JonBenet's murder was a Premeditated Murder?

[UKGuy]

The picture of JBR's bed in the crime photos shows a pink garment that seems to be one half of the pink pajamas. Many kids place pajamas under their pillow after one wearing. This is so they can be worn again without placing them back in a drawer with freshly washed clean PJs.
PR mentions she couldn't find the bottoms, so she pulls on the long johns instead. If the pink garment shown is the top, that can explain the long johns. In lifting away the pillow, the bottoms may have been grabbed up with the pillow and missed. There seems to be another pink bit of fabric at the end of the bed under the pillow- this may be the bottoms.
It isn't unusual to leave a shirt worn in the day on a tired child when dressing them for bed. I myself have done that with my own child; I am sure many moms have done the same. So the explanations about the long johns may actually be factual. Just because the Rs lied about what happened to their daughter doesn't mean there wasn't some events that were factual.

DeeDee249,

PR mentions she couldn't find the bottoms

Well she of course she would , she needs some excuse for redressing JonBenet at all. Why bother, why not just leave her in her underwear, then she might not awaken. Why must she be dressed in longjohns, what part does it play in the Ramsay staging for surely this is what it represents.

Was Jonbenet not wearing those PJ's on Xmas morning, is she not pictured wearing them, and Patsy doesn't know where the bottoms went, why should she care or bother? If that actually is the PJ bottoms at the bottom of the bedroom crime-scene picture then her story is totally suspect. Thats if you don't already reckon JonBenet never ever made it to bed, hence the pj's lying on the bed.

 

[UKGuy]

I have a theory about those black velvet pants that JBR wore to the White's and a toileting accident.
When PR is being interviewed and shown photos by LE, she is specifically asked about a pair of black child's pants shown in a photo. The pants contain underwear that is visibly soiled. In a photo, it would not be apparent what material the pants were made of. They'd just look black. When asked, PR says that they look like JBR's "play pants" (as opposed to "dress pants" like the velvet pants). She is also asked about the soiling, and specifically asked about when those pants were last worn, and how long they may have lain (in their soiled state) on the floor. PR glosses right over this, saying that, yes she doesn't wipe well, so that's why they are soiled, etc.
It is pretty much an established fact that JBR wore black velvet pants to the White's. They should have been SOMEWHERE in that house if they were not on the body. If PR undressed JBR in her room and pulled off the black velvet pants from a sleeping JBR they should have been somewhere in that bedroom. If she was awake, they could have been in her bathroom. I believe the photo LE was asking about shows black pants in the bathroom. I don' t ever recall seeing that a pair of child's black velvet pants and panties soiled with fecal matter were ever taken into evidence. Where did they go? Those pants in the photo likely contained the original panties that she wore to the White's. I have never read of what became of those pants. I DO know that the Rs should have been asked to turn over to LE ALL the clothes that she had worn that day BEFORE they even left the house. They were not.
I guess we can thank Aunt P for the removal of those clothes.

DeeDee249,
From memory the black velvet pants were found on the other bed in JonBenet's bedroom. Also did John not say he took off JonBenet's coat and her shoes as she lay on the bed, but her coat was discovered in the car and her shoes by the door. So was Patsy telling a sleeping JonBenet to take her coat off on the way back from the Whites, or did a wide-awake JonBenet do this, remember the childrens habit of casting off their clothes?

It would have been a smoking gun if the pants on the bathroom floor had been the black velvet pants with soiled size-6's inside them. The PDI would then be the stronger theory. Consensus has it that its the jeans and panties JonBenet was wearing in the afternoon prior to visiting the White's. Likely as not dropped as per their rich-kid habits of discarding their clothing, in the context of the Ramsey household it would represent a wholly unremarkable event, since thats what Patsy hired LHP for. Patsy stated she walked past them without even noticing them on possibly more than one occassion, and in the process nearly slipping up, is testimony to this.

 

[UKGuy]

..well,a child's skull isn't as hard as an adults,still,she was hit with such force...some ppl use that as an excuse to say a parent couldn't have done it..I don't think that at all.
Patsy's 'Lazarus' line makes me suspicious that she really did want her dead,and that it was done intentionally...IOW-she used that line to make it appear she *didn't want her dead...IOW,'raise her from the dead, b/c I don't want her to be dead!!!!',when she really did.



yes they were evasive as well,still,they all had to sit down and figure out what to say b/f the interviews took place,so I wonder what all exactly was taken into account when they came up w/ it.


I got ya.

right.

it appears they were trying to hide something...someone being able to feel the head injury right away perhaps? to direct attention to the garrote as cause of death...Patsy may not have realized what all an autopsy entails.



the only thing about that is Patsy asks the interviewer,when seeing the photos of her bed 'I don't see any blood,do you?'.To me that suggests the head injury occurred in her room,with JB possibly laid out flat on the bed,and that could be the reason the pillow was moved.


right,I think it was done just to hide the manual strangulation by her shirt collar,and direct cause of death to that.

indeed,while someone could have lost their temper and not realized their own strength,it's also possible it was done intentionally and with intent to kill...*not that it was planned in advance,but was a decision made in the heat of the moment.also consider the scream heard ended abruptly...it sounds as though she was silenced on purpose..


it does,I agree.

Deedee has a pretty good explanation for that...perhaps she had an accident and Patsy was trying to undress her,since Dr Spitz she had a shirt on,and a struggle ensued from there.Patsy loses it,strangles her w/ the shirt collar,then hits her on the head w. the flashlight after she screams.JR is getting undressed,and he hears her and comes running....she is unconscious,they put her flat on the bed to see what,if anything,can be done,any blood that occurred from the injury is wiped away from her head,and JR removes her shoes at some point,b/f carrying her to the basement.
I also think she was placed down in the hallway where the RN was found,since JR tried to account for his underwear fibers there...maybe someone thought about calling 911,since the phone was right there...but for whatever reason,that idea was nixed and she was taken to the basement instead,so BR wouldn't see her.


in haste,perhaps Patsy didn't realize they were there when she moved the pillow..although it appears they wanted something thicker to put on her,to hide the staged injury? maybe the Barbie gown was nixed for that reason as well.

Deedee has a pretty good explanation for that...perhaps she had an accident and Patsy was trying to undress her,since Dr Spitz she had a shirt on,and a struggle ensued from there.Patsy loses it,strangles her w/ the shirt collar,then hits her on the head w. the flashlight after she screams.JR is getting undressed,and he hears her and comes running....she is unconscious,they put her flat on the bed to see what,if anything,can be done,any blood that occurred from the injury is wiped away from her head,and JR removes her shoes at some point,b/f carrying her to the basement.
I also think she was placed down in the hallway where the RN was found,since JR tried to account for his underwear fibers there...maybe someone thought about calling 911,since the phone was right there...but for whatever reason,that idea was nixed and she was taken to the basement instead,so BR wouldn't see her.

JonBenet probably kicked her own shoes off at the door, we can infer she may have been hot and warm since her coat was left in the car, maybe she also removed her own socks so to move easily around the house?

The likely reason for JonBenet being strangled by her shirt is that she was being restrained. An adult has no need to fight with a six-year old girl, the imbalance in power is a given. Was JonBenet pulling away and Patsy pulling her towards her thus asphyxiating her, thats the most charitable interpretation, but this is your daughter, she's not a doll, why allow it to proceed to such an extent that shortly afterwards its necessary to whack her savagely on the head?


.

 

[DeeDee249]

I think PR threw herself on the body with her "Lazarus" speech for one reason- to cover the fact that she had "handled" the body before; to provide an explanation for her fibers. Actually, didn't they Rs already try to do this? When asked to explain how they thought PR's jacket fiber got wound into the garrote and on the sticky (inside) of the tape, they were told it happened when she threw herself on the body.
Why do you think JR claims to have give a clearly- dead, cold, stiff JBR mouth-to-mouth resuscitation? Not to mention that FW made no mention of seeing him do this and he was RIGHT there. He did this to explain how any fibers or DNA from him may have gotten there.

 

[Ames]

I think PR threw herself on the body with her "Lazarus" speech for one reason- to cover the fact that she had "handled" the body before; to provide an explanation for her fibers. Actually, didn't they Rs already try to do this? When asked to explain how they thought PR's jacket fiber got wound into the garrote and on the sticky (inside) of the tape, they were told it happened when she threw herself on the body.
Why do you think JR claims to have give a clearly- dead, cold, stiff JBR mouth-to-mouth resuscitation? Not to mention that FW made no mention of seeing him do this and he was RIGHT there. He did this to explain how any fibers or DNA from him may have gotten there.

Yep, that is exactly why they did what they did...and is also the reason that John picked her up and carried her body upstairs. Now WHY the heck would he do that?? Everyone knows that you don't touch a murdered body...because you risk destroying evidence. He did it to explain any fibers away.

 

[UKGuy]

I think PR threw herself on the body with her "Lazarus" speech for one reason- to cover the fact that she had "handled" the body before; to provide an explanation for her fibers. Actually, didn't they Rs already try to do this? When asked to explain how they thought PR's jacket fiber got wound into the garrote and on the sticky (inside) of the tape, they were told it happened when she threw herself on the body.
Why do you think JR claims to have give a clearly- dead, cold, stiff JBR mouth-to-mouth resuscitation? Not to mention that FW made no mention of seeing him do this and he was RIGHT there. He did this to explain how any fibers or DNA from him may have gotten there.

DeeDee249,
Curious that, how both parents went out of their way to make contact with JonBenet's body? Patsy is on record as stating she never went near the wine-cellar, so how come her fibers are embedded in the garrote knotting or on the underside of the tape found on JonBenet's mouth?

Was John not wearing clean clothing that morning, fresh from his cleansing shower, what would they have to do with any prior fibers? Also you could reasonably expect some of the parents dna to found on JonBenet.

I don't think either Patsy or John benefited from touching JonBenet that day except to confuse matters further. e.g. moving JonBenet from the wine-cellar to upstairs destroys the integrity of the wine-cellar as a crime-scene and casts doubt on any future forensic claims. Did the Ramseys realize this or was it simply done for dramatic effect, I suspect the latter.

 

[nohat]

I am sorry, but if I found my child's body that way I would NOT leave it in the cellar to preserve a crime scene. To me it would still be my child, not a "crime scene". My mind would be so far from thinking about the trial to come...

 

[UKGuy]

I am sorry, but if I found my child's body that way I would NOT leave it in the cellar to preserve a crime scene. To me it would still be my child, not a "crime scene". My mind would be so far from thinking about the trial to come...

nohat,
Well there you go, we all have our unique individual take on someone elses death.

My mind would be so far from thinking about the trial to come...

Of course there would be no need to meditate upon a trial if you played no part in your child's death.

In this case there were only four people in the house that fateful night and they were all Ramseys, one ended up dead. So the remaining three become prime suspects, particularly when there is no forensic evidence linking an intruder to the crime-scene.


.

 

[JMO8778]

I am sorry, but if I found my child's body that way I would NOT leave it in the cellar to preserve a crime scene. To me it would still be my child, not a "crime scene". My mind would be so far from thinking about the trial to come...

I would certainly check to see if there were signs of life...given none,I think I would be careful about preserving the crime scene so we could figure out who did it in case there was any evidence there...telling FW to 'stand back,don't come in any further', and of course, 'GO GET LE !!!' I think I would be still myself until someone from LE arrived on scene,so I didn't further contaminate it.
You might be surprised at what you would do...yes, you'd be shocked and devastated,but you're next thought would be 'ok,what can I do now to get the person who did this??!!! not further contaminating the scene would be a good start!!'

 

[Solace]

nohat,
Well there you go, we all have our unique individual take on someone elses death.


Of course there would be no need to meditate upon a trial if you played no part in your child's death.

In this case there were only four people in the house that fateful night and they were all Ramseys, one ended up dead. So the remaining three become prime suspects, particularly when there is no forensic evidence linking an intruder to the crime-scene.


.

Does anyone know if John was ever questioned about JonBenet's coat being in the car. As I recall, he said he carried her upstairs and removed her coat? Am I wrong?

 

[UKGuy]

Does anyone know if John was ever questioned about JonBenet's coat being in the car. As I recall, he said he carried her upstairs and removed her coat? Am I wrong?

Solace,
I'll have to plead ramnesia and say I forget, but here is some of JR's interview statements on the important stuff.

3 August 29, 2000

2 Q. We asked Mrs. Ramsey about the

3 Bloomi's underpants that JonBenet was wearing

4 when she was found murdered, and we are

5 trying to kind of track those from purchase

6 to her. And again, I suspect you probably

7 don't have detailed information --

8 A. No.

9 Q. -- about your child's underwear,

10 but you can see why I need to ask the

11 questions; right?

12 A. Right.

13 Q. We believe that they were

14 purchased in November of 1996. Were you

15 aware of their existence before JonBenet's

16 death?

17 A. No, but I wouldn't have been.

18 But I mean, I -- what I know is what was

19 asked of Patsy when she said, you know, we

20 were on a trip to New York. She bought

21 them and I think had planned to give them to

22 her niece, who is older than JonBenet, and

23 then they, for some reason, decided that

24 JonBenet would have them. I don't know if

25 she wanted them or if Patsy gave them to

0092

1 her, but --

2 Q. The niece that they were purchased

3 for, I think, was Jenny Davis?

4 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).

5 Q. Do you recall approximately how

6 big she was in 1996? I know it is a tough

7 question.

8 A. She's either a junior or a senior

9 in high school now. And she's fairly

10 stocky.

11 Q. Was there anything about the

12 Bloomi's underwear that was particularly,

13 other than the fact that they come from

14 Bloomingdale's, fascinating that caused them

15 to be, you know, JonBenet would talk about

16 them or something, like I have these cool

17 panties that have the days of the week,

18 anything that would direct your attention to

19 them?

20 A. No, no.

21 Q. As far as the size, they were for

22 an 85-pound girl. Were you aware she was

23 wearing these real big panties?

24 A. Only after the fact.

25 Q. After the fact?

0093

1 A. Yeah.

2 Q. Our information that we developed

3 from the grand, well -- after the grand

4 jury, actually, were you unaware of any

5 incident where JonBenet had any accidents at

6 school where she would have to go into the

7 extra panty box that most grammar schools

8 keep for young kids? Do you have a memory

9 of an incident that is contrary to that?

10 A. At school?

11 Q. Yes.

12 A. No.

13 Q. (By Chief Beckner) Did you, the

14 night of the 25th, did you help undress

15 JonBenet?

16 A. I did. I think I was asked that

17 before, but I don't -- I mean, I at least

18 took her shoes off, I believe, later on. I

19 carried her upstairs, laid her in bed, took

20 her shoes off. I don't know if I took her

21 coat off.

22 Usually what I would do is try to

23 get her semi-ready for bed because it wasn't

24 infrequent she would fall to sleep when we

25 came home like that, before we got home.

0094

1 Patsy would come in, get her in bed totally.

2 Q. I guess what I mean is, did you

3 notice at that time whether she was or was

4 not wearing underwear?

5 A. I mean, I think I would have

6 noticed if she wasn't. But I don't

7 remember. I really don't.

8 Q. Do you recall if you took her

9 underwear off?

10 A. No, I'm sure I did not.

Boulder Police Interview April 30, 1997

About what time, that kind of thing, just give me brief (inaudible) of what happen.

JR: Uh, it was probably 8:30 p.m., quarter to nine when we left as I recall. And uh, we had gift baskets for the Walkers, for the Stines, for the Franks, and we left the White’s and we took a basket to the Walkers; as I recall Patsy went in and I stayed in the car; we drove to the Stines and did the same thing, uh, and debated on whether to go to the Franks or not, but it was getting late and that was a ways away, so we decided to go home. So we probably got home about nineish, nine-fifteen I think, drove in the back through the alley into the garage. Uh JonBenet had fallen fast to sleep. Uh, I carried her inside and took her upstairs and put her in bed, put her on her bed. Uh Patsy came up behind me, and then I went down to get Burke ready for bed, he was down in the living room, working on a toy he got putting it together, and tried to get him to go to bed because we had to get up early the next morning, but he wanted to get this toy put together, so I worked with him on that for 10 15 minutes probably; and then I took him up to bed and got his pajamas on, probably brushed his teeth, and then I went up stairs from there and got ready for bed. I read her a little bit. The lights went out around ten-thirtyish or ten-forty.

TT: How did you sleep Christmas night?

JR: I took a Melatonin tablet because I wanted to get to sleep fast because we had to get up early, and I slept through the night.

TT: Now is that Melatonin an over the counter or prescription drug?

JR: Over the counter.


...

...


TT: Did Burke follow you guys in, or did you have to go back down to the car to get him out of the car?

JR: No I think he came in, I don’t think he was asleep.

TT: Okay. Were you in JonBenet’s room when Patsy got her bedclothes on?

JR: No, I don’t think so, not that I can remember.

TT: What was JonBenet wearing when you carried her upstairs?

JR: She had on a white sweater with a silver star and black pants and black vest, and that what’s she had on that night.

Note no mention of undressing JonBenet, and she was not wearing a coat!


Now he remembers removing her coat or shoes!
JUNE 23RD, 1998 , Lou Smit et al

10 So, anyway, I took her upstairs, laid her on the

11 bed. Usually what I would do, and I remember

12 either taking her shoes off or taking her coat

13 off, kind of getting her sort of started and then

14 Patsy took over getting her into bed. I went down

15 stairs --

16 LOU SMIT: How did you get downstairs?

17 JOHN RAMSEY: Probably the back stairway,

18 which is normally how I would have gone up and

19 down. But I'm not really sure.

20 LOU SMIT: But that's from --

21 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. I started to get Burke

22 into bed; get him ready. And he was sitting in the

23 living room working on a toy, an assembly little

24 toy he got for Christmas. And I could see that I

25 was going to get him to go easy. So I sat down and

0115

1 helped him put it together to try to expedite the

2 process. So we did that together and it took us

3 ten or twenty minutes, I guess. And then he went

4 up to bed. And then we went up to bed. And I think

5 we used the front stairs (INAUDIBLE).

Interview Patsy Ramsey 1998

25 PATSY RAMSEY: Back door out to the patio.

0338

1 These are some gifts that were in the bags.

2 TRIP DEMUTH: In the lower right-hand corner

3 of photo 60 those are the bags of presents that you

4 talked about earlier.

5 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.

6 TRIP DEMUTH: Otherwise that is fine.

7 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.

8 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay.

9 PATSY RAMSEY: That looks like the inside

10 door to the patio.

11 TRIP DEMUTH: Sixty-one.

12 PATSY RAMSEY: That looks like it would be in

13 the locked position. Dead bolt.

14 TRIP DEMUTH: Sixty-two.

15 PATSY RAMSEY: My messy garage. That is

16 looking out over the car, the door that leads out to

17 the patio. Christmas declarations there.

18 TOM HANEY: Is that door pretty much locked

19 or is it used. It looks likes it is --

20 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, it is locked around this

21 time of the year because I had all of these Christmas

22 ornament boxes out there, but it is usually locked.

23 TOM HANEY: In the garage there, the garage

24 door itself.

25 PATSY RAMSEY: The big one here.

0339

1 TOM HANEY: Yeah. Was that down in the

2 morning?

3 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.

4 TOM HANEY: Do you remember closing it when

5 you got home that night, or did John?

6 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't remember specifically

7 that. We usually came in, closed the door, hit the

8 button.

9 TOM HANEY: Pretty much routine?

10 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.

11 TOM HANEY: Photo 63.

12 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh.

13 TRIP DEMUTH: Which vehicle did you take to

14 the lake, was that the white Jaquar, is that what that

15 is?

16 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). Yeah, I'm almost

17 sure. Yeah, I think it is. And there is JonBenet's

18 coat back there.

19 TRIP DEMUTH: Is that the coat she wore that

20 night?

21 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. I think so.

22 TRIP DEMUTH: Sixty-four.

23 PATSY RAMSEY: This is the door between the

24 cloak room there out to the garage. These are bells in

25 the back door. This door was definitely kept unlocked.

0340

1 TOM HANEY: Could you hear the bells if you

2 opened the door?

3 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.

4 TRIP DEMUTH: Could you hear it from the

5 bedroom?

6 PATSY RAMSEY: Doubtful. This is the hallway

mmm, is this a mix up?

 

[JMO8778]

Note no mention of undressing JonBenet, and she was not wearing a coat!

ok,but doesn't Patsy say somewhere that JR carried her to bed,took her coat and shoes off,and she finished getting her ready for bed?

 

[UKGuy]

ok,but doesn't Patsy say somewhere that JR carried her to bed,took her coat and shoes off,and she finished getting her ready for bed?

JMO8778,
Yes I reckon so, but they changed their story too.

Atlanta 2000 interview Patsy Ramsey

12 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Did you help

13 JonBenet get dressed for the Whites'

14 Christmas Day '96?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Did you do this by yourself or

17 did John help you too?

18 A. No, John did not help me.

19 Q. You told us that you changed

20 JonBenet's clothing when she came home to put

21 her in clothes to sleep?

22 A. Correct.

23 Q. Did John assist in that process?

24 A. He, I believe, took her coat off,

25 maybe her shoes.

0175

1 Q. Okay. As far as putting the

2 longjohns on her for sleeping purposes, did

3 you do that alone?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. While you were at the Whites'

6 house, if JonBenet went to the bathroom, did

7 either you or he ever go in to help her for

8 some reason that you can recall?

9 A. I did not.

10 Q. Do you have a recollection of

11 John having to go in and help her for any

12 reason?

13 A. No.

Remember John is on record saying she was not wearing a coat!

Death of Innocence Index

Laid her on the bed, and took off her coat and shoes · 9

e.g. Excerpt from The Death of Innocence, by John and Patsy Ramsey.

Sometime around 8:30 or so, we decided to head for home; we had a big trip ahead of us in the morning and needed to leave on time so we could arrive in Minneapolis by 11:00. Besides, Patsy wanted to drop off a couple of gifts on our way home from the Whites'. We pulled up the driveway at the Walkers' and Patsy took a small package to the door, talked for a few minutes, and returned to the car. Then we drove over a few blocks to the Stines' house. Patsy had bid on three gift baskets at a recent silent auction benefit, and she and Burke took one of the baskets to their door. We had another basket in the trunk of the car intended for our friends the Fernies, but decided it was too late now to make any more visits. We would deliver their gift when we returned from Michigan.

After leaving the Stines', we returned to our house and drove down the narrow alley to our garage at the back of the house. I pushed the automatic garage door opener and we rolled in. On the way home, JonBenét had fallen fast asleep in the back seat. I got her out of the car and carried her upstairs to her room, laid her on the bed, and took off her coat and shoes. I was amazed at how sound asleep she was. It had been a long day for her. Patsy came in to finish getting JonBenét ready for bed.

.

 

[JMO8778]

...reminds me of them changing their story about BR being asleep..they change their stories so much it's enough to make anyone's head spin ! as far as DOI,they tell so many lies in it it's pathetic.

 

[Ames]

I am sorry, but if I found my child's body that way I would NOT leave it in the cellar to preserve a crime scene. To me it would still be my child, not a "crime scene". My mind would be so far from thinking about the trial to come...

If I found my child's body, I wouldn't run to it and scoop it up...and then take it up the stairs. Why didn't John just yell for help? Instead...he says..."I FOUND HER!"...as he comes up the stairs. WHY did he feel the need to remove her? The authorities could have came to HER alot easier. John didn't have to remove evidence...(tape, etc.) and bring her upstairs. This did not help matters.

 

[Ames]

...reminds me of them changing their story about BR being asleep..they change their stories so much it's enough to make anyone's head spin ! as far as DOI,they tell so many lies in it it's pathetic.

Yeah, its kinda hard to take off a coat that was left IN THE CAR!

Not only the not asleep, asleep story...but, also John told THREE different people at different times that he read to JB that night...then said that ALL THREE of them were mistaken..and that what he really said was...is that HE read, not that he read to JB.

 

[weasel]

<<Picture of the victim's skull>>

No one will ever be able to convince me that injury happened after being slammed against something. No way. I would have to believe that injury was the result of being smashed in the head with a very solid, blunt object by a very strong person.

 

[JMO8778]

..or someone in a rage...a child's skull isn't nearly as hard as an adult's,and Patsy could have done it,yes indeed,in fact I think she did.I suspect it was doen by the flashlight that was wiped down and sitting on the counter.

 

[BBB167893]

There's another possible factor at work here, weasel: leverage.

Let me lay this one on you: I come up behind a person my height with a baseball bat and swing. Being right-handed, I would swing from right to left from behind my right shoulder and catch the person on the back of the head.

Now, I come up on a person on his knees, or a six-year-old, about the same height. I plant my feet firmly in a wide stance and swing from over my head like an ax. This way, I am able to put my whole body into the chop with nothing in the way. Think about it.