Legal Questions for Our VERIFIED Lawyers #1

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Apologize if this is graphic.

Why hasn't there been any charges of abuse of a corpse?

Thank you.
 
Themis said:
There are other threads where we discuss the legal implications of a death by drowning. There is a legal myth going around that if Caylee drowned, it would be an accident and therefore KC would be innocent of the charges. Not so fast there my friends. KC was Caylee's mother and responsible for taking care of her. Parents don't "watch" their own kids. They do everything parents are supposed to do. One of this many duties includes making sure a toddler doesn't have access to an open swimming pool unattended. There can be homicide charges and criminal guilt in such a situation.
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ITA. And, if a child did drown, what caused the child to drown? Was it accidental or did someone deliberately drown the child?




Novice Seeker
 
If Casey did admit to a drowning wouldn't she still be legally obligated to render aid, or call 911? Do to good Samaritan laws, and/or her relationship to the victim?

Since Casey was her mother wouldn't there be some form of legal obligation other then good Samaritan laws that would require her to render aid or call 911? Would aggravated child abuse cover such an obligation?
 
Marspiter, that was my question also. Themis gives it an answer in post #79.
 
logicalgirl said:
Marspiter, that was my question also. Themis gives it an answer in post #79.
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Was kinda looking more for case law and/or the statute regarding rendering aid and/or a parental obligation to call 911 in the case of an emergency to a child (your own child in this case for example). Various state statutes regarding good Samaritan laws are different too and was wondering if anyone knew how it would apply in this case if the defense did claim an accident?

Mainly asking because like Themis said there is a myth that if it was an accident that Casey could walk because she is not guilty of the charges against here. Kinda wondering if this has been tried before by defense attorneys and if there are statutes or case law regarding such a thing.
 
Novice Seeker said:
ITA. And, if a child did drown, what caused the child to drown? Was it accidental or did someone deliberately drown the child?




Novice Seeker
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I think you are assuming that if the toddler wandered towards a pool while the parent was distracted or busy that it would be accidental and therefore not criminal. I think you are assuming that only if the parent held the toddler underwater and drown the child it would be murder. This is not true.

If the parent is caring for the child and while the parent is busy the toddler wanders towards the pool and falls in, the parent can be charged with and found guilty of a homicide! The parent has a duty to take the actions to keep the child safe. That may include putting the ladder away. Negligence kills kids. That negligence can be the basis of the general intent required for some criminal charges. Now, you say, "I know of so-and-so whose child drown in a pool and they weren't charged." What you are talking about there is prosecutorial discretion -- the choice of the State's Attorney or District Attorney not to charge and prosecute the case.
 
Themis said:
I think you are assuming that if the toddler wandered towards a pool while the parent was distracted or busy that it would be accidental and therefore not criminal. I think you are assuming that only if the parent held the toddler underwater and drown the child it would be murder. This is not true.

If the parent is caring for the child and while the parent is busy the toddler wanders towards the pool and falls in, the parent can be charged with and found guilty of a homicide! The parent has a duty to take the actions to keep the child safe. That may include putting the ladder away. Negligence kills kids. That negligence can be the basis of the general intent required for some criminal charges. Now, you say, "I know of so-and-so whose child drown in a pool and they weren't charged." What you are talking about there is prosecutorial discretion -- the choice of the State's Attorney or District Attorney not to charge and prosecute the case.
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Would this be where the aggravated child abuse comes in? In the case of a true accident where a child drowns could the state pursue a murder 1 charge?

Casey is also charged with manslaughter (if I remember right) so if an accident was provable (sorry I laughed while typing that) would the state still be able to pursue as a manslaughter case and then go for something like felony murder?

lol Sorry about these questions just trying to wrap my brain around this.
 
Marspiter,
I'm going to punt to AZlawyer or some of the other people whom I know are lawyers and are WS members but have not yet credentialed with Tricia. I wanted to reply because you are stating good questions, but I'm swamped with my work right now and can't spare the time.

Just one comment though, the after-the-fact things like calling 911 are not defenses. The crime would have been complete with the neglect itself, not the post-injury actions of the criminal. If I shoot someone in cold blood and have remorse afterwards it doesn't mean I didn't have the intent for premeditated murder at the time of pulling the trigger. I could even change my mind about killing someone while the bullet was in mid-air before it struck the victim, but I still would have committed premeditated murder.
 
I have a few questions for the lawyers.

JB has repeatedly said "You'll see why she is innocent at trial" or some other variation of that mantra. If the defense has exculpatory evidence, aren't they bound by the rules of discovery to turn that over to the prosecution? Is Florida a reciprocal discovery state?

If the defense does have some kind of smoking gun pointing to someone else and can prove KC's innocence, what "tactical" advantage is there to waiting for a trial and letting their client sit in jail for all this time, rather than just getting the actual guilty party arrested and possibly convicted? Aside from discovery, aren't there some kind of ethical boundaries being massacred by JB here in not getting his client released and the charges dismissed?

Can the prosecution attempt to depose KC? I understand it would be her right to claim protection under the 5th Amendment, but can the prosecution get her statements under oath anyway? Would there be any advantage to doing so?

The defense has had a very long time to prepare for this trial, it seems to me. With the indictment being handed down in October of 2008 and the actual trial likely scheduled for October 2010 at this point, what further legal delays might we see to delay this trial? What advantage can there possibly be, other than to just hope everyone associated with the case dies, to further delays?

Regarding the letter from an inmate (being discussed in another thread), would that be considered "hearsay" and not allowed into evidence, or can the defense argue that it "proves" someone else committed the crime?
 
Does the judge have to approve the questionaire before it is given to the potential jurors in the check fraud case? Can the prosecution challenge the questions? Seems like the questions could eliminate almost anyone who has not been living in a cave!

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/document-preview.aspx?doc_id=13097241

Is the time for jury selection limited? Or can the defense drag it out forever by rejecting every juror based on this overly intrusive(IMO)questionaire?
How many potential jurors can each side elliminate?
Wish we could watch jury selection. Is that open to the public?
Thanks,
Katharine
 
Kathy1964 said:
Does the judge have to approve the questionaire before it is given to the potential jurors in the check fraud case? Can the prosecution challenge the questions? Seems like the questions could eliminate almost anyone who has not been living in a cave!

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/document-preview.aspx?doc_id=13097241

Is the time for jury selection limited? Or can the defense drag it out forever by rejecting every juror based on this overly intrusive(IMO)questionaire?
How many potential jurors can each side elliminate?
Wish we could watch jury selection. Is that open to the public?
Thanks,
Katharine
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Yes, the judge has to approve the questionnaire and the prosecution can challenge the questions. The total time for jury selection is usually not limited per se, but for sure the judges here at least try to keep things moving and will give you a limited time to decide which jurors to strike. There should be a limited # of peremptory strikes (no cause required) and an unlimited number of for-cause strikes (the person has already made up their mind, hates police officers, etc. etc.) I got one juror struck for cause at my last trial because he insisted (repeatedly and vehemently, because I honestly thought I was misunderstanding him at first) that there was no such thing as truth, and that nothing could ever be said to have actually happened. Not just that the witnesses might be mistaken, but that nothing in the past has ever "really" happened at all. One wonders why he showed up, since he never "really" got the jury summons....

I wish we could watch the jury selection, too, but my guess is that we won't. Too many uninvolved people (prospective jurors) having to give lots of personal information.
 
hroark2112 said:
I have a few questions for the lawyers.

JB has repeatedly said "You'll see why she is innocent at trial" or some other variation of that mantra. If the defense has exculpatory evidence, aren't they bound by the rules of discovery to turn that over to the prosecution? Is Florida a reciprocal discovery state?

If the defense does have some kind of smoking gun pointing to someone else and can prove KC's innocence, what "tactical" advantage is there to waiting for a trial and letting their client sit in jail for all this time, rather than just getting the actual guilty party arrested and possibly convicted? Aside from discovery, aren't there some kind of ethical boundaries being massacred by JB here in not getting his client released and the charges dismissed?

Can the prosecution attempt to depose KC? I understand it would be her right to claim protection under the 5th Amendment, but can the prosecution get her statements under oath anyway? Would there be any advantage to doing so?

The defense has had a very long time to prepare for this trial, it seems to me. With the indictment being handed down in October of 2008 and the actual trial likely scheduled for October 2010 at this point, what further legal delays might we see to delay this trial? What advantage can there possibly be, other than to just hope everyone associated with the case dies, to further delays?

Regarding the letter from an inmate (being discussed in another thread), would that be considered "hearsay" and not allowed into evidence, or can the defense argue that it "proves" someone else committed the crime?
Click to expand...

This is a reciprocal discovery case, because KC has elected to participate in reciprocal discovery. (If a defendant does not elect to participate, they don't get as much information from the state and also don't have to give much (or any?--not sure) information to the state.)

So the defense would have to disclose the witnesses and exhibits they intend to use at trial, plus any statements made by any of their listed witnesses and any expert reports or statements. The way I read the rule (http://www.cobblawfirm.com/Rules_Discovery.htm), they would have to disclose expert reports and statements whether or not they have listed the experts, but I suspect JB and AL would interpret that part of the rule differently. ;)

However, the defense would not have to disclose their theories, their cross-examination plans, or what they think a witness will say that has not been preserved in a "statement" anywhere. (But the prosecutors could take depositions of the defense witnesses to find out what they know.)

The only tactical advantage to keeping a clearly innocent client in jail would be to save the win for trial to get media attention. ;) Which would be unethical. The advantage in delay would be to actually start getting ready for trial, which the defense hasn't really done yet as far as we can tell.

There would be no point in attempting to depose KC as she would take the 5th and not answer anything (like in the civil case filed by ZG).

The letter from the inmate is definitely hearsay. Obviously the defense can "investigate" haha to see if the allegations made in the letter are true and present any "evidence" haha they find at trial.
 
Can this new "conspiracy theory" letter, just released, be used by the defense to satisfy their need to supply solid evidence by the end of this month?

AND....what exactly would be considered "evidence" from the defense....the adress info about Juliet Lewis, etc. in this letter??

TIA for any replies!!
 
And if KC claimed that her daughter accidentially drowned would she not have to give up her "get out of jail free card" because of the duct tape?
 
Lambchop, I am SO:waitasec: waiting to hear the defense's explanation for that duct tape!!
 
This is a query aimed at Floridians in the law or LE field. What's up with the shackles being on when KC is in court? I mean, in Allegheny County, the shackles come off in the basement, and then the cuffs in the "bullpen". When time to face justice arrives you are cuffed again UNTIL in the courtroom. Also, you CAN'T wear your prison garb, even if all you have are a t-shirt & flip-flops. That's so the 'jury' is not prejudiced by your get up. Now, if you are a trouble-maker, all bets are off. Was the past KC displays due to it just being hearings, depos, etc.?
 
Just a reminder this thread is for legal Q&A.
As always where this post lands is not a reflection of any surrounding posts.
 
Hi AZLawyer or Themis! Can you please explain what "withhold adjudication" means re the check fraud case? Does this mean it won't show as a record on her criminal trial??? Thanks.
 
Not sure what state Themis is from. In AZ, we don't do deferred/withheld adjudication. When the issue comes up re: the effect of prior proceedings in other states (Florida and Texas come to mind), we treat deferred adjudication as a conviction. But for some reason I'm thinking that Florida and Texas do NOT treat their OWN deferred adjudications as convictions.

I'm hoping RHornsby will clear it all up for us. :)
 
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