Jonbenet's bed

[JMO8778]

I think it was said Ariana was about 12 or so?Correct me if I'm wrong someone.So JB's sweaters wouldn't have fit her if that was the case,esp if she was a big girl.

 

[JMO8778]

About the sloppiness...it sounds like Patsy had adult ADD.That can also go along with BPD,a lot of times.I know my relative can't even keep up with simple things,like his wallet,keys,glasses,etc.We were always having to hunt through the house for those...ALL the time !! The tend to have a hard time putting things in the same spot all the time,so they can find them when they need them.Basic things that are simple for most ppl,they can't seem to do.
Ppl with bpd can also be poor at handling money and bank accounts,with a huge tendency to overspend and overdo,esp in a mood swing,which sounds like PR.And I recall the Atlanta party she was said to have spent wayyy too much money on,and JR saying she was going to spend every dime he had when she was redoing the house.

 

[DeeDee249]

Possibly- adult ADD manifests differently in different people. My 31-year old daughter was diagnosed in college. She's been taking Ritalin since then. She couldn't drive or manage without it. She managed to be Valedictorian of her law school class. Not that Ritalin makes you smarter. It doesn't, but it does allow you to focus on using the knowledge you have and it helps you organize your thoughts.

Then again, some people are just slobs. PR seemed to manage her daughter's pageant life just fine.

 

[Ames]

Remember also that PR was packing/getting ready for two trips that day. There was bound to be clothes strewn about the bedrooms, though this was normal for them anyway. Housekeeper Linda Hoffman-Pugh said there were no hampers in the home- clothes were dropped where they were taken off, even underwear.

About that multocolor sweater on JBR' bed...how old was Ariana Pugh? I do recall PR inviting her housekeeper and her daughter to stay for the party on the 23rd, which they hadn't originally planned to attend. Ariana did not have a suitable outfit, so PR lent her one. I assumed PR lent her one of JBR's sweaters, not one of her own. I thought she was a similar age to JBR. In a household like that, it isn't ususual to see that sweater still on the bed in JBR's room.
BTW, look at the master bedroom photos. NO ONE slept in that bed either. The bottom corner is NEATLY folded back as if to seem to look for someone under it. First of all, if there had been no note, and I discovered my 6-year old not in her room at 5am, I'd be frantically searching, not folding the bedcovers back so neatly (in a sloppy household at that!). WITH the note, why look under there at all? You think the "kidnappers" would hide her THERE (with the parents SLEEPING in the bed?) Actually, once you have the note, why look anywhere? If she'd kidnapped, she's NOT hiding.

I was wondering about that too...how old Ariana was at that time, and if she could have even worn one of Patsy's sweaters. AND WHY did Patsy say that it belonged to JB???? I am sure that she had her reasons for lying about that sweater. LOL...good point about the kidnappers not hiding JB under the parent's bed, when they were SLEEPING there. The flipping of the corner, I am sure...was just all part of the staging...IMO

 

[JMO8778]

Possibly- adult ADD manifests differently in different people. My 31-year old daughter was diagnosed in college. She's been taking Ritalin since then. She couldn't drive or manage without it. She managed to be Valedictorian of her law school class. Not that Ritalin makes you smarter. It doesn't, but it does allow you to focus on using the knowledge you have and it helps you organize your thoughts.

Then again, some people are just slobs. PR seemed to manage her daughter's pageant life just fine.

they can be very determined if it's something they want to do.if not,then it seems hard for my relative to concentrate,even on minor things,if it something he's not interested in.but he's the only one I know with it,I guess it can be different for others,and yep,she could just be a slob.I wonder if she was raised that way,or did her parents keep a clean,organized,tidy house growing up.

 

[trixie]

I was wondering about that too...how old Ariana was at that time, and if she could have even worn one of Patsy's sweaters. AND WHY did Patsy say that it belonged to JB???? I am sure that she had her reasons for lying about that sweater. LOL...good point about the kidnappers not hiding JB under the parent's bed, when they were SLEEPING there. The flipping of the corner, I am sure...was just all part of the staging...IMO

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-linda-hoffmann-pugh.htm

 

[trixie]

trixie,

It is one of the subtle factors to this case, there is much more staging than at first appears. What seems an open and shut case of an intruder homicide slowly unravels into separate stagings.

Some people suggest she may have been killed outside the wine-cellar door, others that the final staging was effected here e.g. garrote, taped mouth, hand constraints etc. The wood shavings discovered outside the wine-cellar door imply it was created there.

So JonBenet may have already been dead prior to arriving outside the wine-cellar, she may have been killed and cleaned up elsewhere e.g. upstairs?


.

Haven't we heard before that there were fibers from the cord in Jb's bed? If that is true then how can the wood shaving be outside the winecellar door unless the wood part was only for staging and the cord was the only thing used to strangle her while in her bed.....maybe?:waitasec:

 

[UKGuy]

Haven't we heard before that there were fibers from the cord in Jb's bed? If that is true then how can the wood shaving be outside the winecellar door unless the wood part was only for staging and the cord was the only thing used to strangle her while in her bed.....maybe?:waitasec:

trixie,
Those were fibers from rope, the ligature is made from nylon, but that does not prevent her being either manually strangled or asphyxiated by adding a paintbrush handle to the ligature prior to placing her into the wine-cellar.


.

 

[UKGuy]

but I thought it was said that urine from her bladder relaxing upon death was found outside the WC door,with that being the place death occured when the ligature cut off her oxygen.

JMO8778,

That may or may not be true, but it does not prevent her from being dead as she lay outside the wine-cellar door?

The urine may simply be trace deposits from her longjohns which were already urine-soaked possibly by either urine-release upon death, or a post-mortem release.

Also what is of interest is the forensic status of the blankets in which she was wrapped, do they contain any urine, wooden shards, etc, or were they placed around her at a later time?


.

 

[JMO8778]

trixie,
Those were fibers from rope, the ligature is made from nylon, but that does not prevent her being either manually strangled or asphyxiated by adding a paintbrush handle to the ligature prior to placing her into the wine-cellar.


.

so a prior staging was done on the bed,with someone going to get the paintbrush(and rope?) from the basement,breaking the brush b/f taking it up to her room,perhaps? but if that were the case,then wouldn't shards from the brush be found on her bed? so unless that info is being held back,the handle was added later.

.....either that,or the rope was just placed there temporarily.

No way in heck do I believe,nor ever would,that an intruder brought the rope w/ him.How could he even know he could find ppr large enough to write a 3 pge RN on? I never have anything larger than a small notepad in my house,as I'm sure many other ppl do as well.Wonder how many sticky notes it would take to write a 3 pge RN? In that case 'Mr Intruder' would have had to stick them all over the stairs,lol.

 

[UKGuy]

so a prior staging was done on the bed,with someone going to get the paintbrush(and rope?) from the basement,breaking the brush b/f taking it up to her room,perhaps? but if that were the case,then wouldn't shards from the brush be found on her bed? so unless that info is being held back,the handle was added later.

.....either that,or the rope was just placed there temporarily.

No way in heck do I believe,nor ever would,that an intruder brought the rope w/ him.How could he even know he could find ppr large enough to write a 3 pge RN on? I never have anything larger than a small notepad in my house,as I'm sure many other ppl do as well.Wonder how many sticky notes it would take to write a 3 pge RN? In that case 'Mr Intruder' would have had to stick them all over the stairs,lol.

JMO8778,

so a prior staging was done on the bed

Possibly then later revised?

with someone going to get the paintbrush(and rope?) from the basement,breaking the brush b/f taking it up to her room,perhaps?

Not quite, she was carried down to the basement where the garrote was created, then applied, along with any other features , tape, wrist constraints etc.

I think the rope fibers originate from JAR's room, I forget right now, but a prior staging is quite probable?


.

 

[JMO8778]

JMO8778,

Possibly then later revised?


Not quite, she was carried down to the basement where the garrote was created, then applied, along with any other features , tape, wrist constraints etc.

I think the rope fibers originate from JAR's room, I forget right now, but a prior staging is quite probable?


.

I thought there was rope found in JAR's room,but it didn't match the ligature on JB..it was from the cowboy theme he had on the tree in his room.
I thought LHP said that cord was seen in the basement.My guess is PR bought it to use on a painting.

 

[JMO8778]

JMO8778,

Possibly then later revised?


Not quite, she was carried down to the basement where the garrote was created, then applied, along with any other features , tape, wrist constraints etc.


.

then why the rope fibers on her bed? I think it was said the cord was cut there?why bring it upstairs..why not just cut it in the basement?

 

[UKGuy]

then why the rope fibers on her bed? I think it was said the cord was cut there?why bring it upstairs..why not just cut it in the basement?

JMO8778,

The rope fibers can mean many things, not least, a prior staging later abandonded, with the rope being sourced from JAR's room? Alternately JonBenet was cleaned up and staged in some manner in JAR's room?

The cord and rope are separate material one is I assume, hemp and the other is nylon.

JonBenet appears to have been asphyxiated by the nylon cord, appears is the operative word since I am not entirely convinced, she may have simply been manually strangled then the nylon ligature and paintbrush handle added in the basement to mask the manual strangulation?


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[Ames]

The pink article of clothing is JonBenet's pink pajama top...the one she went to bed in Christmas eve.

The pillow at the foot of the bed suggests to me JonBenet was watching a video that night....or the night before. She watches tv while lying at the foot of the bed and staring into her closet where the tv is hooked up.

The sweater belongs to Patsy...she lent it to Ariana Pugh on the 23d of December. Most likely Ariana removed it in JonBenet's bedroom and placed it on the bed.

Patsy, Burke and JonBenet are the slobs...they leave their clothes right where they drop them. John is the only tidy member of the family.

John said that the sweater belonged to Patsy...but Patsy says here that it belonged to JB.

21 Okay. How about number 2?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, see, that's the
23 pillow there.
24 THOMAS HANEY: Okay.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Her Christmas
0243
1 sweater.
2 THOMAS HANEY: When is the last
3 time she wore the Christmas sweater?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know
5 exactly.
6 THOMAS HANEY: Would that be where
7 it would end up?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
9 THOMAS HANEY: So not unusual?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
11 THOMAS HANEY: Okay. And you're
12 pointing in number 2 to this pink clothing item?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
14 THOMAS HANEY: Can you identify
15 that?
16 TRIP DeMUTH: You can see it better
17 on photo 3.
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, okay. That's
19 the -- looks like a little pink pajama top, with
20 long underwear.

 

[JMO8778]

JMO8778,

The rope fibers can mean many things, not least, a prior staging later abandonded, with the rope being sourced from JAR's room? Alternately JonBenet was cleaned up and staged in some manner in JAR's room?

why would they do that? that might implicate JAR?

The cord and rope are separate material one is I assume, hemp and the other is nylon.

from the pics,yes,they do look different,like the one in JAR's room was a thick one.

JonBenet appears to have been asphyxiated by the nylon cord, appears is the operative word since I am not entirely convinced, she may have simply been manually strangled then the nylon ligature and paintbrush handle added in the basement to mask the manual strangulation?

possible,but she was still alive for the paintbrush injury staging,which seems to have occured bet. the manual and ligature,would you agree? I can't recall your sequence of events.Is it possible she was manually strangled to unconsciousness,then carried to the basement,staged injury inflicted(and perhaps she awoke and screamed here???),then ligature strangled to death?

 

[UKGuy]

why would they do that? that might implicate JAR?

from the pics,yes,they do look different,like the one in JAR's room was a thick one.


possible,but she was still alive for the paintbrush injury staging,which seems to have occured bet. the manual and ligature,would you agree? I can't recall your sequence of events.Is it possible she was manually strangled to unconsciousness,then carried to the basement,staged injury inflicted(and perhaps she awoke and screamed here???),then ligature strangled to death?

JMO8778,

why would they do that? that might implicate JAR?

Sure and so there is a motive for changing the staging?

possible,but she was still alive for the paintbrush injury staging,which seems to have occured bet. the manual and ligature,would you agree?

Possibly or before she was manually strangled?

I can't recall your sequence of events.Is it possible she was manually strangled to unconsciousness,then carried to the basement,staged injury inflicted(and perhaps she awoke and screamed here???),then ligature strangled to death?

Yes this is possible, but the odds are on her being dead prior to reaching the basement?

The missing piece of the jigsaw is the piece of the paintbrush handle that has never been recovered, was it left inside JonBenet, was this an attempt to mask a prior acute sexual assault?

If we could determine which was which then we could reconstruct a sequence, currently there is no sure way to eliminate the possibility that her acute vaginal injury did not occur first.

Assuming it was Patsy who constructed the garrote, was it her who inserted it inside JonBenet, and if this was done in the basement why is there no blood on the blankets, or is there?

Why then hide it all, clean her up, redress her in size-12's, there is something wrong here, I guess it must be my sequence of events?

I can only think that the assumption that the paintbrush caused her to bleed may be incorrect?


.
.

 

[DeeDee249]

I don't recall ever seeing much about forensic evidence from that white blanket JBR was wrapped in. I'd love to know if it did have any urine stains, fibers or wood shards in it. I do recall that what was first thought to be a pubic hair was found, later this hair was identified as an ancillary (arm) hair belonging to PR. Now, that raises a flag as far as I am concerned. Anyone could see how PR's hair would be on her daughter's blanket- she strips the wet sheets every day. BUT this blanket supposedly came right from the basement dyer (LHP mentioned the blanket was always washed and dried in the heavy-duty washer/dryer in the basement, but sheets were washed in the smaller stacking set outside JBR's room.

There was a thick hemp rope found in a brown paper bag in JAR's room, I believe. This was exactly like the rope seen in photos of JBR with braids dressed in jeans and a checked shirt, kind of a county-girl look for one of her photo shoots. I don't know if it is the SAME rope, but it looks like it.

Speaking of JAR's cowboy- themed Christmas tree- as we all know, PR went over the top that year decorating for the Colorado Christmas house tour, and nearly every room had it's own tree, with the kids' trees having personalized themes. JAR's had little cowboy boots and hats, and the rope was proably used as garlend. That reminded me of the story of the "mysterious cowboy boots" found next to JBR's bed in Charlevoix, and the bed looked like it had been slept in. It was thought some "intruder" (sound familiar?) broke in and slept in JBR's bed. And left barefoot, I suppose.
Didn't anyone ever think it was JAR? I mean, he was the one who had the "cowboy" thing. Anyone know if he had cowboy boots?

 

[armywife210]

I don't recall ever seeing much about forensic evidence from that white blanket JBR was wrapped in. I'd love to know if it did have any urine stains, fibers or wood shards in it. I do recall that what was first thought to be a pubic hair was found, later this hair was identified as an ancillary (arm) hair belonging to PR. Now, that raises a flag as far as I am concerned. Anyone could see how PR's hair would be on her daughter's blanket- she strips the wet sheets every day. BUT this blanket supposedly came right from the basement dyer (LHP mentioned the blanket was always washed and dried in the heavy-duty washer/dryer in the basement, but sheets were washed in the smaller stacking set outside JBR's room.

There was a thick hemp rope found in a brown paper bag in JAR's room, I believe. This was exactly like the rope seen in photos of JBR with braids dressed in jeans and a checked shirt, kind of a county-girl look for one of her photo shoots. I don't know if it is the SAME rope, but it looks like it.

Speaking of JAR's cowboy- themed Christmas tree- as we all know, PR went over the top that year decorating for the Colorado Christmas house tour, and nearly every room had it's own tree, with the kids' trees having personalized themes. JAR's had little cowboy boots and hats, and the rope was proably used as garlend. That reminded me of the story of the "mysterious cowboy boots" found next to JBR's bed in Charlevoix, and the bed looked like it had been slept in. It was thought some "intruder" (sound familiar?) broke in and slept in JBR's bed. And left barefoot, I suppose.
Didn't anyone ever think it was JAR? I mean, he was the one who had the "cowboy" thing. Anyone know if he had cowboy boots?

*sarcastically* well doesn't everyone sneak in to the home of their parents in the middle of the night, slip off their boots and go to bed.... and leave barefoot???
I have never heard anything about this. When did this happen??????
Wow, Patsy must have a following of really weird psycho maniacs.... and they are everywhere.
It sounds like someone has read too much "goldilocks" to me.

 

[JMO8778]

I don't recall ever seeing much about forensic evidence from that white blanket JBR was wrapped in. I'd love to know if it did have any urine stains, fibers or wood shards in it. I do recall that what was first thought to be a pubic hair was found, later this hair was identified as an ancillary (arm) hair belonging to PR. Now, that raises a flag as far as I am concerned. Anyone could see how PR's hair would be on her daughter's blanket- she strips the wet sheets every day. BUT this blanket supposedly came right from the basement dyer (LHP mentioned the blanket was always washed and dried in the heavy-duty washer/dryer in the basement, but sheets were washed in the smaller stacking set outside JBR's room.

There was a thick hemp rope found in a brown paper bag in JAR's room, I believe. This was exactly like the rope seen in photos of JBR with braids dressed in jeans and a checked shirt, kind of a county-girl look for one of her photo shoots. I don't know if it is the SAME rope, but it looks like it.

Speaking of JAR's cowboy- themed Christmas tree- as we all know, PR went over the top that year decorating for the Colorado Christmas house tour, and nearly every room had it's own tree, with the kids' trees having personalized themes. JAR's had little cowboy boots and hats, and the rope was proably used as garlend. That reminded me of the story of the "mysterious cowboy boots" found next to JBR's bed in Charlevoix, and the bed looked like it had been slept in. It was thought some "intruder" (sound familiar?) broke in and slept in JBR's bed. And left barefoot, I suppose.
Didn't anyone ever think it was JAR? I mean, he was the one who had the "cowboy" thing. Anyone know if he had cowboy boots?

I kinda doubt that ever happened...why would an intruder leave his boots?
The R's lie so much anyway.If they'd said they found potato chip crumbs in the carpet,yes,but boots? I don't think so.