KY - Third Graders Handcuffed in School, Covington, Federal Lawsuit Filed Aug 2015

[Elley Mae]

Thank goodness my daughters classes were not effected like this. jmo idk

 

[Margo/Mom]

This may be partly a problem of schools being unable to touch children anymore. At our schools, teachers literally can't touch a child. How crazy is that? Sometimes you HAVE to touch them - to hold them in place while you talk to them, to lead them down the hall by the hand so they don't dart off, to hug them if they're hurt.

Schools sometimes are without any other recourse except to call LE to help. In the Dallas area, middle and high schools decided to use LE to enforce no fighting/no disruption of class/truancy issues because there was no other way to get the kid's attention and the parent's attention. Parent's didn't care what the kids were doing, and having a saturday detention here and there wasn't helping. So making them show up in court and getting a juvenile record and paying large fines was the only way to get kids to behave the way they need to to keep the school system functioning.

I don't know what the answer is, but it does seem that authorities in schools have no real way to change behavior of children who are serious behavior problems.

BBM

One issue is labeling children as BEING problems, rather than HAVING problems.

Another is our willingness to believe every meme about schools that come down the pike--such as "teachers aren't allowed to touch children anymore."

And finally, there is the subtext that children need to be corporally punished in order to learn correct behavior. IOW, if only teachers were allowed to give out swats then these kinds of things wouldn't happen.

Here are a few facts about this story:

"A federal lawsuit says the boy - 3 feet 6 inches tall and 52 pounds - was removed from class last August because he was not following his teacher's directions. The boy then tried to leave the principal's office but was physically restrained by school administrators until Sumner arrived to escort the boy to the bathroom.

On the way back from the bathroom, the boy tried to hit Sumner with his elbow, according to a report from the Kenton County Sheriff's office cited in the lawsuit. That's when Sumner put him in handcuffs." http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...4-handcuffed-disabled-kids-case-kentucky.html

Now, those are the bare facts, missing is any information about setting conditions or emotional involvement (such as, what was the teacher instructing the child to do and how--why the child was not following through, how long was he restrained before the cop arrived to take him to the bathroom and what sorts of routine expectations were in place for this police officer in an elementary school). What was the role of the administrator (beyond filming the incident)?

In my experience, adults in schools are not always the best at de-escalating angry situations. In particular when dealing with children who are defined as being (not having) behavioral issues. Ignoring a child's legitimate needs (which are frequently diagnosed and documented via an IEP process) can be a handy means by which to move a kid into somebody else's realm of responsibility--simply by allowing behavior (or sometimes encouraging behavior) to escalate.

BTW--another lawsuit against the same officer in the same school involves another child with special needs. She was placed in seclusion/isolation and the cop used to keep her imprisoned there.

 

[Margo/Mom]

Whether or not he should have been in the school (imo no way) has nothing to do with the way he treated this child. He didn't ask to be there so he takes it out on a child? I can't imagine any adult human being thinking this is an acceptable way to treat a child no matter the circumstances.

I agree cops have no business in schools, but I most certainly fault this officer for his disgusting (imo) actions.

No--I don't interpret this as a cop taking it out on a kid because he didn't want to be there. I see it as someone who is trained in restraining and arresting adults being inappropriately utilized in a school setting.

 

[bluesneakers]

No--I don't interpret this as a cop taking it out on a kid because he didn't want to be there. I see it as someone who is trained in restraining and arresting adults being inappropriately utilized in a school setting.

Whatever his excuse he makes me sick to my stomach.

That poor kid.

 

[LonghornSpeakEasy]

No--I don't interpret this as a cop taking it out on a kid because he didn't want to be there. I see it as someone who is trained in restraining and arresting adults being inappropriately utilized in a school setting.

:goodpost:

He was called in by administrators to do a job and he did what he knows. He's not trained in education law or how to deal with kids in this type of situation and the administrators allowing it implied approval. I feel the administrator was just passing the buck! It appears it worked as I don't believe the school wasn't named in the suit.

IMO

 

[Woodland]

BBM

One issue is labeling children as BEING problems, rather than HAVING problems.

Another is our willingness to believe every meme about schools that come down the pike--such as "teachers aren't allowed to touch children anymore."

And finally, there is the subtext that children need to be corporally punished in order to learn correct behavior. IOW, if only teachers were allowed to give out swats then these kinds of things wouldn't happen.

Here are a few facts about this story:

"A federal lawsuit says the boy - 3 feet 6 inches tall and 52 pounds - was removed from class last August because he was not following his teacher's directions. The boy then tried to leave the principal's office but was physically restrained by school administrators until Sumner arrived to escort the boy to the bathroom.

On the way back from the bathroom, the boy tried to hit Sumner with his elbow, according to a report from the Kenton County Sheriff's office cited in the lawsuit. That's when Sumner put him in handcuffs." http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...4-handcuffed-disabled-kids-case-kentucky.html

Now, those are the bare facts, missing is any information about setting conditions or emotional involvement (such as, what was the teacher instructing the child to do and how--why the child was not following through, how long was he restrained before the cop arrived to take him to the bathroom and what sorts of routine expectations were in place for this police officer in an elementary school). What was the role of the administrator (beyond filming the incident)?

In my experience, adults in schools are not always the best at de-escalating angry situations. In particular when dealing with children who are defined as being (not having) behavioral issues. Ignoring a child's legitimate needs (which are frequently diagnosed and documented via an IEP process) can be a handy means by which to move a kid into somebody else's realm of responsibility--simply by allowing behavior (or sometimes encouraging behavior) to escalate.

BTW--another lawsuit against the same officer in the same school involves another child with special needs. She was placed in seclusion/isolation and the cop used to keep her imprisoned there.

I appreciate your overall view of the school situation - and see much of it as you do.

But, people are outraged and someone needs to own what happened to these children. Allowing cops to restrain anyone under such conditions is a problem in itself. The same cop with 2 lawsuits? Getting a little smoky where this guy is concerned.

How does anyone know the child tried to hit this poor officer with his elbow? Why did he have to lock up another child? It's just not OK with many people that this is a solution.

The system as a whole does not have this situation down to a science - there or anywhere worldwide I suspect.

Cheers!

 

[Margo/Mom]

I appreciate your overall view of the school situation - and see much of it as you do.

But, people are outraged and someone needs to own what happened to these children. Allowing cops to restrain anyone under such conditions is a problem in itself. The same cop with 2 lawsuits? Getting a little smoky where this guy is concerned.

How does anyone know the child tried to hit this poor officer with his elbow? Why did he have to lock up another child? It's just not OK with many people that this is a solution.

The system as a whole does not have this situation down to a science - there or anywhere worldwide I suspect.

Cheers!

I would just add to it my own questions--why have we stationed cops-on-call in elementary schools to begin with; and why are we using police to escort kids to the bathroom?

The issue with the other kid gets even worse. The use of restraint/seclusion/isolation on children--particularly those with disabilities has been condemned outright by multiple experts supported by data. Children have been traumatized, physically injured and some have died.

And yet the practice continues. Laws prohibiting such practices are introduced, challenged, watered-down and finally either disappear or have all enforcement "teeth" removed. The reality is that some in this country hold strongly to certain beliefs about the role of physical punishment in "teaching," particularly when it comes down to other people's children. And many of those who fight to ensure the continued presence of such isolation chambers (variously called "time-out rooms" or "respite rooms")--for use with the populations least able to speak up for themselves--are educators and education administrators.

Like I said--the police didn't ask for the role of third-grade enforcer. The adult professionals did that. And I hold them responsible.

 

[Woodland]

Well, what I hear from you is, you do not like the situation one iota (how these kids were treated) but you are giving the cop a pass. Not just this particular cop though, his supervisors as well.

Adult professionals where kids are concerned should be held responsible? All but the cops? Cops see themselves as third grade enforcers? Imo, that perception should be fixed as well - cops treat adults with problems the same way. The problems that exist with these children now might disappear later in their life?

Many facets to overcome imo.

 

[cady]

I don't know, but if a parent or relative or sitter HANDCUFFED a child, wouldn't that rise to the level of a crime, not just a civil lawsuit? I don't know the solution to controlling the out-of-control afflicted children that our culture is exponentially producing....but then, I'm an old bat who really can't recall ANY classmates who were more than just rowdy kids. We did not need to be policed, and there was no corporal punishment, that I recall. If that had happened to me, I'd have been traumatized for life. JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

:goodpost:

He was called in by administrators to do a job and he did what he knows. He's not trained in education law or how to deal with kids in this type of situation and the administrators allowing it implied approval. I feel the administrator was just passing the buck! It appears it worked as I don't believe the school wasn't named in the suit.

IMO

It bothers me "what he knows" is how to abuse a child. IMO that's not a skill necessary in law enforcement.

I hold the school responsible for putting him in this position, but he's a grown man, an officer of the law, and there's absolutely no excuse for what he did to this child. NONE.

 

[Margo/Mom]

Well, what I hear from you is, you do not like the situation one iota (how these kids were treated) but you are giving the cop a pass. Not just this particular cop though, his supervisors as well.

Adult professionals where kids are concerned should be held responsible? All but the cops? Cops see themselves as third grade enforcers? Imo, that perception should be fixed as well - cops treat adults with problems the same way. The problems that exist with these children now might disappear later in their life?

Many facets to overcome imo.

It's not a matter of giving the cop a pass. It's a matter of objecting to the cop being made into a scapegoat for a situation that has been created by others far above his pay-grade (not to mention training). If you call on an auto mechanic to remove somebody's appendix I think it's a stretch to charge them with malpractice when the patient dies of complications. That's all.

 

[Woodland]

Chuckles - if a mechanic agrees to remove someones appendix, knowing they are not qualified to do so, then the consequences will be on the mechanic for agreeing to perform surgery they are not qualified to perform. It would come down to a choice the person made.

Unable to see cops as a scapegoat in this situation - they are agreeing to do the job. If they can't handle third graders, just say no.

Jmo.

 

[Margo/Mom]

Chuckles - if a mechanic agrees to remove someones appendix, knowing they are not qualified to do so, then the consequences will be on the mechanic for agreeing to perform surgery they are not qualified to perform. It would come down to a choice the person made.

Unable to see cops as a scapegoat in this situation - they are agreeing to do the job. If they can't handle third graders, just say no.

Jmo.

Cops are not independent agents. The end up in schools because of agreements made between local districts and local LE. And I have not known these to be initiated by LE.

 

[bluesneakers]

Cops are not independent agents. The end up in schools because of agreements made between local districts and local LE. And I have not known these to be initiated by LE.

What I saw on the video was initiated by LE.

 

[BlueShoe]

If I were in this school, I would run in and try to stop this cop. I'd probably be beaten and bruised and some on this thread would think I got my just deserts. I think this cop is torturing this kid. This is a young child and although apparently described as "special needs," I know plenty of children who would react this way. He tried to kick the cop? Call his parents to come get him. Explain to them that this behavior cannot continue. But put him in handcuffs and listen to him scream? Just no!

 

[cady]

If I were in this school, I would run in and try to stop this cop. I'd probably be beaten and bruised and some on this thread would think I got my just deserts. I think this cop is torturing this kid. This is a young child and although apparently described as "special needs," I know plenty of children who would react this way. He tried to kick the cop? Call his parents to come get him. Explain to them that this behavior cannot continue. But put him in handcuffs and listen to him scream? Just no!

NO LINK ALERT! I read earlier today that the kid elbowed him after he had taken the child to the bathroom. All 52 lbs of child, and 3 ft 6 inches. JMO eta: I thought handcuffs were used on people suspected of CRIMINAL behavior. JMO

 

[okmom23]

It's not a matter of giving the cop a pass. It's a matter of objecting to the cop being made into a scapegoat for a situation that has been created by others far above his pay-grade (not to mention training). If you call on an auto mechanic to remove somebody's appendix I think it's a stretch to charge them with malpractice when the patient dies of complications. That's all.

Couldn't have said it any better. For me, IMO, the school district should be named in this lawsuit. I question why the incident was recorded, again my opinion, but it looks to me as if the administration approved of the action and if they did not approve someone should have stepped in and intervened and not stand there and record the incident.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Woodland]

NO LINK ALERT! I read earlier today that the kid elbowed him after he had taken the child to the bathroom. All 52 lbs of child, and 3 ft 6 inches. JMO eta: I thought handcuffs were used on people suspected of CRIMINAL behavior. JMO

Not at all sure the elbowing incident even happened myself. Either way, another job for this bully is in order imo.

 

[Woodland]

Couldn't have said it any better. For me, IMO, the school district should be named in this lawsuit. I question why the incident was recorded, again my opinion, but it looks to me as if the administration approved of the action and if they did not approve someone should have stepped in and intervened and not stand there and record the incident.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree that anyone complacently standing around watching this torture and bullying is as culpable.

 

[teedie2]

BBM

One issue is labeling children as BEING problems, rather than HAVING problems.

Another is our willingness to believe every meme about schools that come down the pike--such as "teachers aren't allowed to touch children anymore."

And finally, there is the subtext that children need to be corporally punished in order to learn correct behavior. IOW, if only teachers were allowed to give out swats then these kinds of things wouldn't happen.

Here are a few facts about this story:

"A federal lawsuit says the boy - 3 feet 6 inches tall and 52 pounds - was removed from class last August because he was not following his teacher's directions. The boy then tried to leave the principal's office but was physically restrained by school administrators until Sumner arrived to escort the boy to the bathroom.

On the way back from the bathroom, the boy tried to hit Sumner with his elbow, according to a report from the Kenton County Sheriff's office cited in the lawsuit. That's when Sumner put him in handcuffs." http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...4-handcuffed-disabled-kids-case-kentucky.html

Now, those are the bare facts, missing is any information about setting conditions or emotional involvement (such as, what was the teacher instructing the child to do and how--why the child was not following through, how long was he restrained before the cop arrived to take him to the bathroom and what sorts of routine expectations were in place for this police officer in an elementary school). What was the role of the administrator (beyond filming the incident)?

In my experience, adults in schools are not always the best at de-escalating angry situations. In particular when dealing with children who are defined as being (not having) behavioral issues. Ignoring a child's legitimate needs (which are frequently diagnosed and documented via an IEP process) can be a handy means by which to move a kid into somebody else's realm of responsibility--simply by allowing behavior (or sometimes encouraging behavior) to escalate.

BTW--another lawsuit against the same officer in the same school involves another child with special needs. She was placed in seclusion/isolation and the cop used to keep her imprisoned there.

bbm

That used to be called "time out" and used to be initiated by the teacher. Is time out no more? Instead it is now called seclusion/isolation and imprisonment? Or is it time out when called by a teacher, and called harsher names if an officer is involved? (Why does it take an officer to do what a teacher used to be able to handle?)

Why wasn't the 3rd grader put on time out? Time outs I've seen involved padded walls so a child couldn't hurt him/herself, and a sparse amount of furniture, iirc. Why is LE involved anyway, especially with children that young.