Legal Q&A for Rhornsby #2

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Mr Hornsby, Are you willing to take an email on your website from [an unusual person], and just let me bounce things off you?

I know I've been a pain to you, but honestly, I don't understand what Baez is doing.

I promise to formulate my questions so they will not absorb an unreasonable amount of your time.

ps...If you want to charge me a consult fee, I'll pay it.
 
First, I would just say you both could be correct. When it comes to what constitutes enough premeditation, the case law basically leaves it to the trier of fact (jury) if their is some evidence suggesting premeditation. So it sounds like the two of you are having a classic juror debate - not one the case law will settle one way or the other.

As for the evidence you have mentioned, I think it is very strong circumstantial evidence that suggests guilt of something (interesting fact: DNA is actually circumstantial evidence by definition).

Finally, please don't get me started on the manner in which the body was disposed. I just cannot imagine that it was done alone - I PERSONALLY think someone else had to have assisted. But that is just my PERSONAL intuition.

I apologize in advance to those who my blunt language is about to offend, so turn away if you are squeamish.

Forensically, her car was fairly clean. There seems to be a complete lack of fingerprint evidence that should still be available (home test: go tear off a piece of duct tape and
see how often and firmly your fingers touch the tape side).

And lets talk superhuman strength, imagine a dead limp body. It cannot be easy to maneuver and even harder to get inside a small bag. And based on the evidence, when she finally disposed of the body it was already decaying, which means there would have been bodily fluid. Someone was bright enough to either think in advance, or get the original laundry bag into black plastic bags - that takes two people.

Okay, I got started and i am finished because i just know someone helped her - someone with law enforcement experience is my guess.

Respectfully bolded by me.

OMGosh! I can't believe I just logged on after a short time away & noticed these posts first! I've thought she had help since the very beginning, including her Diary of Days...which seems as though somebody guided her in how she could beat this and she wrote it down in poetic form as a reminder to herself! The first person people may think of is her father...but I don't think it's him...don't think it's Jesse either. As a matter of fact, I think it's another officer that could have guided her along. Not sure who would have helped her move Caylee, but her brother could fit that bill...I just don't see it being him, though.

Mr. Hornsby, do you happen to know if members of the OCSO frequent escort services once in awhile...say, maybe meet up at the Hard Rock Hotel? Just wondering...

Have to log off but I'll try to get back on later.
 
... I think Casey was being straight up truthful when she said she has "no idea where Caylee is".

Oh, I do, too. Except I think she's using the "is there a heaven?" mystery in order to be truthful. I think she does that as often as she can (finds a way to be truthful in her lies - to make them more convincing) JMO.

I appreciate RHornsby's response to why he thinks more than one person disposed of the body, but I don't agree. It's completely feasible that Casey could have done it alone. No one knows when the baby was put in the laundry bag...it could have been within minutes of her being killed (however that was done -- could have been a pillow over her face on the night of June 15th -- no one knows). This was a very small child. Easy to transport, even as dead weight (sorry for that description).
 
Totally agree.

I weigh 100lbs soaking wet and haul 50lb bags of dogfood all the time when working with the dogs.

Casey could do that by herself without any issue.
Adrenaline helps a bit too
.

I agree she acted alone, for it is a miserably stupid way to dispose of a body, and 2 heads would have devised a much better plan.....JMO
 
Alright, we've covered the taping and how it can be easily done without fingerprints, and some theories on why double bag and add the laundry bag with even a fit petit person carrying 40 pounds - but if Casey is innocent as the defense claims - how do they explain the smell and the body in the trunk. Correct me if I am wrong, but do we/we do know Casey drove her car until she abandoned it at Amscot.
My question is - what do you think the defense will use to argue why Casey drove her car with an obviously terrible smell in it (as she commented in her dead squirrels quote to Amy) and why wouldn't she like the average person, open her trunk, see what was in there and call the police or somebody or anybody to help her? Theories?
 
I agree she acted alone, for it is a miserably stupid way to dispose of a body, and 2 heads would have devised a much better plan.....JMO

ITA..I'm exactly KC's size and I have a daughter right around Caylee's weight. It's not as though you need to be careful with a dead body either. If someone in LE helped with the disposal of Caylee I'll eat my hat. I think someone in LE would have found a much better spot then down the street from the residence. To me, that is a no brainer. I also don't think KC is capable of keeping her mouth shut and not ratting out someone else. She's the type that would call that person out and blame everything on them 100%..she's stupid but she's not THAT stupid.
 
With all due respect to my fellow posters, can we please stay on topic on this thread and not turn it into another discussion/debate thread? I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing and debating topics amongst ourselves, but can we please keep this thread for Q and A with Mr. Hornsby?

Having said that, I would like to ask Mr. Hornsby:

All the evidence and information that has come out in the press... which side do you think it has helped the most and why?
 
I've got to disagree with some of your assistance theory.

If the LE who assisted Caylee was a member of KC's family, he did an awful job. The laundry bag found with the remains used to be in Caylee's room. Why didn't he bury the body? It was left out for wildlife and the neighbor's dogs. What man would be such a sissy that he wouldn't go back a little futher into the woods?

I get why KC wouldn't find digging a grave as easy as anticipated. And why she would be afraid of spiders and snakes. I can see KC removing the body from the car, dripping stuff, and not cleaning up afterwards. But, I don't see someone who comes across as OCD about car cleanliness being so sloppy. He especially wouldn't leave napkins covered with decomp behind.

That being said, I do think the car trunk was cleaned sometime after it was picked up from the towyard.
 
Supposing KC does (or is allowed to) change her story again, i.e. "yes, Caylee fell in the pool and I was scared and hid the body", could this about face compel her testimony at trial? Under what circumstances, if any, could she be compelled to testify?

Thanks in advance!
 
First, I would just say you both could be correct. When it comes to what constitutes enough premeditation, the case law basically leaves it to the trier of fact (jury) if their is some evidence suggesting premeditation. So it sounds like the two of you are having a classic juror debate - not one the case law will settle one way or the other.

If you are absolutely & truly morally offended by Casey, by her actions from beginning to end, in their entirety, isn't it going to be human nature that when asked to choose between 2 positions (the state vs. the defense), you're gonna come down on the side of the state? And how the heck is the defense going to get around that?

Blaise
 
I hate it when threads get......uh, nevermind. JMO
 
Mr. Hornsby you previously stated:

Please don't get me started on appellate issues!!!!

"Unless this case results in a plea (which would require a waiver of appellate claims), I would bet my last dollar that an appellate court would reverse this case - if not on direct appeal, on collateral appeal for ineffective assistance of counsel (Google Rule 3.850 Motion)".




Clearly no one knows how the Black Robes will rule, but meerly being an average attorney is not enough.

394 So.2d 997 (1981) Thomas KNIGHT, Petitioner, v. STATE of Florida, Respondent.

We adopt the following four principles as a standard to determine whether an attorney has provided reasonably effective assistance of counsel to his client.

First, the specific omission or overt act upon which the claim of ineffective assistance of counsel is based must be detailed in the appropriate pleading.

Second, the defendant has the burden to show that this specific omission or overt act was a substantial and serious deficiency measurably below that of competent counsel. To be `below average' is not enough, for that is self evidently the case half the time. The standard of shortfall is necessarily subjective, but it cannot be established merely by showing that counsel's acts or omissions deviated from a checklist of standards."

Third, the defendant has the burden to show that this specific, serious deficiency, when considered under the circumstances of the individual case, was substantial enough to demonstrate a prejudice to the defendant to the extent that there is a likelihood that the deficient conduct affected the een this standardoutcome of the court proceedings.

Fourth, in the event a defendant does show a substantial deficiency and presents a prima facie showing of prejudice, the state still has an opportunity to rebut these assertions by showing beyond a reasonable doubt that there was no prejudice in fact.

Given this standard, what would you cite as a reversible error made by the defense to date.
 
Respectfully bolded by me.

OMGosh! I can't believe I just logged on after a short time away & noticed these posts first! I've thought she had help since the very beginning, including her Diary of Days...which seems as though somebody guided her in how she could beat this and she wrote it down in poetic form as a reminder to herself! The first person people may think of is her father...but I don't think it's him...don't think it's Jesse either. As a matter of fact, I think it's another officer that could have guided her along. Not sure who would have helped her move Caylee, but her brother could fit that bill...I just don't see it being him, though.
Mr. Hornsby, do you happen to know if members of the OCSO frequent escort services once in awhile...say, maybe meet up at the Hard Rock Hotel? Just wondering...

Have to log off but I'll try to get back on later.

IF she had help in disposing of the body, I am leaning a little bit in the direction of Lee. He's displayed some odd behaviors, but it puzzles me that he has remained SO QUIET for over a year now in regards to his "best friend forever, KC". To my knowledge, he has made absolutely no attempt at defending his sister (didn't even participate in 48 Hours special) and I just have to wonder WHY he is ZIPPING IT so firmly, not even to defend his mother, who he has always been so close to (and who has taken quite a few hits publicly). Just makes me :waitasec::waitasec:
 
Mr. Hornsby you previously stated:

Please don't get me started on appellate issues!!!!

"Unless this case results in a plea (which would require a waiver of appellate claims), I would bet my last dollar that an appellate court would reverse this case - if not on direct appeal, on collateral appeal for ineffective assistance of counsel (Google Rule 3.850 Motion)".




Clearly no one knows how the Black Robes will rule, but meerly being an average attorney is not enough.

394 So.2d 997 (1981) Thomas KNIGHT, Petitioner, v. STATE of Florida, Respondent.

We adopt the following four principles as a standard to determine whether an attorney has provided reasonably effective assistance of counsel to his client.

First, the specific omission or overt act upon which the claim of ineffective assistance of counsel is based must be detailed in the appropriate pleading.

Second, the defendant has the burden to show that this specific omission or overt act was a substantial and serious deficiency measurably below that of competent counsel. To be `below average' is not enough, for that is self evidently the case half the time. The standard of shortfall is necessarily subjective, but it cannot be established merely by showing that counsel's acts or omissions deviated from a checklist of standards."

Third, the defendant has the burden to show that this specific, serious deficiency, when considered under the circumstances of the individual case, was substantial enough to demonstrate a prejudice to the defendant to the extent that there is a likelihood that the deficient conduct affected the een this standardoutcome of the court proceedings.

Fourth, in the event a defendant does show a substantial deficiency and presents a prima facie showing of prejudice, the state still has an opportunity to rebut these assertions by showing beyond a reasonable doubt that there was no prejudice in fact.

Given this standard, what would you cite as a reversible error made by the defense to date.
Quoting his client to the media and thus creating admissions against interest that can be admitted in evidence and used against her to show guilt.
 
Mr. Hornsby you previously stated:

Please don't get me started on appellate issues!!!!

"Unless this case results in a plea (which would require a waiver of appellate claims), I would bet my last dollar that an appellate court would reverse this case - if not on direct appeal, on collateral appeal for ineffective assistance of counsel (Google Rule 3.850 Motion)".




Clearly no one knows how the Black Robes will rule, but meerly being an average attorney is not enough.

394 So.2d 997 (1981) Thomas KNIGHT, Petitioner, v. STATE of Florida, Respondent.

We adopt the following four principles as a standard to determine whether an attorney has provided reasonably effective assistance of counsel to his client.

First, the specific omission or overt act upon which the claim of ineffective assistance of counsel is based must be detailed in the appropriate pleading.

Second, the defendant has the burden to show that this specific omission or overt act was a substantial and serious deficiency measurably below that of competent counsel. To be `below average' is not enough, for that is self evidently the case half the time. The standard of shortfall is necessarily subjective, but it cannot be established merely by showing that counsel's acts or omissions deviated from a checklist of standards."

Third, the defendant has the burden to show that this specific, serious deficiency, when considered under the circumstances of the individual case, was substantial enough to demonstrate a prejudice to the defendant to the extent that there is a likelihood that the deficient conduct affected the een this standardoutcome of the court proceedings.

Fourth, in the event a defendant does show a substantial deficiency and presents a prima facie showing of prejudice, the state still has an opportunity to rebut these assertions by showing beyond a reasonable doubt that there was no prejudice in fact.

Given this standard, what would you cite as a reversible error made by the defense to date.

I have wondered if she will try to claim he made her refuse a plea, didn't tell her about an offer made by the state. That is the only thing I can come up with at all.

I would assume even JB knows not to trust Casey and has a well documented file of their discussion of any and all offers and her acknowledgement that she alone is declining them.

Even if he doesn't she has been in the court room with the judge several times and will be several more times before a jury hears the case. She has been asked if she has any questions about the proceedings, so that would work against her. moo
 
Quoting his client to the media and thus creating admissions against interest that can be admitted in evidence and used against her to show guilt.

All outside statements of counsel can not be admitted as evidence.
 
I have wondered if she will try to claim he made her refuse a plea, didn't tell her about an offer made by the state. That is the only thing I can come up with at all.

I would assume even JB knows not to trust Casey and has a well documented file of their discussion of any and all offers and her acknowledgement that she alone is declining them.

Even if he doesn't she has been in the court room with the judge several times and will be several more times before a jury hears the case. She has been asked if she has any questions about the proceedings, so that would work against her. moo

She wrote that childish addendum to the motion recently claiming that Ashton was "angry" with her because she would not take a plea. I'd assume that would help JB, but were it not for the fact that his prior murder defendant made a similar claim after being sentenced; that the SA was upset at his refusal to plea and therefore had campaigned for a stiffer sentence.

The fact the two complaints by his defendants sound alike, it makes it appear he is using the SA as a scapegoat, or at least coaching his clients similarly to view the state as having some kind of axe to grind.
 
Why don't you guys start a felony murder v premeditated murder thread again so you can debate.
It would be great if this was for q&A. I can move some posts over to a new thread so you can carry on there.
 
Mr Hornsby,
I have been reading the new motions Baez filed tonight and something stands out to me.
After each, he and Andrea's name are in print along with "one of the attorney's for Casey Anthony"
Is that normal?
Just seems so uh..grade school to me..
 
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