KatieCoolady Holds 'Court' - The Dedicated KCL Thread

[LadyEdith]

I want to share something along the lines what our thread Prethident Lady Edith posted earlier about sometimes things not being as they seem...and a better plan unfolding that you may not know about or see at the time.

Please forgive if I'm repeating myself but this bears repeating now I think.

When the verdict came in I was with my brother who broke in to tears, put his hand over his tearful eyes and said "I feel just like I did when they let Rudi off Death Row". They argued for 7 years to get the man who slit my sister's throat AND his brother who masterminded the plot for money off DR on a mental retardation claim. It was completely insane if you knew the facts of the case. But as soon as the Supreme Court issued a ruling that the mentally retarded cannot be executed many DR inmates become mentally retarded overnight including Cindy's killers. It was kind of a "test case" in AZ with one trier of fact , a Judge who ruled EVERYTHING for the defense and nothing in our favor. I could go on and on about the abuses levied at my family during those years --far worse than anything we ever experienced during the criminal process (which was very very mild) up to the moment of the resentencing of the one let off death row where his attorney turned and addressed me in open court offering me and my family an apology.

Right before I stepped up to kick his *advertiser censored** with a Victim Impact Statement.

Anyway, it was horrible, just horrible and exhausting and devastating. To watch my then 78 yr old father in court every day, testifying, reliving 18 years later and the ways we were disrespected and flat out abused, just horrible. And then, one of them was granted the reprieve. Horrifying. Luckily he was given consecutive life WITH parole sentences so he will be a. never let out of prison and b. forgotten.

This case brought up all that again for my dear brother.

But after hugging and crying, I sat him down and reminded him of the reality of that situation. It was a very healing conversation for us to have as Alfonse really fell apart during those trials and we just never really talked about all that..now was the time.

Those brothers were on the same situation JA will likely get--23 hrs per day in max security BUT their cells were above each other so they could communicate all day in their native tongue thru the vents. What a luxury for that kind of deprivation. Imagine if JA was in a cell all day with someone she actually cared about (cough) in a cell next to her she could talk to all day vs well nobody. it was huge..and a huge LOSS. So we lost our sister, they ultimate lost each other when one was let off DR and moved to an entirely different part of the State. The only way they will ever lay eyes on each other again is if the one invites the other to his execution. Careful what you ask for. Poetic justice.

It's funny because in a convoluted slam at me, Kiefer mentioned that appeal and how I've "never been the same since" while at the same time blaming ME for "changing in to a completely different person" (he did not mean this as a compliment). Odd as he's not even seen me since that time at all. It was clear he was making a statement about how the DP "ruins" victim's families but at the same time it's our own fault because we agreed to the DP in the first place. He was really using it as an example to bolster all the slams at the Alexanders he was making as if all the horrible things they were hearing about Travis was their own fault for not taking the plea. This is how convoluted these things get. Pure "blame the victim" plain and simple.

But I digress...because the moral of this long tale is that even though the result of that arduous appeal was devastating to us, in the long run it ended up MUCH BETTER. He got separated from his brother meaning a deeper punishment for them BOTH and at the same time, people stopped appealing for him and he ended up. ..............forgotten and locked away for life where we don't have to hear about him again.

See what I mean? There could be something going on here that has a silver lining we just can't see right now. And that's where I really want to do my best to stay open to.

This IS a good vs evil story at play here and I believe with all my heart the GOOD will prevail.

In the meantime, I want to keep supporting the family as really that's the only thing that truly makes sense to me and I can have some control over.

Ok...long winded post...thanks for indulging me and hope it rings somewhere in some of you too.

xoxo

This is exactly what I am getting yet. The deepest healing, health, and happiness for the beautiful Alexander family may come in a package we don't first recognize as a gift.

I am thinking about Steven's wife and daughter right now--and all the other families and lives put on hold. I am sure they are distressed by the prospect of this going on and on, but they get their family members back right now! Childhood is so swift and precious---just think how elated Steven's wife and daughter are right now because they get him back in their lives more consistently.

I know many think there will be no closure or moving on until the sentence of death is imposed, but that is a luxury that may be a long time in coming. Life must go on, and the living must be given time, attention, and space to live and breathe their own lives. The murderer is guilty, and will remain so. She will be sentenced, too. As we hear about the jury foreman's thoughts and ideas it makes me even more grateful for the verdict---and glad to see him released from his duties. If this trial doesn't receive a spectacular grand finale it means there will be less drama, less lives disrupted by obsession and fascination, less energy focused on the one who thrives on it (be it good or bad).

KCL that is such a great story about ultimate justice coming to Cindy's killers---I hope your brother eventually felt less turmoil--and maybe even peace--about the re sentencing.

Just think, if ja received "death", and then something similar happened to her sentence, what would the reaction be? I think that scenario is very likely. I guess I will assume that the killer will receive the best ultimate sentence. And I am going to assume that I may not know exactly what that will look like.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

Good morning everyone! I've never been a fan of the death penalty because down the line, in the appeals, the perpetrator becomes a victim of the system. Lawyers flock to the case if it is high profile and spout much as Jennifer Willmott did in her rebuttal on Wednesday. Candle-light vigils are held outside the prison walls with protestors holding up signs to save the condemned. There is publicity all over the place. This murderer, if condemned to death would get this stellar treatment. She would absolutely love it. She would be the center of attention yet again.

I thoroughly respect the family's wishes and my prayers are with them. I hope they get the decision that will help them find peace in their hearts. I'm behind them all the way. I have a bit of money coming in soon and will send it as Katiecoolady posted. It won't be enough to solve all their problems, but it will help.

I've seen bits and pieces of the Foreman's blather here and there. He got hooked into her manipulation at first sight. The first words out of his mouth were about how her appearance didn't match the vicious crime she committed. I thank Goodness he voted for M1 and the aggravating factor. Somehow, he understood the concepts, but when it came to mitigation, he managed to scrape up enough to convince himself she was not deserving of death. So be it. I'm so over him at this point.

I would like to hear from just ONE of the other jurors to hear the opposing POV.

I do believe in Karma; which ever way the next jury goes, or if a "deal" for LWOP is made, it will be the correct decision.

My own Karma is definitely working here. Back in December, DH and I were deciding which free cruise we would take. Well, not totally free, we have to pay for flights and hotels. I nixed any cruise that left port before June. I somehow knew that this trial would linger far longer than anticipated.

As a result, one of my personal 1000 places to see before I die will be met. I will spend 10 days cruising the Norwegian Fjords! Even better, I will have time to relax and enjoy my life and reconnect with DH before the next phase begins in July. My biggest prayer is that there are no further delays.

While she may be in her solitary cell with shackles and belly chains in the interim, SHE needs to hustle her bustle on down to Perryville to learn that she won't be doing anything to benefit society (HAH!) for the rest of her miserable life.

Katie, thank you for keeping us all on an even keel through these rough waters. You are the one who is doing a lot to benefit society in your chosen profession and your avocation of helping the victims. I have infinite respect for you, your brother, and father.

 

[molly333]

I'm confused.. she confessed so how could she have been innocent?

She confessed to self defense.

 

[LadyEdith]

Carried over from another thread, obviously. This was post with which Lady E. won my
heart forever. Pithy, razor sharp and communicated with perfect brievity. Reminds me of Dorothy Parker, and, if I'm not mistaken, she may be paying hommage to Edith Head with the name she choose to post under. She encompasses many of the things I treasure (pithiness, brevity, a possible shout out to Edith Head and can write the perfect sentence "It's blackout time."

:drumroll:

Blushing---I'm glad you pulled that post--I'm sure it applied to JW after Thursday night as well.

I started my "lady edith" handle as a tribute to the Downton Abbey character, then tried to think of other Ediths I could honor. I used a picture of Edith Head next. Maybe next will be Edith Bunker. You are a sweetie.

 

[LadyEdith]

LOL I love you KarmicLaw. My friend Joi and I have a plan to drop our JodiArias weight gain this summer...maybe we need a support group thread for this..I'm sure we're not the only ones. :floorlaugh: You crack me up!!!

This is so funny. The other day as I was looking at Nurmi I thought he should have hired a personal trainer/ weight loss coach at the beginning of the trial--he could have undergone a complete transformation during the trial. At least he would have felt the something valuable was accomplished during that time.

 

[Tiki]

I read a bit about Perryville Prison yesterday. From what I saw, even if CMJA got LWOP, she would be tormented if not tortured. It made me feel better...a bit.

I'm with those who, after hearing the juror talk, wonder how she was even sentenced to M1. I wonder if something happened before the penalty phase to change the outlook of those 4 holdouts.

IMOO, the foreman might have been the only holdout at first and convinced 3 to go along. I'm proud of the 8 who did not give in. He seems like the strong-arm type to me.

 

[LadyEdith]

(post edited by me - hope that's allowed, still new around here?)

Hi KCL

I agree with all you have written - but the above in particular really jumped out at me, as they articulate exactly the feeling I have in regard to all this.

I'm a very skeptical, non-religious, non-spiritual type of person I'm afraid (I say that with regret as I'm not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing, but it's just how I've evolved) ... but one thing I do know from my own life experiences is that there is most definitely something in this 'karma' business. What goes around comes around.

I've seen it and experienced it too many times not to believe it. Sometimes it can take years ... but invariably that wheel turns full circle ... and I've seen it happen time and time again.

I won't go into personal detail but in my own life, with one individual in particular - I allowed myself to be treated very badly. I got away from that situation but it probably took me the best part of a decade to get over it, and to get back to any semblance of the person I had been before it all happened. I lost a lot of years because of that person ... and these were formative years for my children and although from the outside I was still a good parent, doing all the things that good parents do, truth is I was somewhat detached from them emotionally directly because of what I had allowed this person to do to me. Thankfully all that is now past and I'm back to my old self and my relationship with my kids is absolutely wonderful - but that's a whole other story.

Anyway ... a couple of years ago I found out this this person had really got his come uppance - big time. It was just a random thing .. I was doing some completely unconnected research on the internet and lo and behold I spot his name on a random website that came up in searches. Out of curiosity only, I clicked - it was him and oh lord had he got his just desserts!! I won't go into details but yes, it involved the law, criminal prosecution and an incredibly apt punishment. I danced out into my garden I was so happy :floorlaugh: and said a little thankyou up to the sky and whoever/whatever is up there. I knew what I was experiencing once again, was karma in action. Like I say - that has been my general experience of life - you do something bad and eventually, it may take some time, but eventually it comes back around and bites you in the backside.

I genuinely feel that will be the case with this. It's just going to take a little time to get there.

I could have written the first half of your post verbatim--but I am not 10 years out yet, just about two. It gives me hope I will return to my old wonderful self. I'm a shadow and shell of the person I used to be!

 

[Quester]

http://www.eveningsun.com/nationworldnews/ci_23314542/jury-arias-case-gives-up-after-no-consensus

Snippet from article:

"You heard (prosecutor Juan) Martinez say she was only 27. ... She's old enough that she should have known better," Zervakos said. "I didn't look at it that way. I'm looking at 27 years of an absolutely normal everyday young woman that was living a life that was perfectly normal. Then something changed the trajectory of her life after meeting Travis Alexander, and it spiraled downhill from there."

That quote was very similar to Darrel Brewer's quote to azcentral (Keifer):

It went something like, "Jodi was perfectly normal young woman until she met Travis Alexander and the PPL and the Mormon religion".

http://www.azcentral.com/12news/articles/20130520jodi-arias-darryl-brewer-interview.html

And then, I wondered how Keifer had access to what the juror question was yesterday (see page 42 or 43 of legal questions plus my original question on "how is Keifer privvy to juror questions"). Keifer removed this juror question from his article at 12:55 am yesterday. Another sleuther claimed that Keifer was bragging about seeing the juror note but when I checked his twitter account, that statement was also removed.

What the hay?

BBM - Yep, I saw it, posted it, just checked and it is still there at https://twitter.com/michaelbkiefer/status/337298844914159616.

Here's my previous post about it:

Michael Kiefer ‏@michaelbkiefer 17h
Jodi Arias jury can't decide on death penalty http://azc.cc/A1hg1
View summary

@XXXXXX 11h
@michaelbkiefer Did you actually see this note from the jury? Seems to be confusion since the judge did not state it this way? Please reply

Michael Kiefer ‏@michaelbkiefer 6h
@XXXXXX yes

 

[deb2e]

Hi there. Do you have a link? I'd love to see or read this! Makes my day:rockon:

go to the usa today website ..click on video with the foreman talking (we have all seen it) under the video there is an article that's were the information is it gives her name to .

 

[Kaddy Wonders]

Good morning everyone! I've never been a fan of the death penalty because down the line, in the appeals, the perpetrator becomes a victim of the system. Lawyers flock to the case if it is high profile and spout much as Jennifer Willmott did in her rebuttal on Wednesday. Candle-light vigils are held outside the prison walls with protestors holding up signs to save the condemned. There is publicity all over the place. This murderer, if condemned to death would get this stellar treatment. She would absolutely love it. She would be the center of attention yet again.

I thoroughly respect the family's wishes and my prayers are with them. I hope they get the decision that will help them find peace in their hearts. I'm behind them all the way. I have a bit of money coming in soon and will send it as Katiecoolady posted. It won't be enough to solve all their problems, but it will help.

I've seen bits and pieces of the Foreman's blather here and there. He got hooked into her manipulation at first sight. The first words out of his mouth were about how her appearance didn't match the vicious crime she committed. I thank Goodness he voted for M1 and the aggravating factor. Somehow, he understood the concepts, but when it came to mitigation, he managed to scrape up enough to convince himself she was not deserving of death. So be it. I'm so over him at this point.

I would like to hear from just ONE of the other jurors to hear the opposing POV.

I do believe in Karma; which ever way the next jury goes, or if a "deal" for LWOP is made, it will be the correct decision.

My own Karma is definitely working here. Back in December, DH and I were deciding which free cruise we would take. Well, not totally free, we have to pay for flights and hotels. I nixed any cruise that left port before June. I somehow knew that this trial would linger far longer than anticipated.

As a result, one of my personal 1000 places to see before I die will be met. I will spend 10 days cruising the Norwegian Fjords! Even better, I will have time to relax and enjoy my life and reconnect with DH before the next phase begins in July. My biggest prayer is that there are no further delays.

While she may be in her solitary cell with shackles and belly chains in the interim, SHE needs to hustle her bustle on down to Perryville to learn that she won't be doing anything to benefit society (HAH!) for the rest of her miserable life.

Katie, thank you for keeping us all on an even keel through these rough waters. You are the one who is doing a lot to benefit society in your chosen profession and your avocation of helping the victims. I have infinite respect for you, your brother, and father.

:goodpost: Loved this CM. What you said about KCL! The outcome. And what you said about places to see before you die. That's a big take away for me, from watching this trial and reading WS. That book kept coming up and isn't it ironic? We can see 1000 things in a day that JA will not see in the rest of her life, however it goes.
Have a wonderful cruise!

 

[LadyEdith]

DB said jodi acted normal the morning they had breakfast together. She was on her way to commit a murder. Hes not really in the position to say she ever was normal. DB has something to hide just like Patty. Thats why he said he was on his way and was stalled. A lie. JM had the goods on him just like he did on Patty.

Deedee, did you get a chance to read this analysis of the Daryll Brewer interview by Dr. Kristina Randall, this, and all her other trial essays are really well done and thought provoking. Some of the best analysis and writing about the trial I've seen.http://kristinarandle.com/blog/jodi-arias-trial-an-analysis-of-the-new-darryl-brewer-interview

 

[deanna82437]

I kept wishing there was a GOOD investigative reporter who noticed the same things we did. Are they all in each others' back pockets??

I've thought the same and my vote would have been for Troy Hayden, but just saw on Twitter that he was headed for Disneyworld to meet up with his wife and kids. Also a tweet today by MK with a link to video interview of foreman.

Maybe Ryan Owens who did a tough interview of JA for GMA?

 

[Midnight Meddler]

I read a few thousand post back on another thread that one of the alternate juror's "posted a note"? Does anyone know what that means or where the note is? I'm waiting for a juror to validate all of our thoughts. I want to hear from one of the 8 that saw her for who she is!!!

Thanks!

 

[ncgramma]

I read a few thousand post back on another thread that one of the alternate juror's "posted a note"? Does anyone know what that means or where the note is? I'm waiting for a juror to validate all of our thoughts. I want to hear from one of the 8 that saw her for who she is!!!

Thanks!

A message to you, from juror 17:

Hello all! I was sent to this page thanks to a friend of mine now that I am able to see and hear things! I was juror 17 and later on I was chosen as an alternate. I was so disappointed and upset to hear my number called after all the time and work I put into this trial! Today was a hard day for the jury but it was also a very hard day for me!! To say I am devastated is an understatement! I feel so much pain that I can't even begin to imagine what Travis's family is feeling! Although today's outcome wasn't what I wanted and probably most of you as well, I just ask that you remember we are all human and no matter which juror voted which way, it was a very hard decision for all of them! I want to send my love and prayers to Travis's family and I really hope they get the right outcome next time!!!

 

[Alexander family fan]

Please send your love to the Alexanders

Travis Alexander Legacy
2036 N. Gilbert Road
Ste 2-621
Mesa AZ 85203

 

[Lilly12]

When one says the jury did not do their duty, PLEASE, please remember eight did. From what I am hearing one woman even had tears in her eyes and mouthed I'm sorry to the Alexander family. Imagine how the 8 jurors will feel to read negative comments when they did their duty. How BETRAYED they might feel. We should be phrasing them to the roof tops. Don't be like juror #18 and include all in your comments. It annoyed me to no end when he said MY jurors. He should have said, like most say, I can only speak for myself. moo

 

[LinTX]

BBM

I've been seated as a juror four times and IMO, you are ABSOLUTELY correct with your hunch; that was my very first thought. I've BTDT, experienced it myself twice.

The dynamics of the final group of jurors can be quite different than the group as a whole before the alternates are selected (or before any jurors have been excused/dismissed). And this can be especially true if the 'natural leader' (someone who just stands out for a reason and not necessarily due to their campaigning for it) of a group (before deliberations) ends up not being part of the deliberating jury panel.

Group dynamics really can change, a lot, in certain situations as the members leave.


Can't get anywhere with "what ifs", though.

But was this foreman selected for the whole trial? I was thinking the instructions indicated that they were to pick one for this phase, and by this time they would have all known this guy's opinions from earlier deliberations. Surely, with his ego and as transparent as his emotions seem in these interviews, they had to have known him going in. So why would the majority who voted DP elect this one? Now if he was selected way back, prior to the guilt phase, I could understand it better and maybe that's the case here. I can see this guy being basically self elected. :banghead:

I'm also curious about how much a foreman affects deliberations - I want to trust and believe this jury was firm in knowing they were deadlocked, but with another foreman I guess I'm wondering if they could have overcome their differences. They really didn't stay at it very long for such a serious decision, IMO. Sigh. Just wish they could have decided one way or the other and ended this for the family!

Maybe after they've had a chance to rest up a bit over the weekend, others will come forward. But as maddening as it is to listen to him, it's something JM needs to hear. Even more than the ones who were not fooled.

 

[grammieto5]

Hey everyone Good morning  I’ve decided to step away from this fair trial for a while. My hubby is sooooooo angry with this jury; we talked for a little over two hours the night the verdict came in. He’s tired of paying for this “dog and pony” show, what he calls the DT including the expert witnesses. His reference to CMja is “dried up lizard”, ok I thought that one was funny  I am disappointed with this jury, their verdict, and very confused. They could be united on the first two and then be divided on the third? It seems as though someone lied. I believe if you are against the DP then fine, but just say you are! If you are OK with the DP except for blah blah blah, then say that, don’t wait until the very end and say nope, can’t do it. I don’t care right now about the jury. I don’t care what they have to say, not now. When I am ready to learn about them, and I know I will be, I’m way too nosey to not want to know, I will come here. I’ll read here, and watch what videos are here. And when “the Dog and Pony” show comes back around, I’ll be back here every day that it’s on. I’ll be here because of Travis’ family. What these beautiful amazing people have been forced to go through is horrible! Maybe because of this some thing will change ???

I read earlier something about a fund raiser here in Arizona. If there is some information about that would someone send me a PM so I will know about it. Thanks 

 

[Kaddy Wonders]

I read a few thousand post back on another thread that one of the alternate juror's "posted a note"? Does anyone know what that means or where the note is? I'm waiting for a juror to validate all of our thoughts. I want to hear from one of the 8 that saw her for who she is!!!

Thanks!

Sorry I don't know. But Juror #8 seemed to see it the way we did.

 

[IfIMay]

I choose to focus on the amazing 8 jurors who stood their ground and refused to let the minority choose the verdict. These strong jurors need to be applauded for the conviction to not let the few decide via having the Judge automatically sentence her to life.

Now 12 new jurors will take the facts, without the 5 months of drama, and apply the LAW.

I will support the Alexanders all the way to true justice... a verdict by a duly sworn JURY.