KS - Caleb Schwab, 10, dies on 17-story Schlitterbahn waterpark slide, Aug 2016

Presumably the insurance inspector would also have to be qualified by that same organization.

Usually, an Insurance Inspector is there for the insurance company only, to make sure the insurance company is receiving adequate premium for the risk. I am an insurance underwriter and our inspectors are only inspecting properties for our insurance purposes. If the inspector sees a safety concern the inspector is going to notify the insurance company and the insurance company will cancel their policy.

Of course regulations could be very different between states but this is my experience.

IMO
 
This article has some new details in it regarding how the brothers were separated and why he was riding with adults he didn't know.

Also, some gruesome details so be aware of that.

http://sandrarose.com/2016/08/caleb-schwab-10-decapitated-on-worlds-tallest-water-slide/

I've been to a lot of theme parks in my life and they've all had tighter restrictions than this. It's also the states fault for not implementing more stringent restrictions . Everything that could possibly go wrong, that caused this horrific event, went wrong. It's like something from a horror movie. That poor child. :cry:

And surely the two women that rode with him, knew their own weight? :thinking:
 
Totally agree.....there's no way each raft was filled to the 400 lbs capacity each time with only three riders. Good point.....if so, how would kids ever ride?

One of the early videos when the media were first to visit the ride, the reporter says the minimum weight was 440 pounds. And then there's this article after the tragedy, where a rider again mentions 440.

http://www.kmbc.com/news/verruckt-rider-says-she-was-worried-before-sundays-fatal-incident/41124008

Taylor Reagan said she and two friends were weighed together to make sure they met the 440 pound weight minimum. Then they were permitted to climb to the top of the 168-foot ttall ride.

read more on the raft itself.
 
I hope the police interviewed the ride employee at the top because if they and management at the park knew the top weight scale was faulty but knowingly allowed people to ride regardless they should be facing manslaughter charges. The ride should have been shut if the scale was faulty if as they claim "safety is our number one priority". You cannot take chances with public safety. It's a great pity Caleb had to die for the state to see regulations to ensure water park safety needed improving.

KCK police have already announced this is a civil matter, no criminal investigation is being done and there will be no police report on the incident.

Editing to add they announced that less than 24 hours after the incident.

Schlitterbahn money apparently works fast in Wyandotte County.
 
I am disgusted that this isn't a criminal investigation. I guess I don't know the laws and whatnot. But I feel like this is more than just an accident.
 
KCK police have already announced this is a civil matter, no criminal investigation is being done and there will be no police report on the incident.

Editing to add they announced that less than 24 hours after the incident.

Schlitterbahn money apparently works fast in Wyandotte County.

Aren't most cases like this civil? What would the criminal charges be?

IDK
 
Earlier this afternoon I was flipping through a magazine in my dentist's office when what did I flip to but an ad for this very ride. It was all I could do to keep my composure. I hope it's the last time they have reason to advertise it. I hope it never re-opens. Ever.
 
After looking at all the pictures and watching all the videos, how in the world can anyone assume that the netting being supported by those bars add any measure of safety?? Wouldn't common sense tell you that those bars would cause injury if the rider came out of the raft or if the raft came off the chute? I am completely baffled by how obviously dangerous this ride is . . .
 
Aren't most cases like this civil? What would the criminal charges be?

IDK

Criminal negligence?

Wouldn't running an unsafe ride with faulty straps be a case of criminal negligence?

Kansas Negligence Laws
4 549
Negligence is the legal concept of owing a duty to other people, and not meeting the standard of care that duty requires. For example, a shopkeeper should maintain a clean floor. If the floor is still wet from a coffee spilled on it hours ago and a customer slips and is injured, that could be seen as the shopkeeper’s fault for not cleaning floor in a reasonable amount of time.

The Elements of Negligence

Negligence law itself is fairly uniform from one state to the next. Typically, the elements of a negligence case are:

The defendant owed a duty to act or refrain from acting.
He or she breached that duty.
This breach of duty caused the plaintiff to be injured.
The defendant’s actions or omissions were a reasonably foreseeable cause of plaintiff’s injuries.
The plaintiff suffered some type of damage, such as medical bills, lost wages, loss of a limb, etc.

I find it difficult to understand how police can have decided that there are no grounds for a criminal investigation at this stage.

Is this state known for dubious governance? Do the park owners have undue influence over local authorities?
 
KCK police have already announced this is a civil matter, no criminal investigation is being done and there will be no police report on the incident.

Editing to add they announced that less than 24 hours after the incident.

Schlitterbahn money apparently works fast in Wyandotte County.

Wow, seriously. Considering the fact that Caleb wasn't just a normal kid without high powered parents! I'm disgusted!

This is why I said the investigation needed to be NTSB-level - as in beyond reproach.

I'm putting myself into a self-imposed time out before I say something I regret.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Criminal negligence?

Wouldn't running an unsafe ride with faulty straps be a case of criminal negligence?



I find it difficult to understand how police can have decided that there are no grounds for a criminal investigation at this stage.

Is this state known for dubious governance?

I have no idea - not a lawyer! I thought negligence in these cases typically fall under civil, but what do I know.
 
Criminal negligence?

Wouldn't running an unsafe ride with faulty straps be a case of criminal negligence?



I find it difficult to understand how police can have decided that there are no grounds for a criminal investigation at this stage.

Is this state known for dubious governance? Do the park owners have undue influence over local authorities?
IANAL but I believe this statute applies to civil law not criminal.

ETA

We need one of our verified attorneys. I've been trying to find something on the distinction between criminal and civil negligence and I'm not finding anything clear.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 
Criminal negligence?
Wouldn't running an unsafe ride with faulty straps be a case of criminal negligence?
I find it difficult to understand how police can have decided that there are no grounds for a criminal investigation at this stage.
Is this state known for dubious governance? Do the park owners have undue influence over local authorities?

Excerpt from ^ post:
"Kansas Negligence Laws
4 549
Negligence is the legal concept of owing a duty to other people, and not meeting the standard of care that duty requires. For example, a shopkeeper should maintain a clean floor. If the floor is still wet from a coffee spilled on it hours ago and a customer slips and is injured, that could be seen as the shopkeeper’s fault for not cleaning floor in a reasonable amount of tim
e.
"

^ above language seems to describe civil negligence, not criminal negligence.
W a quick search, I did not find KS criminal statute w those ^ section #'s. Any link? Thx in adv.
 
Excerpt from ^ post:
"Kansas Negligence Laws
4 549
Negligence is the legal concept of owing a duty to other people, and not meeting the standard of care that duty requires. For example, a shopkeeper should maintain a clean floor. If the floor is still wet from a coffee spilled on it hours ago and a customer slips and is injured, that could be seen as the shopkeeper’s fault for not cleaning floor in a reasonable amount of tim
e.
"

^ above language seems to describe civil negligence, not criminal negligence.
W a quick search, I did not find KS criminal statute w those ^ section #'s. Any link? Thx in adv.

http://www.accesskansas.org/RRR/RecodGenProvisions.html

KANSAS CRIMINAL CODE
..........................................................
21-201. Criminal intent.� �(a) Except as otherwise provided by law, a criminal intent is an essential element of every crime defined by this code. Criminal intent may be established by proof that the accused acted� (i) intentionally; (ii) recklessly; or (iii) was criminally negligent with respect to each material element of the crime. Proof that an accused acted intentionally shall be required to establish criminal intent, unless the statute defining the crime expressly provides that the prohibited act is criminal if done in a reckless manner, or under circumstances evidencing criminal negligent.

(b) Definitions. (i)� Intentional conduct is conduct that is purposeful and willful.� The terms �knowing,� �willful,� �purposeful,� are included within the term �intentional.�� (ii)� Reckless conduct is conduct done under circumstances that demonstrates a realization of the imminence of danger and a conscious disregard of that danger.� A conscious disregard of danger requires a gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a law-abiding person would observe in the same situation.� (iii)� Criminal negligence is conduct done under circumstances that demonstrates a failure to perceive a substantial and unjustifiable risk as to the imminence of danger.� A failure to perceive a substantial and unjustifiable risk as to the imminence of danger requires a gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a law-abiding person would observe in the same situation.

COMMENT

�� Presently K.S.A. 21-3201.� The statute is revised to clarify levels of culpability and define essential terms.� Abandoned is equating gross negligence as reckless conduct.� In the committee�s opinion, the blending of the two distinct levels of culpability is confusing and has necessitated the legislature on occasion to finesse the definition.� See, for example, K.S.A. 21-3405 which provides for a �material deviation from the standard of care which a reasonable person would observe under the same circumstances.�� This proposed revision provides for �criminal negligence� as the third and lowest level of culpability in the code and as defined is distinguishable from ordinary negligence.� The definition of �reckless conduct� clarifies that the accused must be subjectively aware of the risk.
 
Wow, seriously. Considering the fact that Caleb wasn't just a normal kid without high powered parents! I'm disgusted!

This is why I said the investigation needed to be NTSB-level - as in beyond reproach.

I'm putting myself into a self-imposed time out before I say something I regret.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

NTSB has no jurisdiction.

There has been no federal authority over permanent amusement park rides since 1981.

Theoretically, the industry has sufficient safeguards without federal involvement:

Fundamental safety measures have been in place in the industry for decades.
In addition to a thorough set of internal mechanical, electrical, design, and operational safety checks and standards, fixed-site amusement rides are subject to one or more layers of independent examination: state and local government, insurance companies, and private safety firms.

http://www.iaapa.org/safety-and-advocacy/safety/amusement-ride-safety/regulations-standards

In real world practicality, the most thorough investigation into this event is likely to come from lawsuits.

The inevitable plaintiffs interests will be best served by their attorneys vigorously pursuing potential punitive damages.

In order to do so, they will need to establish a level of gross negligence.

Getting there will require extensive discovery, particularly to include punitive damages in Kansas.

It seems possible that a wrongful death or personal injury lawsuits could be filed in the jurisdiction where the park ownership is incorporated.

That could be Texas, but that depends on how the ownership of Schlitterbahn is structured.

IANAL, but I think the civil cases may be jurisdiction shopped if it is possible to file in a state that is less plaintiff unfriendly than Kansas.

We will see where all that goes.

But as for any federal investigation, I wouldn't be holding any breath.

At the most there will be a congressional hearing or two that goes nowhere.

MOO.
 
Criminal negligence?

Wouldn't running an unsafe ride with faulty straps be a case of criminal negligence?

I find it difficult to understand how police can have decided that there are no grounds for a criminal investigation at this stage.

Is this state known for dubious governance? Do the park owners have undue influence over local authorities?

I believe he means they suspect no foul play was involved. The investigation is ongoing and their opinion is subject to change the more evidence they gather.

A spokesman for police in Kansas City, Kansas, says the death of a boy killed while riding a waterslide at a local water park is considered a criminal investigation because a death was involved. Officer Cameron Morgan said investigators didn't believe anything criminal happened, so it would be a "civil matter."

On Tuesday, he clarified that the investigation is a criminal case because a death was involved, as is standard procedure. He reaffirmed police don't believe any criminal wrongdoing occurred and are investigating to rule out that any crime was committed.

He is saying at this time he doesn't 'believe' any criminal wrongdoing occurred. That is just an opinion and not an affirmation.

http://www.ky3.com/content/news/Pol...tterbahn-in-Kansas-City-Kansas-389622462.html

I do believe they will change their opinion and find out that indeed it is a criminal matter especially if it is true about the straps just being there for show and were prone to snap. It will depend how far back others complained of the straps not holding them in and how long the owner had known about this problem and did nothing to rectify it to ensure the safety of everyone.

I think at least they will be charged with criminal negligence but then that doesn't seem to fit if they were fully aware of the problem and did absolutely nothing about it. That is more like a wonton disregard for human life to me. They weren't negligent, imo, meaning they just overlooked the problem but if they knew about it all along they were complicit knowing it was a serious safety hazard and did nothing to correct it.

I do believe they will also be civilly sued as well and not only by the family but by those who were there and are going to be traumatized for life by seeing what happened to this little boy. That is something so horrific that can scar people for life, mentally, who cant ever get the image out of their head.

IMO
 
I am just holding my breathe to see exactly what happens with the ownership of Schlitterbahn.

It is just heartbreaking when I read his brother was riding the first one and was waiting for him at the bottom, and he had to witness the whole incident. Just tears me up, the families are certainly in my prayers.

I wonder if others will come forward with their problems with this ride. Personally, I hope it shuts down for good, getting velcro wet is a disaster waiting to happen if you ask me.

jmo :moo:
 
According to an attorney who may represent the family moving forward, the two sisters, who are unrelated to Caleb Schwab, were seated behind the 10-year-old on the Verrückt raft.

A relative of the sisters said both women are mothers, and one of them has a boy the same age as Schwab.

"They said it all happened so fast," the relative explained. "They said they didn't know how it happened."

The relative stated that the two women were on a family trip at the time of the accident, and had attended a wedding in Lawrence the day before.

The attorney said the family planned to meet with him on Thursday to go over their case and figure out a plan moving forward.
http://www.kshb.com/news/state/kans...hlitterbahn-water-park-shed-light-on-accident
 

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