KY KY - Katie Gray, 10 months, West Paducah, 29 Nov 2004

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How very sad... I refuse to make any accusations at this time...
It is very normal for parents to take their children out for a drive to get them to sleep. I used to do it with my oldest daughter all the time.. That was one of the only ways Icould get her to sleep for awhile..
I have NO IDEA what the creek area is like and will not speculate.

I cant imagine losing hold of the car seat though... If it were me, I would hang on to it with dear life and we would go down together... But again, I was not there and have not been in that situation (thank God) and I don't know if it was physically possible to hang on to it or not...

Right now, all I can think about is this poor little girl.. I hope they find her soon, so she can be put to rest properly... I hate to think of the creek being her eternal resting place.
 
" I KILLED MY BABY... ", REPORTS WITNESS
DAY 7 OF THE SEARCH
Anna Prendergast
Monday, December 06, 2004
In an exclusive interview with NewsChannel 6, a couple that knew Johnny and Sandy Gray say the couple showed up at their doorstep the night their daughter, Katie, was lost in a rain-swollen Massac Creek acting suspiciously.

The couple, who only agreed to an interview if their identities could be protected, say they told their story to authorities. --->>

a couple that lives near Massac Creek, and claims to be friends of the Grays, says the story the public is hearing is not the entire story, "There was too much of a time lapse from when they got to our house and the time the baby supposedly dissapeared".

In his report to police and in interviews with NewsChannel 6, Johnny Gray said his Blazer (actually a vehicle he was working on for a former employer) in Massac Creek near Mayfield-Metropolis Road around 10pm November 29th.--->>

Gray says he then lost his footing and let go of the car seat.

He says he then walked down this road for about a 1/2 mile before stopping at a friend's house for help.

The couple that has come forward says they were those friends, but that Gray and his wife claimed their car had broken down and they needed a ride home.

"I asked them where Katie is they said she's at the babysitters".

Later, the Gray's returned to the house with a different story, said one witness, "the second time they came back they said we got to tell you the truth. Katie is down there in the creek".

That was about 1AM. The 911 call came into police at 1:08AM.

That's when, according to our source, Sandy Gray, sobbing, said,

"She said I killed my baby....I killed my baby...I know i killed my baby!"--->>
http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200412/06/010A_local_news.html

I had heard this story already but this is the first time I've seen it reported.

Another detail I have heard, but isn't reported here, is that the mother said she had the car seat first, dropped it, then the dad was able to recover it, then dad also dropped it.

All this could still be a tragic accident. It could also be that the parents were afraid they'd be suspected of harming their child on purpose and were just trying to avoid that. I don't want to think the worse of this couple, and I sure hope it turns out to be accidental.

As of this afternoon, Katie still hasn't been found.
 
The 'witnesses' being unnamed is also suspect.. this could be true, this could be nonsense. I guess there is nothing to do but wait.

Katy's Mom still in the hospital?
 
No local news about the mom being released as yet. It could happen and not be reported on, though.

I think it's very possible the mother would still feel supreme guilt over accidently losing her grip on the car seat, if that's what happened. If so, that could account for her statement to the witnesses.

The witnesses are real, and live where they say they live. Local LE didn't want them to talk to media and when media persuaded them to talk they wanted to remain anonymous. I don't think that will pacify Sheriff Augustus but there's no gag order in place so there's really nothing he can do about it.

I haven't heard or read when Katie was last seen by anyone other than her parents, and don't know if when will impact on the case or not, but I can't help but wonder.
 
You have to wonder how the media persuaded the witnesses to speak if local police told them not to. $$$

As soon as I heard the Father took the Polygraph, I immediately wondered about the Mom, perhaps she has done something and her husband is covering for her with the flood story?

Poor little baby, they need to find her ASAP. Thanks for the updates, this is a tragic loss however it happened.
 
Could just be a tragic accident and a couple of not too bright parents who were terrified that they would be suspect.

Also, if they had killed the baby and only took her there to dump her body wouldn't the cadaver dogs have hit on the vehicle?

Or if she was alive during the ride but they tossed her in the creek to kill her on purpose...then why would the mom be crying about it out loud in front of people like she did?

Strange case. I hope they didn't murder the baby. I do agree something sounds odd about the whole thing.

Another thing that strikes me as odd is the fact that they can't find this child especially since the child is strapped into a car seat. How can a child and a car seat dissapear like that?
 
Casshew there's no $$ from local media for granting interviews, anonymous or not. You might be thinking of tabloids which offer money. The witnesses told their story to others at the search scene, which is how the local media found out about them.

MaybeSo, the baby is a she--Katie Gray, 10 months old.

I don't know for certain that cadaver dogs showed more than just "interest". I haven't read or heard of any definite alerts given by the dogs. I think the rushing water could remove the cadaver scent from the vehicle. It had been engulfed in the creek for hours when the tow truck pulled it out.

I'd like to know if either or both cadaver dogs actually alerted on the blanket that had been removed from the creek's bank by the time dogs arrived but I haven't been able to find that out yet.
 
Why do you think they would talk to the press when told not to? maybe they were just being hounded? Information such as they have leaked is dangerous, anyone could read it the wrong way inferring the parents are involved and try some vigilante justice. It was really not the brightest thing to do... talking to the press.
 
LovelyPigeon said:
Casshew there's no $$ from local media for granting interviews, anonymous or not. You might be thinking of tabloids which offer money. The witnesses told their story to others at the search scene, which is how the local media found out about them.

MaybeSo, the baby is a she--Katie Gray, 10 months old.

I don't know for certain that cadaver dogs showed more than just "interest". I haven't read or heard of any definite alerts given by the dogs. I think the rushing water could remove the cadaver scent from the vehicle. It had been engulfed in the creek for hours when the tow truck pulled it out.

I'd like to know if either or both cadaver dogs actually alerted on the blanket that had been removed from the creek's bank by the time dogs arrived but I haven't been able to find that out yet.
Click to expand...

Yep, I knew it was a girl but for some reason used "him" throughout my entire post....LOL....I must have been mentally picturing my son in the baby seat while I was trying to think about whether I would have taken the car seat out of the vehicle with a child in it or if I would have taken the child out in my arms. I think I would have gotten by baby out and left the car seat behind in the vehicle.
 
MS, others have also questioned to me about taking the time to unstrap the car seat. I thought maybe the baby was strapped in the seat but the seat wasn't strapped in the car with a seat belt.

Casshew, I don't know the motivation of the witnesses to speak to local tv. Maybe they felt pressured, or maybe they are angry if they think the parents guilty of a crime.
 
I'll have to summarize what the Paducah Sun article contains today because I can't find the same info online anywhere to link to.

Two reporters from the Sun interviewed Katie's parents Sandy and Johnnie Gray, and also the witnesses/friends, Peggy and Harold Wallace, whose comments were on Channel 6 news.

This is the order of events for that night, given by JGray and HWallace:

The Grays became stuck in the creek after 10pm, lost Katie about 10:30pm, looked for her a while, then walked to the Wallace home 1/2 mile away arriving about 11:00. The Grays told the Wallaces that Katie was at a babysitter, that they had been at a party but left the party without a ride home after getting into an argument. The Grays asked Wallace to take them home, and he did, stopping on the way to buy cigarettes for the Grays at a gas station. The receipt for the cigarettes has the time as 11:37pm.

After the Grays got home, they decided they had to tell the truth so they went back to the Wallace home and JGray told them "Katie's down there in the creek." PWallace then jumped up and asked if LE had been called. LE had not been called. A 911 call was made from the Wallace house about 1am.

It was when the Grays returned to the Wallace house that KGray became hysterical and made the comments about killing her daughter. KGray told the Sun reporters that she was hysterical, and they quote her as explaining: "we didn't have our baby when we left the creek. If I ever made any comment that I killed my baby, it's because we had just lost her...It's because I knew she was gone and because I was hysterical...I wanted to run after it happened. But I didn't kill my baby; she was just gone. It was so dark I couldn't see anything."
 
Also, JGray said he would not attempt to take any more polygraphs--he tried 4 times on Friday to take one--because he is getting a lawyer. LE only says that a polygraph was inconclusive because Gray was so upset at the time.

LE says that SGray may also be asked to take a polygraph. She has not talked to LE since Nov 30, shortly after the incident. LE was not able to talk to her while she was hospitalized.

Sheriff Augustus was quoted as saying that even if the Grays' account is true, they may still be charged with negligence.

The search for Katie is continuing.
 
Okay

I am trying to put myself in their place... say I was out and got caught in the rain swollen river and my baby was washed away... I think I would be hysterical and try to get help or search myself... you know, run to the closest house and call the police, fire dept.. have everyone come help search.

The part about them lying that Katie was at the babysitter just throws such a wrench in everything. It means they were concious of appearances and conspired between the two of them to tell their friends this untruth.. valuble time was wasted in the search for little katie.. hours lost on that lie.

Then the stopping for cigarettes thing ~ seriously where are their priorities at this point?

I would like to understand a little more about these people and where they are from.. LP, do you know what they do for a living? are they educated? other family members?

The Mom spoke to the newspaper yet she has not spoken to the Police since Nov 30th.. none of this is making any sense to me. :snooty:
 
Casshew said:
The Mom spoke to the newspaper yet she has not spoken to the Police since Nov 30th.. none of this is making any sense to me. :snooty:
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to say that's it's making sense to me.

The "stopping" for cigarettes just bring the words "cold blooded" to mind.
 
I don't know - it is just not ringing true to me. I mean would you ever leave that creek willingly knowing your child was in it? And walk half a mile to your friend's house? I can see one of the parents staying to search and the other one going to the friend's house for help, but that is not what happened.

imo
 
As far as I know, Casshew, both parents are from around here. His appearance on television earlier gave the impression of someone who is uneducated and not well-spoken. Friends of the families whose photos I've seen in the paper look more sophisticated than Gray.

He has worked as a mechanic. I don't remember reading whether the mother is employed.

Lying about where Katie was after they'd lost her in the waters of the creek, then delaying notifying LE to conduct a search sure does put a wrench into things. It makes it harder, though not impossible, to believe that the loss of Katie was accidental.
 
I'm aghast that the parents weren't hysterical 30 minutes after they'd lost Katie into the creek, when they first arrived at the Wallace house. How to be able to calmly pretend Katie was at a sitter's and they'd just left a party?

Maybe shock and grief could cause that reaction...I just don't know.
 
Casshew said:
Okay
The part about them lying that Katie was at the babysitter just throws such a wrench in everything. It means they were concious of appearances and conspired between the two of them to tell their friends this untruth.. valuble time was wasted in the search for little katie.. hours lost on that lie.

Then the stopping for cigarettes thing ~ seriously where are their priorities at this point? :
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly !!
 
Obviously, the story they first told would never be confirmable. They weren't at a party and Katie wasn't at a sitter's. The most superficial investigation would quickly reveal that as a lie.

I wonder if some elements of the truth are in there. Maybe they had been "partying" earlier, maybe they fought about something either before or after the car stalled in the creek, maybe they even fought over carrying Katie's car seat which caused them both to lose their grip on it. Would drugs dull their initial reaction to the tragedy?
 
LovelyPigeon said:
I'm aghast that the parents weren't hysterical 30 minutes after they'd lost Katie into the creek, when they first arrived at the Wallace house. How to be able to calmly pretend Katie was at a sitter's and they'd just left a party?

Maybe shock and grief could cause that reaction...I just don't know.
Click to expand...

Also, how could they lie and say they were at a party. Shouldn't they have been soaking wet, covered in mud, and disheveled looking from wading out of and/or searching the creek for their child?
 
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