! She has smashed her entire family, and the only way any of them can heal just a little bit (including HER!), is the TRUTH.

Time for water-boarding or pumping her full of the drug that makes the truth come out! ( I can't think of the name of the drug :waitasec

 

[rachelle]

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1473812/Statement---Grund-Jesse---Written-Statement-2008-0716

Ok I think I solved the mystery....If you look at his actual written statement, he wrote out "if mom my mom or dad try to call you......." and then he crossed out the first "mom" cuz he messed up...and the JG is actually his initials indicating that it was him that crossed it out so no one could say they altered his statement.....make sense?

 

[Sabrina2011]

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1473812/Statement---Grund-Jesse---Written-Statement-2008-0716

Ok I think I solved the mystery....If you look at his actual written statement, he wrote out "if mom my mom or dad try to call you......." and then he crossed out the first "mom" cuz he messed up...and the JG is actually his initials indicating that it was him that crossed it out so no one could say they altered his statement.....make sense?

Brilliant! that is actually it!! good eye!:seeya: