Karr's psychological profile on Wendy Hutchen's site...OMG!

[LovelyPigeon]

Wex Karr lived with the woman who would be his 2nd wife for several years while still married to his 1st wife (I think the mother was committed for several years and theior divorce was along the lines of how you divorced mentally ill people back then).

So you don't have a link to support the above statement as fact.

Thanks.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

So you don't have a link to support the above statement as fact.

Thanks.

All I have to do by is the reports made by ABC, MSNBC and others which have been linked to hell and gone on these pages, plus my ability to count and add two and two together and get four.

Wex Karr was divorced from his 1st wife in 1973.

His son by his second wife was born in 1972.

The family friend described the second Mrs. Karr as being a tenant in Karr's apartment house he owned who had watched his marriage go to hell and that they had lived together for several years before hand. I would assume Karr was waiting for his divorce to go through and living seperately from his wife in a common law relationship.

It is now being widely reported by the family that the first Mrs. Karr attempted to kill both children when Karr was 4 and his older brother 9 by setting them on fire and that Karr had little or no memory of his mother growing up, suggesting she was not around him. I don't know if this is the same attempt on the child's life as earlier reported or if she had attempted to burn her children alive more than once. It is also said that they were sent to live with the grandparents in Alabama, at least for a time, after this happened.

Karr's mother died in 2000 while living ina rest home in Pennslyvania. She would have been 59/60 at the time, which is very young for being in such a place. I suspect this woman was more or less institutionalized from the late-60s on.

Clearly nothing Karr says about his relationship with his biological mother can be relied upon. For one thing, he claims she was killed when he was a boy, which is utter hogwash. He was at least 35 when she died. I don't doubt she tried to kill him and was committed, because that has been documented. But the claims of sexual abuse by her are either fabricated or being projected upon a more suitable "villain" by Karr.

 

[gaia]

Billygoatgruff said, "Clearly nothing Karr says about his relationship with his biological mother can be relied upon. For one thing, he claims she was killed when he was a boy, which is utter hogwash. He was at least 35 when she died. I don't doubt she tried to kill him and was committed, because that has been documented. But the claims of sexual abuse by her are either fabricated or being projected upon a more suitable "villain" by Karr."

Why do you think the sexual abuse was made up by Karr? On what do you base your opinion? Is it just an instinctual belief or do you have some knowledge? I was just wondering because I thought the idea his mother might have sexually abused him was very plausible.

gaia

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

Billygoatgruff said, "Clearly nothing Karr says about his relationship with his biological mother can be relied upon. For one thing, he claims she was killed when he was a boy, which is utter hogwash. He was at least 35 when she died. I don't doubt she tried to kill him and was committed, because that has been documented. But the claims of sexual abuse by her are either fabricated or being projected upon a more suitable "villain" by Karr."

Why do you think the sexual abuse was made up by Karr? On what do you base your opinion? Is it just an instinctual belief or do you have some knowledge? I was just wondering because I thought the idea his mother might have sexually abused him was very plausible.

gaia

I DO think he was sexually abused. Just not by a woman.
The gender confusion displayed by Karr is more often seen in men who were sexually abused early in life by a same sex abuser, usually one close to them emotionally.

To be blunt, Karr was a pedophile's cream dream victim--a small, intelligent boy with a mother in an insane assylum, an older father with no apparent interest in raising him who kept passing him over to considerably older relatives to take care, and possibly burderned with a learning disorder that made social integration difficult. Its the pedo jackpot.

I think Karr projected his sexual abuse onto the mother he didn't truly know because it was easier to handle psychologically and keep him from looking "queer". It probably DID happen, but not with the person he claims did it.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

We don't even know for certain that Karr told Wendy Hutchens that his mother sexually abused her. He might have, he might not have. It's not a for-certain to me yet.

IF he did, Karr may have been told by a brother or father that his mother had abused him, or by evil-minded classmates, or by someone who wanted him to dredge up memories he didn't actually have, or through his own imagination to explain why he was attracted to children for sexual fulfilment. Who can tell at this point?

There are some pop-psych theories out there that propose that anyone who has sexual identification problems and/or inappropriate sexual attractions just MUST have be sexually abused by one parent or the other. Or both.

 

[lovebites]

She taped the calls with the FBI's help. It's because of her gaining his confidence that they got him on the child *advertiser censored*. Unfortunately they didn't see any evidence that he harmed any child, so child *advertiser censored* was all they charged him with and he fled the country.

I don't see this rancor toward Wendy Hutchins, assuming she is somehow unbalanced. She was a guest of Larry King, Paula Zahn, and Nancy Grace, all of whom felt she was believable. The Sonoma police dept. issued a press release confirming she worked for them to get Karr to talk about his crimes against children.

If she wrote the profile it was with the help of the investigators, and it was based on his own taped words. This is not a crackpot loon trying to glorify herself. This is a look into the mind of a dangerous criminal. People are shooting the messenger.

She met Karr because she knew Richard Davis (killer of Polly Klaas) from childhood, lived on the same street, and wrote to him asking if he knew about the death of someone else she knew. Because at the same time Karr was writing to Richard Davis, he put her in touch with Karr through some website. She explained all this on LKL today, there is probably a transcript on line if you want more exact details. Then when she began seeing how disturbed Karr was she went to the police, and from then on taped his conversations for them.

Have you come across anything you can provide a link to that suggests Wendy Hutchins is a qualified criminal profiler?
It's great that she's got these tapes if they do indeed end up aiding a conviction (providing he's guilty) but I seriously question the sanity of anyone who would befriend (and remain friends with long term), someone who admits to being attracted to little girls and confides in you that he brutally murdered a child. Don't get me wrong, I believe that those tapes are of him - I do have an issue with (by way of that document online) Wendy Hutchins implies that she is qualified to conduct a psychological criminal profile.

 

[aspidistra]

It's hard to take the psychological profile as gospel truth, since I came across other accounts of his life. The family spokesman gave a long interview with a completely different timeline. Until there is further investigation I'll take the timeline in this profile with a grain of salt.

We do not know if John was molested by his mother up to age 9 as he claimed, or whether that was something the profiler added in by mistake, or whether the attempted murder was when he was a baby as one report had it, or when he was 4 or 5 as the family spokesman stated.

It seems much more plausible that she would have been committed immediately after trying to kill both her sons by lighting a fire on a blanket they were on. And most sources agree she was committed in 1969 when John would have been 4 or 5. He turned 5 that year in December.

 

[kazzbar]

Have you come across anything you can provide a link to that suggests Wendy Hutchins is a qualified criminal profiler?
It's great that she's got these tapes if they do indeed end up aiding a conviction (providing he's guilty) but I seriously question the sanity of anyone who would befriend (and remain friends with long term), someone who admits to being attracted to little girls and confides in you that he brutally murdered a child. Don't get me wrong, I believe that those tapes are of him - I do have an issue with (by way of that document online) Wendy Hutchins implies that she is qualified to conduct a psychological criminal profile.

I also have a big problem with her psychological profile of Karr. How does she know he was not feeding her absolute rubbish?
What makes her qualified to publish this then put it on the internet as truth.
While I admire her for making the tapes and actually pursuing Karr, i do not like the profile she has done or the fact that she did it. In fact, it makes me a little angry.

 

[aspidistra]

Have you come across anything you can provide a link to that suggests Wendy Hutchins is a qualified criminal profiler?
It's great that she's got these tapes if they do indeed end up aiding a conviction (providing he's guilty) but I seriously question the sanity of anyone who would befriend (and remain friends with long term), someone who admits to being attracted to little girls and confides in you that he brutally murdered a child. Don't get me wrong, I believe that those tapes are of him - I do have an issue with (by way of that document online) Wendy Hutchins implies that she is qualified to conduct a psychological criminal profile.

I saw your question after I already posted what I think today. I've done a lot more researching on the web and see that John was known to lie and I really am going to just keep that in mind when it comes to the stories he supposedly told Wendy Hutchens. The profile seemed like it was from his own words but if he lies and fabricates things at will, we don't know what really happened without other evidence.

I do not think Wendy is qualified to be a profiler. I don't know if a professional did the profile from information she gave him from the tapes. The profile is not signed. I only know she claimed that the FBI and Sonoma county police set her up to secretly record Karr and try to get him to admit crimes against children. They told her to pretend she was a child molester, to gain his confidence. I think they used her, she let them use her, and I think she had good motives as she was not in it for the lurid ambulance chasing reasons some people think. Richard Davis the killer of Polly had been a neighbour of Wendy which was why she contacted him with a question about a relative of hers. By chance he put her in touch with Karr, after which Wendy became alarmed by things he said and called police. So it's clear she was not befriending Karr. The police told her to keep talking to him. They have since put out a press release saying Karr never confessed to any molestation or murder in the tapes. They did send the info to Boulder police. Obviously, all the police and FBI determined in 2001 that a man talking about crimes and imagining how the killer might have felt, and then playing those tapes out of context, is not a confession.

Possibly the tapes won't be used in court, I don't know. It's all horrible but I admit there is no concrete evidence in the tapes.

 

[newtv]

Hi Southerngirl, Thanks for the profile. I want to read it but the type is so tiny I can't, and for some reason my 'puter won't bring the size up hardly any. Is there any way you can enlarge the print so us 'oldsdters' can read it easier.

Thanks Scandi

if u save it as a picture then open it with explorer u can use the zoom tool

 

[lovebites]

It's hard to take the psychological profile as gospel truth, since I came across other accounts of his life. The family spokesman gave a long interview with a completely different timeline. Until there is further investigation I'll take the timeline in this profile with a grain of salt.

We do not know if John was molested by his mother up to age 9 as he claimed, or whether that was something the profiler added in by mistake, or whether the attempted murder was when he was a baby as one report had it, or when he was 4 or 5 as the family spokesman stated.

It seems much more plausible that she would have been committed immediately after trying to kill both her sons by lighting a fire on a blanket they were on. And most sources agree she was committed in 1969 when John would have been 4 or 5. He turned 5 that year in December.

I definitely agree that it's likey his mother was committed shortly if not immediately after attempting to kill her child/ren. It will be interesting to see the date she was committed.

 

[lovebites]

I saw your question after I already posted what I think today. I've done a lot more researching on the web and see that John was known to lie and I really am going to just keep that in mind when it comes to the stories he supposedly told Wendy Hutchins. The profile seemed like it was from his own words but if he lies and fabricates things at will, we don't know what really happened without other evidence.

I do not think Wendy is qualified to be a profiler. I don't know if a professional did the profile from information she gave him from the tapes. The profile is not signed. I only know she claimed that the FBI and Sonoma county police set her up to secretly record Karr and try to get him to admit crimes against children. They told her to pretend she was a child molester, to gain his confidence. I think they used her, she let them use her, and I think she had good motives as she was not in it for the lurid ambulance chasing reasons some people think. Richard Davis the killer of Polly had been a neighbor of Wendy which was why she contacted him with a question about a relative of hers. By chance he put her in touch with Karr, after which Wendy became alarmed by things he said and called police. So it's clear she was not befriending Karr. The police told her to keep talking to him. They have since put out a press release saying Karr never confessed to any molestation or murder in the tapes. They did send the info to Boulder police. Obviously, all the police and FBI determined in 2001 that a man talking about crimes and imagining how the killer might have felt, and then playing those tapes out of context, is not a confession.

Possibly the tapes won't be used in court, I don't know. It's all horrible but I admit there is no concrete evidence in the tapes.

I was wondering how this Wendy had gotten involved with him. I was under the impression that they'd already formed a kinship due to their mutual interest in the Polly Klass case and that after he'd begun opening up to her and eluding to being involved with the JB murder, she contacted FBI and the taping of the calls had begun. I must have been misinformed or made an assumption.

 

[mysteriew]

Keep in mind the document in question is affected by two things- Karr's perception of the events, and Hutchens interpatation of the things he told her.
Maybe she allowed him to sleep with her and he got erections, maybe when she was bathing him he got erections. And maybe then she reprimanded him for those erections (some parents are shocked by that and would reprimand). Leaving him to justify himself that what she was doing to him felt so good, that she caused those erections and so she must have been sexually abusing him. (actually that is the impression I got reading the Hutchens document). It isn't spelled out in the document where the touching was, just gives an impression.
I think his behavior as an adult indicates that he was sexually abused as a child, but by who is questionable. It could have been her- or it could have been someone else- as someone said, many boys who are abused will deny it because they think it means that they are gay. And Karr had attractions to females, so he knew he wasn't gay. He just didn't stop to think that his attraction to young females was a result of that possible sexual abuse.

 

[lovebites]

I also have a big problem with her psychological profile of Karr. How does she know he was not feeding her absolute rubbish?
What makes her qualified to publish this then put it on the internet as truth.
While I admire her for making the tapes and actually pursuing Karr, i do not like the profile she has done or the fact that she did it. In fact, it makes me a little angry.

You worded this so much better than I did!
It's that she's publishing her "profile" as though it's factual (as you said) that is troublesome. She seems to have confused the ability to press "record" on a device with being able to provide a clinical/professional/psychological criminal profile.

 

[Bobbisangel]

She has more than 20 hours of documented and taped conversations with the guy.......who knows how long they were communicating before she freaked and contacted LE? I find her to be credible

I believe that I heard that she contacted the FBI and they got the equipment for her to record him. I don't know what they did with the info if anything but they did have her record him if memory serves.

 

[Bobbisangel]

I agree.Saw larry King about 10 mins ago and but could not help wondering about her motives. Not really sure why she was so keen to contact Polly Kass's killer. I do not give psychological evaluation much credibility because we do not know who wrote it and it is speculative if they have not met Karr.This is all getting wierder by the hour. I think they have the man. Just feels right to me.it is all fitting together only thing wrong is whether he was in Boulder or not. I think they already have his unofficial DNA and it matches the undies, the fingernails or something else we do not know about.

If his DNA was in Boulder then he must have been there. Just his DNA being on those underpants would be good enough for me. I really don't care if they can prove he was there or not. That is proof enough that he was there for me.

 

[Bobbisangel]

A pedophile and sexual molester has specific criteria for the victims they choose which is evidenced by the profile which states:

"John is a pedophile who loves little girls . . ."

Boys were not JMK's things-- girls were/are. That's not to say that all molesters only prefer one sex. There are many who just love children, in general. He doesn't happen to be one of those, however-- his thing is girls and *that's* what turns him on (as horribly horrific, disgusting and nearly unforgiveable as that mere thought is). Consequently, his boys or any boys wouldn't do a thing for him, sexually. And, molestation is the physical manifestation of a perverse sexual fantasy that molesters seek to gratify and they generally speaking they do not seek an alternative outlet that would not satisfy that psychological/sexual gratification because there simply is no alternative outlet for them.

I could be totally off-base here but I pray that I am not, simply for the sake of his sons. I pray that he stuck with his "preference" and left his own children alone. I'm not saying that molesting *any* child is acceptable but, there should be some special punishment here on earth that should be reserved for a "parent" that crosses that particular line with their own child, be it biological, adopted or step-child (and I use the term "parent" loosely for a molester/child sexual predator NEVER satisfies even the simple, most liberal definition of a 'parent').

Vacationwarrior

P.S. Yes, I know he doesn't consider what he did "molestation" because "he and JBR loved one another" (not verbatim but, that's basically what he said). But that's the way molesters think-- they don't "molest"; they "love". Puke, gag, shoot, bang.

Shades of Michael Jackson....he loooooooooooooves children...."it's all about love". I can hear that pervert now talking in his soft little voice about his love for children. :furious:

 

[Camper]

This psychological profile, if the real thing, is beyond sick, and may explain the psychopathology of John Karr and where his pedophilia came from (his mother). Unfrigginbelievable....

http://www.wendyhutchens.com/photos/Psych%20Profile%20of%20John%20Mark%20Karr/1/7/

Incredible crazy stuff!! I did read all three pages and scrolled through the other 4 pages of phone messages.

I began digging for more info on Wendy Hutchens. I have seen her on TV of course too.

Here is a link that gives a bit more info on her, BUT it has a lot of INFORMATION WITH LINKS on the right side about the case, Karrs family interviews, Boulder police reports etc.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/9715792/detail.html

Incredible information on your thread, thank you. I think that his life was ruined by his nutcase mother, who in turn had hers ruined by her family.

Breaking the chain of abuse is the order of the day, and HOW do we do that?

.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

Given what we now know about Karr's propensity to lie his balls off, I think it's safe to assume virtually everything he said about his mom (except the trying to kill him and his brother part) is utter horse hockey.

 

[RJML]

Late to this party but I just read that and IMO it is pure BS.

How on earth can people say he was lying abut the stuff he said in thailand (as most here seemed to have from early on) yet some of the same people believe what he "may" have said to this Wendy lady was legit? If a liar lies about one thing he can lie about another thing.

Guess this is just one of those cases where people will pick and choose what they wish to regard as truth/fact.

IMO this "psychological profile" is utter CRAP and was just to try and get this Wendy lady her 15 minutes.

But hey, people can keep thinking/believing what they want. I don't care.