Just Patsy, only Patsy

[Blue Bottle 01]

Just throwing this out there... What if the murder and ALL the staging was Patsy?

Bingo!

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

And if we saw all that hidden evidence, we'd have no doubt who committed the murder. Where is all that evidence stashed anyway? In some warehouse?
Good to see you back KK. (I was a shy lurker during most of your posting here.)

I think of how much walked out the door and into a police cruiser by Pam Paugh courtesy of Bolder PD. She loaded it down... truck, backseat and drove off. No inventory, nothing at all.

 

[BOESP]

I think of how much walked out the door and into a police cruiser by Pam Paugh courtesy of Bolder PD. She loaded it down... truck, backseat and drove off. No inventory, nothing at all.

Iirc, criminalists were still processing the house when Ms. Paugh entered so who gave the order to allow her to enter and collect whatever it was she collected (if I ever knew who, I've already forgotten)?

 

[noonie]

Sad to say the case can be solved in each persons theory but, it will never be solved.

 

[Venom]

I think of how much walked out the door and into a police cruiser by Pam Paugh courtesy of Bolder PD. She loaded it down... truck, backseat and drove off. No inventory, nothing at all.

I saw that among the things were an oil painting....out of all the things to take at that time, why an oil painting? That struck me as odd. And the fact that JR asked her if she got his golf clubs.

 

[Let_Forever_Be]

Just throwing this out there... What if the murder and ALL the staging was Patsy? Perhaps John figured it out at some point and decided he wasn't single dad material and his business would suffer,so he shut up.. Perhaps it was simply denial.

I've thought about this too Linda.

Infact, Patsy doing it alone would make alot of sense. At the very least it would help resolve some of the issues I have with aspects of the story. But then, I still have nagging doubts.

I guess if you subscribe to Dale Yaeger's theory that this was a religiously zealous crime motivated by Patsy then it could work.

I think Patsy wrote the ransom note. She is also placed at the crime scene what with her fibres being intertwined in the garrote. She was very religious in that whole slightly crazy way. The references in the ransom note to '118' and the open bible at Psalms 118 ( I think this is true?). The fact JonBenet was 'bound' like a sacrifice similar to the bible passage etc. I can see how Patsy fits in.

Didn't some think John Ramsey only became involved in the coverup later on? But then why were his wool fibres in his daughters crotch area? It's all so perplexing.

But I simply cannot ignore Patsy.

 

[Eldee]

Here is good link from Fox news. I recently floated over to this murder case, so I am not sure if you have read this. Victory SBTC ( saved by the cross ) good read..

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011...eys-killer-15-year-anniversary-retrospective/

 

[BOESP]

Here is good link from Fox news. I recently floated over to this murder case, so I am not sure if you have read this. Victory SBTC ( saved by the cross ) good read..

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011...eys-killer-15-year-anniversary-retrospective/

Thank you Eldee. Some of us have been at this so long that we have become senior citizens with failing memories ... 17 years ... still no Intruder. A good refresher news article is very helpful and Welcome to JonBenet's board.

 

[ShadyLady]

I don't know why, but I just can't leave this mystery alone.

I think both parents abused JB. And I find it creepy that John R chose to volunteer with a group that helped young girls in India that were forced into prostitution.

 

[dodie20]

Here's my worst case scenario 'just Patsy, only Patsy' theory. PR was the abuser of JB and her death was a result of escalated abuse. JB was bashed in the head, her hair was pulled out by the roots, she was strangled with a rope and she was sexually assaulted. Somebody did these things to her. Instead of trying to figure out who staged what and why, consider that maybe every act was a part of the abuse and her body was left in that sorry condition because LE finding her was never part of the plan. I don't usually think this dark and I prefer to give PR the benefit of the doubt, but if you take away the benefits, what you're left with is an abused, battered, murdered body. And if LE found a body in that condition in a poor man's house, the parents would be arrested. moo

 

[ShadyLady]

Here's my worst case scenario 'just Patsy, only Patsy' theory. PR was the abuser of JB and her death was a result of escalated abuse. JB was bashed in the head, her hair was pulled out by the roots, she was strangled with a rope and she was sexually assaulted. Somebody did these things to her. Instead of trying to figure out who staged what and why, consider that maybe every act was a part of the abuse and her body was left in that sorry condition because LE finding her was never part of the plan. I don't usually think this dark and I prefer to give PR the benefit of the doubt, but if you take away the benefits, what you're left with is an abused, battered, murdered body. And if LE found a body in that condition in a poor man's house, the parents would be arrested. moo

BIG question.....why didn't PATSY search the house and find JB???

I would have torn the house apart....all she did is sit on couch, call friends and cry....suspicious. imo

 

[cubbeegirl]

BIG question.....why didn't PATSY search the house and find JB???

I would have torn the house apart....all she did is sit on couch, call friends and cry....suspicious. imo

And when JonBenet's poor little body was brought upstairs she didn't even rush into the room with everyone else...

 

[dodie20]

BIG question.....why didn't PATSY search the house and find JB???

I would have torn the house apart....all she did is sit on couch, call friends and cry....suspicious. imo

The main thing I would have done differently was yank BR out of bed. Checked his room for JB since she might have been in there, asked him if he knew or heard anything and then dragged him everywhere I went in case the intruder was still in the house. Kind of strange that they didn't want to disturb his sleep. Note or no note, there are certain places a parent would check before calling cops. Her own room, her brother's room, geesh, in case, (hopefully), it was the kids playing a sick joke.

 

[Let_Forever_Be]

BIG question.....why didn't PATSY search the house and find JB???

I would have torn the house apart....all she did is sit on couch, call friends and cry....suspicious. imo

You know, how we would react in theory and how we react in practice can be two different things.

I used to be on board the Patsy did it train. Even a few 'log-ins' ago I felt this way.

But what if, on reading the note Patsy went into a panic, couldn't function and called the police? The note said not to call the police -- maybe, as the 911 call suggests, Pasty was so panicked she didn't even read the whole note, instinctively called the police etc.

 

[madeleine]

How JB was buried bothers me a LOT....(pageant outfit,crown)....maybe it was the final "victory" over JB (who maybe got tired of the beauty parade)?it could also show that busy daddy didn't really know what went on in his own home or maybe didn't even care?these pageant moms treat their girls more like accessories...don't really care about their child's feelings and opinions...

 

[questfortrue]

How JB was buried bothers me a LOT....(pageant outfit,crown)....maybe it was the final "victory" over JB (who maybe got tired of the beauty parade)?it could also show that busy daddy didn't really know what went on in his own home or maybe didn't even care?these pageant moms treat their girls more like accessories...don't really care about their child's feelings and opinions...

Don't forget the scarf purchased by JR and wrapped around JB's neck when she was buried. (Some sort of ritual between JR and JB?)

Pro PR did it all, arguing for a PR did it all. We can’t leave out the sexual assault on JB. From what I’ve read, it’s a horrendous situation when a mother becomes a sexual abuser of her children, because of such access to a child. There are starting to be more studies of female sex offenders/abusers. This website shares a little info about the offenders and the families. website http://mdsa-online.org/profiling-the-abusive-family/ I’ve started looking at PR as the killer, but primarily as a reaction/emotional explosion of some sort in the household.

Con PR did it all, arguing against her as the female sexual abuser. PR had JB in to see the doctor on numerous occasions, risky if she was genitally abusing JB. JB was becoming clingy to PR in December, showing some abuse escalating. If PR did it all, why is there a dictionary with the word “incest” dog-earred; why does she call the police, and, IMO, it was not part of the plan and was something that infuriated JR. Witness his response to the “awake” BR. Could be he was angry with BR, could also be he was mostly furious with PR for disrupting the plan and calling the police. In fact there was one hang-up call to 911, before the second call went through.

While I don't lean towards PR did it all (including the sexual abuse), can certainly see her breaking that night. All moo

 

[madeleine]

Don't forget the scarf purchased by JR and wrapped around JB's neck when she was buried. (Some sort of ritual between JR and JB?)

Pro PR did it all, arguing for a PR did it all. We can’t leave out the sexual assault on JB. From what I’ve read, it’s a horrendous situation when a mother becomes a sexual abuser of her children, because of such access to a child. There are starting to be more studies of female sex offenders/abusers. This website shares a little info about the offenders and the families. website http://mdsa-online.org/profiling-the-abusive-family/ I’ve started looking at PR as the killer, but primarily as a reaction/emotional explosion of some sort in the household.

Con PR did it all, arguing against her as the female sexual abuser. PR had JB in to see the doctor on numerous occasions, risky if she was genitally abusing JB. JB was becoming clingy to PR in December, showing some abuse escalating. If PR did it all, why is there a dictionary with the word “incest” dog-earred; why does she call the police, and, IMO, it was not part of the plan and was something that infuriated JR. Witness his response to the “awake” BR. Could be he was angry with BR, could also be he was mostly furious with PR for disrupting the plan and calling the police. In fact there was one hang-up call to 911, before the second call went through.

While I don't lean towards PR did it all (including the sexual abuse), can certainly see her breaking that night. All moo

no matter how hard I try I can't believe JR was just a naive Goofus fooled and manipulated by PR....if she was the one who actually killed JB ,he has something to hide as well

 

[dodie20]

I had good friends that lived down the street from me. One day, the husband brought a little puppy home. He was so excited, but the wife was ticked. She was meticulous with the house and they already had a dog, so she threw a fit and said he couldn't come in. Seriously, this puppy caused some ongoing arguments. Anyway, it got real cold outside and the wife still refused to let the puppy in, so the husband rigged up a little area on their screened in back porch with a heater and blankets. A couple of days later she called and told me the dog had died. She said her husband was furious and told her that he knew she killed the dog. She said he had his finger in her face yelling, " Sonya, (name change), what did you do? Don't lie to me, you hated that dog". And then she told me, "I didn't want him dead, I just wanted him gone". I stewed on this and then came up with a plan. We went to their house and I pretended to think that the dog might have contracted a contagious disease and recommended they take him to the vet and get him tested.. so the neighbors would know if they needed to get their own dogs checked. They were whole heartedly agreeing that he had caught something, but they wanted no part in getting him tested. The husband said he had taken him to the woods, and when I said I'd get somebody to go to him and test him, he said he buried him and couldn't remember the exact location. So, in private, he was very accusatory and knew exactly what was up, but around us, it was a whole different story. I think he chose to give her the benefit of the doubt, thinking since he wasn't there he didn't know what really happened. Kinda shows how someone can live in denial. I don' know if this is what went on with the Rs, but it's possible.

 

[otg]

Last month, Dr. Frederick Zugibe died. Zugibe was the Chief Medical Examiner for a county in New York. In addition to being known internationally for his forensic studies on the Shroud of Turin, he co-wrote a book titled Dissecting Death. Besides writing in this book about all the mistakes made by Dr. Meyer in JonBenet’s autopsy, he wrote something interesting in a chapter about the Sandra Pankow murder case. She ran a day-care where three children died (supposedly) from SIDS while in her care during a five-year period of time. After the third child died, the bodies of the other two were exhumed and reexamined. When she was arrested, a lot of people came forward with information about things that had happened that made them suspicious of her. Dr. Zugibe writes:

Yet, as one newspaper reporter asks in the middle of the trial, “Why is it that all these people waited so long to tell the horror stories that they are telling now?” Hints of an answer may be found, I believe, in a statement made by one of the jurors several months after the trial. “It’s never nice to think that the people in your town are monsters,” she said. “We all prefer, I think, to think the best of others, and to turn away from the possibility of evil until someone comes along and shakes us, and says, ‘Look, look -- here’s the bloody truth!’”
​

Earlier in this particular chapter while telling about his being subpoenaed to testify, Dr. Zugibe prefaced this case with the following, which I see as relating to how so many people tend to view events in the death of JonBenet:

“More to the point, I was hereby being summoned to provide expert testimony in a trial that would once again drive home to me a definitive rule of forensic psychology: When unspeakably wicked events happen in quiet, wholesome places -- or, to put it another way, when ordinary people are confronted with the horror of naked evil -- their tendency is to deny the evidence of their reason and senses; sometimes -- often, perhaps -- to an irrational degree.”
​

R.I.P., Dr. Zugibe.

 

[dodie20]

Last month, Dr. Frederick Zugibe died. Zugibe was the Chief Medical Examiner for a county in New York. In addition to being known internationally for his forensic studies on the Shroud of Turin, he co-wrote a book titled Dissecting Death. Besides writing in this book about all the mistakes made by Dr. Meyer in JonBenet’s autopsy, he wrote something interesting in a chapter about the Sandra Pankow murder case. She ran a day-care where three children died (supposedly) from SIDS while in her care during a five-year period of time. After the third child died, the bodies of the other two were exhumed and reexamined. When she was arrested, a lot of people came forward with information about things that had happened that made them suspicious of her. Dr. Zugibe writes:

Yet, as one newspaper reporter asks in the middle of the trial, “Why is it that all these people waited so long to tell the horror stories that they are telling now?” Hints of an answer may be found, I believe, in a statement made by one of the jurors several months after the trial. “It’s never nice to think that the people in your town are monsters,” she said. “We all prefer, I think, to think the best of others, and to turn away from the possibility of evil until someone comes along and shakes us, and says, ‘Look, look -- here’s the bloody truth!’”
​

Earlier in this particular chapter while telling about his being subpoenaed to testify, Dr. Zugibe prefaced this case with the following, which I see as relating to how so many people tend to view events in the death of JonBenet:

“More to the point, I was hereby being summoned to provide expert testimony in a trial that would once again drive home to me a definitive rule of forensic psychology: When unspeakably wicked events happen in quiet, wholesome places -- or, to put it another way, when ordinary people are confronted with the horror of naked evil -- their tendency is to deny the evidence of their reason and senses; sometimes -- often, perhaps -- to an irrational degree.”
​

R.I.P., Dr. Zugibe.

Good stuff, otg, thanks for posting. I'll tell you why some people wait to tell certain things, including myself...because an incident, by itself, usually can't stand alone. Unless we physically witness something, it's not like we can run to the cops and blurt out, 'I can't prove this, but I think so and so committed a crime', so we just wait and watch. Like with the woman I talked about earlier. A few years after the dog incident, she left her husband for another man and they moved out of state. A few years later, I ran into the ex and he told me that her husband had just died of a heart attack. My 1st response was, 'do you think she had something to do with it'? He was like, "well....you know how Sonya, (name change), is". Ends up she got a $250, 000 insurance payout and went on a wild spending spree, and she didn't share a dime with his kids...who the husband had left, right along with their mother, to be with my friend. As far as I know, she was never investigated-which was weird if you ask me, because the idea of a newspaper delivery manager being insured for a quarter of a million dollars, should have rung some alarms, kwim? I could have gone to the police and told them about the dog, but I couldn't prove a thing, and cops want proof, and really, a dog isn't a person. I could have told them about her love for money and her scams and about how she got her husband fired from his 1st newspaper job, because she got caught stealing, but a thief doesn't make a murderer. In the big picture, nothing I know about her background means a thing. If she had been investigated, I would have talked, along with some other 'friends', I'm sure, but it would have been about her character, nothing about her husband. She had gotten some kind of home health certification, and in my gut I knew she wouldn't have thought twice about swiping drugs from an elderly patient. You know though, when I found out about her husband, it shook me up pretty bad, because I felt like I was dealing with my former best friend, crossing a line and committing murder. I knew her very well, I knew all about her childhood, and I understood how emotionally messed up she was. I'm not kidding...after her ex husband told me, I thought of that puppy and remembered her saying she didn't want him dead, she just wanted him gone. In my mind, I could hear her say of her husband, "I didn't want him dead, I just wanted the money". Coincidentally, when reading about PR, I often think of this friend...a lot of similarities in their personalities, and probably why I tend to not dislike her as much as other people do. all moo