KS - Patricia Kimmi, 58, Horton, 6 Nov 2009 - #1

[Mima]

There would be 3 possible reasons the perp would take her.

1. No body, no murder.

2. "If" she had life insurance, the beneficiaries wouldn't be able to collect. I don't know if she had life insurance or not, but if she did, I'm assuming the kids would get the money. If he was not happy with the kids, he wouldn't want them to collect the life insurance.

3. Maybe your father hired for her to be kidnapped so he could take out his hate/anger on her himself?

Just some thoughts on why he would have her taken. I can't come up with any more.

Sorry these sound so crude and cruel, but the whole thing has been crude/cruel without my thoughts.

 

[Fairy1]

IIRC, the window between when Patricia was last seen and when she went missing was fairly short anyway. How much time are we actually looking at here? I'm thinking that whoever took her was following her. If she had come from town, might there be surveillance video of cars/people in the area when she was there? Someone was right on her tail, IMO.

 

[Whiskey Horse]

You hit the nail on the head w/ the term "narcissistic". That's what my Mom has called "dad" for the last couple of years.

The other woman is maybe 8 or 10 yrs younger, not for sure. They are not married. I do know that he has to be involved for this to happen, but until we know more, I think it was indirectly at this point.

I'm sure that they both are being looked into by LE - they're definitely not cleared.

I am so glad you said that LE is still looking at your Dad and his girlfriend. I almost swallowed my tongue when they said he had been cleared. No matter what has gone on, it's too early to clear anybody, I just couldn't believe that they could be that incompetent.

Thinking and praying for you and yours every day, Rita. I carry you all with me everywhere I go.

Pam

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

Is it possible that your dad had obtained a duplicate house key? Perhaps from a worker who was working on your mom's house or someone else?
Did anyone have a house key other than your mom?

He wouldn't know any of the workers personally so I doubt they would have given him a key. I do recall an instance where my Mom thought a key was missing from a lockbox that was in place while the house was still being worked on, but I don't know if she was SURE that a key was missing.

 

[Daisy_May]

He wouldn't know any of the workers personally so I doubt they would have given him a key. I do recall an instance where my Mom thought a key was missing from a lockbox that was in place while the house was still being worked on, but I don't know if she was SURE that a key was missing.

Well, you never know when one of those little things might be something that makes a difference in a case. I'm sure everyone is racking their brains trying to remember every little detail of anything that might make a difference.

I understand why you haven't went to a psychic, but just so you know... I've wished more than once I was one so I could glimpse whatever she saw when she opened her door so you all could find her and who-ever is responsible.

I'm on here several times a day-- keeping up -- and you are all still in my thoughts all the time. I just know this frustrates me (and I've never met your mom). Any family w/ someone missing must just go through hell. I hope you are all able to remain close and support each other through this. I hope the grand-kids are doing all right too. (It is a scary thing for us adults... how do kids come to grips w/ it?) God bless-- jan

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

There would be 3 possible reasons the perp would take her.

1. No body, no murder.

2. "If" she had life insurance, the beneficiaries wouldn't be able to collect. I don't know if she had life insurance or not, but if she did, I'm assuming the kids would get the money. If he was not happy with the kids, he wouldn't want them to collect the life insurance.

3. Maybe your father hired for her to be kidnapped so he could take out his hate/anger on her himself?

Just some thoughts on why he would have her taken. I can't come up with any more.

Sorry these sound so crude and cruel, but the whole thing has been crude/cruel without my thoughts.

No crude or cruel, just the horrible facts of this case. I'm sure that whatever Mom has, that we are the beneficiaries but I don't know that...we're operating on that she is still alive and we'll cross those bridges IF we need to. I say that only for the benefit of family members who may be reading here and speculating about motive.

And I'll address something that I got in a pm that ties into this...I am not offended in the least if law enforcement expects us to give dna or take polygraphs or ANYTHING ANYTHING ANYTHING that will help this case along. Innocent people have nothing to fear. I have already given dna and all four of us kids have been interviewed more than once. I'll say it again: INNOCENT PEOPLE HAVE NOTHNG TO FEAR. LE is trying to eliminate all the false leads they have and the more time they spend on those, the less time there is that they could be following up on good leads. They have to track down every lead, cross every T and dot every I, so that at prosecution time, their case is impeccable. A solid case may be the only light at the end of this horrendous tunnel.

If my Mom were standing beside me right now, I can hear it plain as day - she'd say, "Rita let it go, they're not worth it." I heard it enough during the divorce. I regret to say that I lack some of my precious Mom's grace and dignity, however, so while my blood is boiling, I'm going to say what I want to say.

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

I never knew until this happened what went into the search for a missing person. First, you don't want to believe that anything is really wrong but as the first 24 hours go by, you realize that this could be bad. In the next 24 hours, you find what will be termed as "the second crime scene" and find yourself on your hands and knees sifting thru dirt, rocks, leaves, and trash to find anything, any little item that will lead you closer to finding your Mom. You see things that you don't want to see. You hold rocks and leaves in your hands that are splattered with your Mom's blood and try to comprehend how and why someone would want to hurt her. It is with utter disbelief that you realize someone planned this crime AND targeted HER. Then in the third 24 hours, someone finds her dentures. You wonder if they fell out in the struggle? Was she running so hard they fell out? Did someone hit her in the face and knock them out? How hurt was she? Did they do something worse to her? WHY DID THEY TAKE HER? WHAT ARE THEY DOING TO HER NOW? WHAT WILL THEY KEEP DOING TO HER FOR THE NEXT 25 FREAKING DAYS?????????????????????? HOW DO WE LIVE WITH SEEING THAT SCENE AND KNOWING WHAT WAS DONE TO HER AND NOT KNOWING WHAT ELSE WAS DONE TO HER AND IS SHE GONE FOREVER???????????

It's torture. 24/7. From the time you wake up 'til the time you go to bed, and all the times in between. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. So you keep searching, and all the while, along over 2500 square miles of roads, with the help of over 1,000 caring souls, you tie a ribbon in each area you search...on bridges, ditches, ravines, along rivers and any area where someone might have put her. Because after 25 nights, if she's been put somewhere along a roadway, then we know she's no longer alive. THAT IS THE HORRIBLE REALITY - THAT WE ARE SEARCHING FOR HER BODY AND TYING RIBBONS SO THAT OTHER PEOPLE LOOKING FOR HER KNOW THAT AREA HAS ALREADY BEEN SEARCHED.

So excuse me if you feel you've been singled out because the road along your property was searched and ribbons were tied along it. After searching five entire counties and thousands of miles, did you really think we WOULDN'T search by your property? Not a freakin' chance. You're lucky it wasn't the FIRST place we searched.

Obviously you're a coward because every time you could have confronted me, you chose a different route. You took it out on my Mom during the divorce, who you were already hurting 100 different ways in the first place, but you had to rub it in on top of that. And now you run crying to someone else...because, by the way, it was MY family - children included, who did the first part of that particular search. My little boys wear their superhero costumes when we search for Ninny because they're "going to save her"...oh man, if only it were that easy.

My name and number are in the book, always have been. If you truly have a problem, you just give me a call. If you rethink everything and feel like you ought to be content that you still have all the family members you love around you as some of us DON'T, then give thanks to God and SHUT UP.

I seriously think some people don't have a heart or soul.

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

I am so glad you said that LE is still looking at your Dad and his girlfriend. I almost swallowed my tongue when they said he had been cleared. No matter what has gone on, it's too early to clear anybody, I just couldn't believe that they could be that incompetent.

Thinking and praying for you and yours every day, Rita. I carry you all with me everywhere I go.

Pam

Did someone say that people had been cleared?? Today LE said again, NO ONE has been cleared. Thank you Pam. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

Well, you never know when one of those little things might be something that makes a difference in a case. I'm sure everyone is racking their brains trying to remember every little detail of anything that might make a difference.

I understand why you haven't went to a psychic, but just so you know... I've wished more than once I was one so I could glimpse whatever she saw when she opened her door so you all could find her and who-ever is responsible.

I'm on here several times a day-- keeping up -- and you are all still in my thoughts all the time. I just know this frustrates me (and I've never met your mom). Any family w/ someone missing must just go through hell. I hope you are all able to remain close and support each other through this. I hope the grand-kids are doing all right too. (It is a scary thing for us adults... how do kids come to grips w/ it?) God bless-- jan

Thank you so much. It is the hardest thing to talk with the kids about. But this has gone on too long to not have regular discussion w/ them. For the first week, we tried to shield them from some things but...

Believe me, I have stood in her doorway countless times and begged God to see just 5 seconds of what happened there, w/ no answers. We ARE all very close, I don't know what we'd do if we weren't. Thank you so much for thinking of us.

 

[KivaSupporter]

He wouldn't know any of the workers personally so I doubt they would have given him a key. I do recall an instance where my Mom thought a key was missing from a lockbox that was in place while the house was still being worked on, but I don't know if she was SURE that a key was missing.

I think this is a possibility. He could have taken that key just for a short time, in order to have another one made, and returned it later. Your mom might have thought she had been mistaken when she had not seen it in the lockbox.
In that case, she would not have had to open the door on the day she disappeared. He could have entered the house using a key.

 

[KivaSupporter]

I was wondering about something else which will probably sound crazy to you.

If your dad is still drinking outside home, would he be drinking mostly in one bar? If so, what do you think about the idea of talking to the bartender(s) and asking them to listen to what he is saying, or maybe even spending more time talking to him? In my opinion, when people are drunk, they say things they would not normally say.

Or, as an alternative, find someone who would be willing to go to that place several times as a customer and befriend your dad?

I really think that might be a way to find out what he knows or if he suspects a certain person or persons were involved in your mom's disappearance (or even incriminate himself).

I am thinking about you and praying for you and your family.

 

[somewhereinkansas]

Sorry if it has been answered, but was the front door closed?

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

Sorry if it has been answered, but was the front door closed?

The screen door was closed but unlocked. The heavy door was wide open.

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

I was wondering about something else which will probably sound crazy to you.

If your dad is still drinking outside home, would he be drinking mostly in one bar? If so, what do you think about the idea of talking to the bartender(s) and asking them to listen to what he is saying, or maybe even spending more time talking to him? In my opinion, when people are drunk, they say things they would not normally say.

Or, as an alternative, find someone who would be willing to go to that place several times as a customer and befriend your dad?

I really think that might be a way to find out what he knows or if he suspects a certain person or persons were involved in your mom's disappearance (or even incriminate himself).

I am thinking about you and praying for you and your family.

Well, I've already heard some of the things he'd said in bars. But where...I know a few of the local ones, but beyond that, I really don't know where he spends his time. It's worth a shot though to check some of them out.

 

[LaLaw2000]

I had no idea that there were rocks and leaves spattered with Pat's blood. I do not remember reading about that at all, or that LE had conclusively determined that it was, in fact, Pat's blood.

In my previous posts, when I referred to the blood spatters, I thought all along the blood spatters were found on the front porch.

At this point, I think I will go back to lurking and just reading. Nothing is making sense, IMO. LE needs to come out with a public statement or an update.

Still prayers for Pat and her family.

 

[Mima]

No crude or cruel, just the horrible facts of this case. I'm sure that whatever Mom has, that we are the beneficiaries but I don't know that...we're operating on that she is still alive and we'll cross those bridges IF we need to. I say that only for the benefit of family members who may be reading here and speculating about motive.

And I'll address something that I got in a pm that ties into this...I am not offended in the least if law enforcement expects us to give dna or take polygraphs or ANYTHING ANYTHING ANYTHING that will help this case along. Innocent people have nothing to fear. I have already given dna and all four of us kids have been interviewed more than once. I'll say it again: INNOCENT PEOPLE HAVE NOTHNG TO FEAR. LE is trying to eliminate all the false leads they have and the more time they spend on those, the less time there is that they could be following up on good leads. They have to track down every lead, cross every T and dot every I, so that at prosecution time, their case is impeccable. A solid case may be the only light at the end of this horrendous tunnel.

If my Mom were standing beside me right now, I can hear it plain as day - she'd say, "Rita let it go, they're not worth it." I heard it enough during the divorce. I regret to say that I lack some of my precious Mom's grace and dignity, however, so while my blood is boiling, I'm going to say what I want to say.

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

I never knew until this happened what went into the search for a missing person. First, you don't want to believe that anything is really wrong but as the first 24 hours go by, you realize that this could be bad. In the next 24 hours, you find what will be termed as "the second crime scene" and find yourself on your hands and knees sifting thru dirt, rocks, leaves, and trash to find anything, any little item that will lead you closer to finding your Mom. You see things that you don't want to see. You hold rocks and leaves in your hands that are splattered with your Mom's blood and try to comprehend how and why someone would want to hurt her. It is with utter disbelief that you realize someone planned this crime AND targeted HER. Then in the third 24 hours, someone finds her dentures. You wonder if they fell out in the struggle? Was she running so hard they fell out? Did someone hit her in the face and knock them out? How hurt was she? Did they do something worse to her? WHY DID THEY TAKE HER? WHAT ARE THEY DOING TO HER NOW? WHAT WILL THEY KEEP DOING TO HER FOR THE NEXT 25 FREAKING DAYS?????????????????????? HOW DO WE LIVE WITH SEEING THAT SCENE AND KNOWING WHAT WAS DONE TO HER AND NOT KNOWING WHAT ELSE WAS DONE TO HER AND IS SHE GONE FOREVER???????????

It's torture. 24/7. From the time you wake up 'til the time you go to bed, and all the times in between. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. So you keep searching, and all the while, along over 2500 square miles of roads, with the help of over 1,000 caring souls, you tie a ribbon in each area you search...on bridges, ditches, ravines, along rivers and any area where someone might have put her. Because after 25 nights, if she's been put somewhere along a roadway, then we know she's no longer alive. THAT IS THE HORRIBLE REALITY - THAT WE ARE SEARCHING FOR HER BODY AND TYING RIBBONS SO THAT OTHER PEOPLE LOOKING FOR HER KNOW THAT AREA HAS ALREADY BEEN SEARCHED.

So excuse me if you feel you've been singled out because the road along your property was searched and ribbons were tied along it. After searching five entire counties and thousands of miles, did you really think we WOULDN'T search by your property? Not a freakin' chance. You're lucky it wasn't the FIRST place we searched.

Obviously you're a coward because every time you could have confronted me, you chose a different route. You took it out on my Mom during the divorce, who you were already hurting 100 different ways in the first place, but you had to rub it in on top of that. And now you run crying to someone else...because, by the way, it was MY family - children included, who did the first part of that particular search. My little boys wear their superhero costumes when we search for Ninny because they're "going to save her"...oh man, if only it were that easy.

My name and number are in the book, always have been. If you truly have a problem, you just give me a call. If you rethink everything and feel like you ought to be content that you still have all the family members you love around you as some of us DON'T, then give thanks to God and SHUT UP.

I seriously think some people don't have a heart or soul.

Rita, I am sooooo sorry. Your post just broke my heart. Thank you for explaining just a bit of what you are going through as hard as it probably was for you.

Most people haven't gone throught anything like this, so we can't imagine.

I'm praying for your family.

Mima

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

I had no idea that there were rocks and leaves spattered with Pat's blood. I do not remember reading about that at all, or that LE had conclusively determined that it was, in fact, Pat's blood.

In my previous posts, when I referred to the blood spatters, I thought all along the blood spatters were found on the front porch.

At this point, I think I will go back to lurking and just reading. Nothing is making sense, IMO. LE needs to come out with a public statement or an update.

Still prayers for Pat and her family.

I am assuming it is her blood, since she is the victim and still missing at this point. I don't know what the SOP is for LE in a case like this. This is what they have stated: "Based on what we've found, she's going to have some injuries, to say the least."

There were a few droplets of blood a few feet from the end of the sidewalk. What we thought were droplets of blood at the end of the sidewalk did not show to be blood. There were droplets of blood found also at the second scene.

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

Rita, I am sooooo sorry. Your post just broke my heart. Thank you for explaining just a bit of what you are going through as hard as it probably was for you.

Most people haven't gone throught anything like this, so we can't imagine.

I'm praying for your family.

Mima

Well...it's just been that kind of a day. I drove out to my Mom's and turned the radio up real loud and screamed until I was hoarse. Then I felt like an idiot and drove back home.

If we had to lose her, I wish we could have just said one last goodbye. I love you. I'll miss you forever.

Oh, how I wish we could have been there for her. I hate it that she was all alone. I hate it.

 

[Whiskey Horse]

Did someone say that people had been cleared?? Today LE said again, NO ONE has been cleared. Thank you Pam. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Yeah, I think I read that on the AMW post. I don't even know how to get back to it, but I'll try and let you know if what I read was for real or just a product of my poor reading skills.

 

[Fairy1]

No crude or cruel, just the horrible facts of this case. I'm sure that whatever Mom has, that we are the beneficiaries but I don't know that...we're operating on that she is still alive and we'll cross those bridges IF we need to. I say that only for the benefit of family members who may be reading here and speculating about motive.

And I'll address something that I got in a pm that ties into this...I am not offended in the least if law enforcement expects us to give dna or take polygraphs or ANYTHING ANYTHING ANYTHING that will help this case along. Innocent people have nothing to fear. I have already given dna and all four of us kids have been interviewed more than once. I'll say it again: INNOCENT PEOPLE HAVE NOTHNG TO FEAR. LE is trying to eliminate all the false leads they have and the more time they spend on those, the less time there is that they could be following up on good leads. They have to track down every lead, cross every T and dot every I, so that at prosecution time, their case is impeccable. A solid case may be the only light at the end of this horrendous tunnel.

If my Mom were standing beside me right now, I can hear it plain as day - she'd say, "Rita let it go, they're not worth it." I heard it enough during the divorce. I regret to say that I lack some of my precious Mom's grace and dignity, however, so while my blood is boiling, I'm going to say what I want to say.

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

I never knew until this happened what went into the search for a missing person. First, you don't want to believe that anything is really wrong but as the first 24 hours go by, you realize that this could be bad. In the next 24 hours, you find what will be termed as "the second crime scene" and find yourself on your hands and knees sifting thru dirt, rocks, leaves, and trash to find anything, any little item that will lead you closer to finding your Mom. You see things that you don't want to see. You hold rocks and leaves in your hands that are splattered with your Mom's blood and try to comprehend how and why someone would want to hurt her. It is with utter disbelief that you realize someone planned this crime AND targeted HER. Then in the third 24 hours, someone finds her dentures. You wonder if they fell out in the struggle? Was she running so hard they fell out? Did someone hit her in the face and knock them out? How hurt was she? Did they do something worse to her? WHY DID THEY TAKE HER? WHAT ARE THEY DOING TO HER NOW? WHAT WILL THEY KEEP DOING TO HER FOR THE NEXT 25 FREAKING DAYS?????????????????????? HOW DO WE LIVE WITH SEEING THAT SCENE AND KNOWING WHAT WAS DONE TO HER AND NOT KNOWING WHAT ELSE WAS DONE TO HER AND IS SHE GONE FOREVER???????????

It's torture. 24/7. From the time you wake up 'til the time you go to bed, and all the times in between. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. So you keep searching, and all the while, along over 2500 square miles of roads, with the help of over 1,000 caring souls, you tie a ribbon in each area you search...on bridges, ditches, ravines, along rivers and any area where someone might have put her. Because after 25 nights, if she's been put somewhere along a roadway, then we know she's no longer alive. THAT IS THE HORRIBLE REALITY - THAT WE ARE SEARCHING FOR HER BODY AND TYING RIBBONS SO THAT OTHER PEOPLE LOOKING FOR HER KNOW THAT AREA HAS ALREADY BEEN SEARCHED.

So excuse me if you feel you've been singled out because the road along your property was searched and ribbons were tied along it. After searching five entire counties and thousands of miles, did you really think we WOULDN'T search by your property? Not a freakin' chance. You're lucky it wasn't the FIRST place we searched.

Obviously you're a coward because every time you could have confronted me, you chose a different route. You took it out on my Mom during the divorce, who you were already hurting 100 different ways in the first place, but you had to rub it in on top of that. And now you run crying to someone else...because, by the way, it was MY family - children included, who did the first part of that particular search. My little boys wear their superhero costumes when we search for Ninny because they're "going to save her"...oh man, if only it were that easy.

My name and number are in the book, always have been. If you truly have a problem, you just give me a call. If you rethink everything and feel like you ought to be content that you still have all the family members you love around you as some of us DON'T, then give thanks to God and SHUT UP.

I seriously think some people don't have a heart or soul.

Oh Rita - I'm in tears for the first time ever on WS. You have more grace and dignity than most people I've ever known and I think your Mom would be so proud of you and your family. It's so ridiculously senseless and my heart goes out to you all.

She will be found and whoever took her will be brought to justice. Please don't give up hope. :blowkiss:

 

[harleysmom]

Rita, Tony, Gene, David, and families;
I am so thankful that your mother has given you the gift of loving God. I don't know how you would be able to go through all of this without Jesus. I don't know the why, why, why's of all of this, but I know that you all know the WHO, WHO, WHO, of this that is in charge and that is your mama's best friend, Jesus. He has never left her side, never. Don't lose hope, God will make a way where there seems to be no way. He works in ways we cannot see, He will make a way......He will make a way. I believe, (speaking as a mama, and a mamaw) that she would want you to hold onto your faith, and to eachother, and to try to ....well...as you said earlier...let it go. That doesn't mean you stop doing all the things you have been...it just means........put it totally in Gods Hands. And I am going to say something else, that I hope doesn't upset you all...because I love you as my brothers and sisters in Christ,
but please think it through before making a decision on how you feel. I am going to pray for your "dad", it sounds like he did not do a very good job at being "dad", but your mama must have seen something in him worth loving, something worth praying for after all the years they were together. I pray he is not responsible, as this would be very hard to take, but I also believe that your mama taught you that "the one who needs loved the most, often deserves it the least". If nothing else, pray to be released from the way he has made you feel. Don't let the anger and hurt from the past keep you captive in your own spirit, who is that hurting?...you. Love covers a multitude of sins. I'm so very sorry that he did you all wrong, and I bet if he was really honest with himself, he is so sorry that he can't even stand himself, therefore escaping into alcohol and hatefulness. Listen to the whispers in the air from your mama, she would want you to love him anyway. Try to forgive, that doesn't mean forget....it just means it releases you from all the hurt he inflicted. When you mama gets home, we will all rejoice with you, oh what a joyous day it will be :angel: