Lies point us to the truth #2

[danablue1]

If BDI I don't think Patsy was worried about Burke going to jail, but her reputation and image. She would be a mom that raised a "monster". I think the home was dysfunctional and she knew it but she was too busy with decorating and matching outfits. The Grand Jury saw through this, saying the parents permitted JonBenét to be placed in a dangerous situation.

That's sad if she cared about those things more than her own daughter

 

[UKGuy]

Help me with the BR theory, here.

Let's say he did kill her. He's 9 years old. He's not going to jail. Never going to happen. Not to mention, if I'm reading this forum correctly the idea is that he killed her out of jealousy because J.B. got all the attention. Then suddenly, the parents learn he killed their daughter. At this point, we have to belive that in that soul shattering moment, two adults decide the best thing to shield their son from (at worst) evaluation and treatment
And write a preposterous ransom note, and do things that could only invite more scrutiny on themselves, whom can go to prison for life.

It makes no sense.

I also say the odds of one parent killing a child and the other being willing to cover it up are astronomical.

BPD messed up. There is no disputing that.
It seems like instead of owning it. They danced around it.

I don't understand Colorado law. But it seems to me the Colorado State police, should take over the case.

Eddie99,
It makes no sense because you do not reference the complete BDI theory.

1. Patsy likely asphyxiated JonBenet using the paintbrush and ligature.

2. BR might have simply rendered JonBenet unconcious, i.e. in a coma state.

3. There is forensic of prior chronic sexual abuse.

4. There is forensic evidence of, at the crime-scene, sexual abuse.

5. One of the parents wrote the ransom note.

6. All three Ramsey's colluded in postmortem staging.

7. Colorado State Statute mandates BR can never be connected to the death of JonBenet.

So on the night Patsy and John know JonBenet has gone forever, all they have left is Burke, so to save him rather than lose him into the Colorado State System they both decide to stage a crime-scene.

The above follows from both parents realizing they had left JonBenet in a position of danger. This was reflected in the True Bills where they were both hit with Child Neglect True Bills!

.

 

[proust20]

While the R timeline is inconsistent, there are markers, e.g. TOD, which establish a framework to which events must conform. The RN betrays knowledge that JB is dead. As the RN had to have been begun by 5:25AM, the parents would have known for some time about the WC staging. This doesn't jibe with Patsy arising at 5. The time to write the RN plus the gap between head blow and ligature adds up to a good 45 min. There'd be around four or five hours between the death and the 911?

The flight to MI gave the Rs an unavoidable deadline. They would have been watching the clock. The 911 had to be placed at the last reasonable moment. The RN provided its own timeline for the Rs to follow, to which they oddly paid no mind. Although, the 7AM flight was cancelled, JR wanted to fly away a bit later. Did he intend to take his wife and son with him to this urgent business meeting?

Burke's presence at the 911 made the Rs see that he was in the way. "We're not talking to you." BR had to have had time to adjust to his role. I don't think that the idea of his playing possum was dreamt up right after Patsy hung up the phone. JR brought his son back upstairs? I do not understand if John is still supposed to be in his underwear during the 911.

 

[InstantProof]

Burke's presence at the 911 made the Rs see that he was in the way. "We're not talking to you." BR had to have had time to adjust to his role. I don't think that the idea of his playing possum was dreamt up right after Patsy hung up the phone. JR brought his son back upstairs? I do not understand if John is still supposed to be in his underwear during the 911.

It may not really matter but I always thought Bruke was listening upstairs to the commotion and 911 call. He leans over a banister, or comes down a couple of steps to ask his question and John's stern response translates to get back in your room.
I don't think he is down there or aware of the ransom note which is why he's curious what Patsy is talking about on the call. Interesting he doesn't ask instead "did you find her?"

 

[Rain on my Parade]

How long was JR in the shower? Supposedly, he got up first. Then, he read the RN on the floor in his underwear, almost at the same time as the 911. Forty five minutes after arising, JR was still in his underwear? The family had to get ready for the flight to MI at 7AM.

Burke's presence at the 911 made the Rs see that he was in the way. "We're not talking to you." BR had to have had time to adjust to his role. I don't think that the idea of his playing possum was dreamt up right after Patsy hung up the phone. JR brought his son back upstairs? I do not understand if John is still supposed to be in his underwear during the 911.

proust20,

JR stating to BR we’re not talking to you just doesn’t seem appropriate tone to take with one child while another is thought to be kidnapped. As a parent I would want to keep my other child with me (not knowing if somebody was still in the house etc).

I do not believe JR was ever on his hands and knees on the floor reading the RN. For one thing he has no prints of any kind found on the RN. Did he ever read it?

The 911 phone call was place at 5:52 am. Officer Rick French arrived (5:59am). So, do we believe PR story line of JR being on his hands and knees in his underwear during the 911 call? JR would have had to run up two flights of stairs and return downstairs (calm, cool and collected) standing at the breakfast bar, while PR opened the door.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

The question is at what point did the case become BDI for BPD and Alex Hunter, et al? As this would determine their initial approach?

UKGuy,

I believe all the phone calls were in place before Officer French arrived that morning. But that didn’t stop him or Arndt stating the obvious. Something wasn’t right that morning with the parents.

Sending an ex-drugs investigator to run the show looks questionable after the event?

Was ST an ex drug detective when he was assigned to the case?

JR attempting to flee interstate by private plane tells you the extent of his arrogance, some might even classify it as an example of CEO Psychopathy?

JR was suppose to be flying out to Michigan that morning. Suddenly he had an ‘urgent’ need to attend a business meeting in Atlanta. Why? It sounds correct to state the high flying CEO failed to play his cards right by the action of phoning his pilot that morning. Maybe it was code?

Once JR leaves us ex-police officers will do interviews citing evidence where JR staged things. So there is more to come, and BR will have to be prepared to do media interviews or face trial by the media. It will be interesting as to whom BR engages as his legal advisor?

BR will still have to answer to the media trial. Obviously LW if he is still around.

The case has possibly another twenty years to run until it becomes jaded and boring, although there might never be a conviction, some of the unreleased evidence can tell us whether the case is RDI and which Ramsey killed JonBenet?

Unreleased evidence would be great in this case. I believe we all look forward to this.

I can imagine the headlines: Did JonBenet's Mother Kill Her To Save Burke?

This would be straight from the National Enquirer. Does that rag still exist?

 

[danablue1]

Eddie99,
It makes no sense because you do not reference the complete BDI theory.

1. Patsy likely asphyxiated JonBenet using the paintbrush and ligature.

2. BR might have simply rendered JonBenet unconcious, i.e. in a coma state.

3. There is forensic of prior chronic sexual abuse.

4. There is forensic evidence of, at the crime-scene, sexual abuse.

5. One of the parents wrote the ransom note.

6. All three Ramsey's colluded in postmortem staging.

7. Colorado State Statute mandates BR can never be connected to the death of JonBenet.

So on the night Patsy and John know JonBenet has gone forever, all they have left is Burke, so to save him rather than lose him into the Colorado State System they both decide to stage a crime-scene.

The above follows from both parents realizing they had left JonBenet in a position of danger. This was reflected in the True Bills where they were both hit with Child Neglect True Bills!

.

Is the neglect and child endangerment by both R's the failure to seek medical attention for JB after the head blow by BR?

 

[danablue1]

I just don't get the elaborate coverup why not just say she fell and hit her head or say they found her at the bottom of the stairs and call 911 if they didn't want to implicate anyone

 

[UKGuy]

proust20,

JR stating to BR we’re not talking to you just doesn’t seem appropriate tone to take with one child while another is thought to be kidnapped. As a parent I would want to keep my other child with me (not knowing if somebody was still in the house etc).

I do not believe JR was ever on his hands and knees on the floor reading the RN. For one thing he has no prints of any kind found on the RN. Did he ever read it?

The 911 phone call was place at 5:52 am. Officer Rick French arrived (5:59am). So, do we believe PR story line of JR being on his hands and knees in his underwear during the 911 call? JR would have had to run up two flights of stairs and return downstairs (calm, cool and collected) standing at the breakfast bar, while PR opened the door.

Rain on my Parade,

The 911 phone call was place at 5:52 am. Officer Rick French arrived (5:59am). So, do we believe PR story line of JR being on his hands and knees in his underwear during the 911 call? JR would have had to run up two flights of stairs and return downstairs (calm, cool and collected) standing at the breakfast bar, while PR opened the door.

No, JR was too busy staging the basement artifacts.

BBM: Nicely worked out. The Ramsey Version of Events is obviously fake, just an attempt to match the staging to their storyline.

When will folks catch on, its been many years now, the basement hosts a staged crime-scene, one which the parents tweaked then dialled 911, its that simple.

.

 

[UKGuy]

Is the neglect and child endangerment by both R's the failure to seek medical attention for JB after the head blow by BR?

danablue1,
No, that might represent 1st Degree Homicide?

Here is the True Bill:

COUNT IV
On or about December 25, and December 26, 1996 in Boulder County, Colorado, John Bennett Ramsey (or alternately, Patricia Paugh Ramsey) did unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly and feloniously permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenet Ramsey, a child under the age of sixteen.

As to Count IV, child abuse resulting in death:

A TRUE BILL

Signature redacted.

That's pretty much in your face: child abuse resulting in death!

.

 

[UKGuy]

I just don't get the elaborate coverup why not just say she fell and hit her head or say they found her at the bottom of the stairs and call 911 if they didn't want to implicate anyone

danablue1,
Because there was evidence of chronic and acute sexual assault, so the parents knew this could not be hidden.

So the staging was a fling of the dice an attempt to play for time and see how it all worked out.

JR was on his phone to his pilot to arrange a flight out of Colorado interstate ASAP that morning, so this tells you what his game plan was.

The coverup is just smoke and mirrors with an intent to evade prosecution, in this they were successful.

Most folks know the family was involved, but nobody has found the Smoking Gun that tells us exactly who did what?

.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,

I believe all the phone calls were in place before Officer French arrived that morning. But that didn’t stop him or Arndt stating the obvious. Something wasn’t right that morning with the parents.



Was ST an ex drug detective when he was assigned to the case?



JR was suppose to be flying out to Michigan that morning. Suddenly he had an ‘urgent’ need to attend a business meeting in Atlanta. Why? It sounds correct to state the high flying CEO failed to play his cards right by the action of phoning his pilot that morning. Maybe it was code?



BR will still have to answer to the media trial. Obviously LW if he is still around.



Unreleased evidence would be great in this case. I believe we all look forward to this.



This would be straight from the National Enquirer. Does that rag still exist?

Rain on my Parade,

Was ST an ex drug detective when he was assigned to the case?

Pretty much so. He was not a seasoned homicide investigator.

JR was suppose to be flying out to Michigan that morning. Suddenly he had an ‘urgent’ need to attend a business meeting in Atlanta. Why? It sounds correct to state the high flying CEO failed to play his cards right by the action of phoning his pilot that morning. Maybe it was code?

He thought PR and himself would be arrested and detained for interview, he never knew for certain, being involved he was not going to take any chances, he was skipping town ASAP!

This would be straight from the National Enquirer. Does that rag still exist?

I think so, did it not publish the Jeff Bezos story?

Someone told me the NR has sleaze stories on US politicians, ex-presidents, etc. All locked up in safe somewhere.

Maybe I mixed Jeff Bezos up with Donald Trump and the revelations regarding Wandering Hand Syndrome.

NR's public service is to buy up the latest sleaze on the elite and lock it away in the safe. Everyone is happy, including NR who now have leverage.

.

 

[danablue1]

danablue1,
No, that might represent 1st Degree Homicide?

Here is the True Bill:


That's pretty much in your face: child abuse resulting in death!

.

Fair enough Do you think BR was involved in the murder and or coverup or just the parents

 

[armygirl2319]

You know,
Lies that shall lead us to the truth. There are so many blatant red flags in the case. If I didn’t understand the American Justice system I could not make sense of this case and the why hasn’t the R’s been held accountable. Somehow they contributed to the SA, torture, murder, abuse of their own child and/or at least covered up for someone else that did. The true bills speak of this. We must remember that they were offered a public apology and exonerated by a government official. I would understand this to also mean: that one covered for the other. Yet, we have a third player (known within the home) that Christmas night. When a crime is committed, the person leaves something behind and takes something away; it can be microscopic in size. Moving the body can contaminate things big time. So as the world turns, so are the days of our lives. The story begins …
''Our daughter arrived home zonked out. JR carries JB upstairs. His dna fibers from that Israel shirt should be on her top as that item was never changed. JB didn’t wake when (PR) removed her boots, pants, vest and dressed her by adding another ponytail (plus the green garland), BR long johns, the size 12 bloomies. So PR dna should be found on all of these items.
The story deviates per the third party. BR stated that JB was awake and walked up the spiral stairs, with PR following behind. Who knows maybe JB was already in trouble at this point? Maybe PR put a diaper on JB and the only existing pair of size 12 bloomies over it? You know the ones she said she put seven pairs into JB panty drawer. Yet the remaining (brand new) 6 pairs simply vanished.
Now let’s shift, think about the pineapple snack found on the dining room table. It apparently belonged to the third party. His fingerprints were found on it. I wonder about that fruit cocktail JB had? Where is that evidence linking? The pineapple matched down to the rind in their fridge (found in JB intestine - postmortem) so if they discovered that then FBI/BPD crime scene, should have also retrieved their trash and checked the dishwasher? There was also a fruit cocktail with this pineapple. Where does the evidence point us. JB did consume BR pineapple. BR said she was awake when they got home. We know by watching BR via the Dr. Bernard interview that he was a germaphobe and self absorbed boy so had JB taken a piece with her fingers he could have lost his cool. Logic tells us that if JB was so zonked out, she didn’t wake; but then a few minutes later she does and consumes the pineapple? I believe the timeline here is a hour and a half after consumption. Arrival home and the crime itself happened rather quickly.
But, the real question is what happened that night that led to the coverup via SA?
Was JB fed up and threatened to tell on her abuser/abusers? Was the SA a perversion of her fathers. Or, maybe corporal punishment by her mother. Or, a game gone bad at the hand of her brother/brothers? TBC …

I know I am new to this discussion but I don't understand why anyone thinks she was killed at the house. It is much more logical she was killed somewhere else and they brought the dead girl home to stage the scene. The oversized panties which PR probably did buy, for another child, a child that lived where the real murder happened, were used because that was all that was available and her actual underwear probably were compromised. The fruit was eaten at this party as well. No way a mother puts those on a child without realizing they are the wrong size and JBR was too old for diapers especially considering she was on the pageant circuit.

The whole story reeks of child sex trafficking. My guess is they were at a Christmas party and the children were for sale during it. Probably way more than just their own. One of the perverts killed JBR and they brought her home in the suitcase. They started with convincing the brother she was alive when they came home, coached him. Once they put him down they staged the scene. They called the police before they were really ready because time of death couldn't be allowed to go too long before the police were called. Their helpful friends were all at the Christmas party and were helping screw up the scene because they were involved.

The falling out with the Whites would have to do with things they couldn't say publicly hence the absurd story they give for it. Nothing about the scene of the crime makes sense and adds up if it happened there. And I just don't buy the brother being the prep. He was very young and mostly likely doesn't remember much. Colorado is known in conspiracy circles as being a heavy child sex trafficking spot for elites. The Ramsey's were involved with big time serious people and the whole pageant thing screams that this was a trafficking case.
Before the murder PR and JBR were on a talk show about kids in pageants and even then it was obvious JBR was very disassociated. The parents covered it up because they were guilty, not of the murder but of how the murder happened. They could never tell the truth about any of the real details without screwing themselves big time.

 

[UKGuy]

Fair enough Do you think BR was involved in the murder and or coverup or just the parents

danablue1,
BR was involved, with the parents hiding his amateurish staging via their own staging teaks.

In my BDI Patsy asphyxiates JonBenet. Consider how JonBenet was offered no medical assistance.

So the parents are covering up BR's childish attempts at staging, in this process JonBenet is ligature asphyxiated.

Bottom line, it can be shown all three Ramsey's were involved in postmortem staging, so they all know who killed JonBenet.

.

 

[armygirl2319]

I felt like the gifts were another overlooked detail that Patsy had to improvise on. She may not have even known that they were partially opened until she was asked about them. I don't believe Patsy was the one who opened them. If B did so innocently, why would she take responsibility for that? Peeking into their presents is something kids commonly do. Why does she not want to associate B with the partially opened presents? Did it have something to do with what happened? Did he go back downstairs after his parents were in bed, to go take a peek? This is something that makes me wonder if BDI.

I don' think it is a matter of covering up for BR but more of not wanting investigators to talk to him as the parents were afraid of what he would reveal. They sent him away with the Whites and most likely have coached him extensively. I find it crazy so many people want to call a 9 year old a cold blooded murderer.
Children who act out sexually at that young of an age are being sexually abused meaning BR was most likely a victim of SA too. The sweat pants with fecal matter on it only supports this. The missing panties of JBR also supports this was what was happening to those kids that night.

 

[Always Stay Hopeful]

I don' think it is a matter of covering up for BR but more of not wanting investigators to talk to him as the parents were afraid of what he would reveal. They sent him away with the Whites and most likely have coached him extensively. I find it crazy so many people want to call a 9 year old a cold blooded murderer.
Children who act out sexually at that young of an age are being sexually abused meaning BR was most likely a victim of SA too. The sweat pants with fecal matter on it only supports this. The missing panties of JBR also supports this was what was happening to those kids that night.

This is a very good post. I don't mention B because I want to call a nine year-old a cold blooded murderer, but because I don't want to exclude something that's possible. There have been children in the past who have murdered kids younger than themselves. Age does not determine innocence, although it's far more unlikely for a child to kill. I don't know what happened.

 

[Eddie99]

The only "official statement" I've seen that suggests that JBR was the victim of abuse (other than the trauma from the night of the murder) is that Arndt lady. Whom was subsequently fired, after her tv interview.

(I want to say that there was something published about her previous medical records from her pediatrician- that never indicated any type of abuse)

Another point is that in that interview she did on TV - she made a statement to the effect that, she re-positioned her shoulder holster, because "she didn't know if everyone would be alive, by the time police reinforcements arrived." The implication being that she was afraid John was gonna kill her. I think it's worth noting that her fears were void of merit, by virtue of the fact, nothing even close to that happened. She added that anecdote - as means to underscore her gut feelings, but the cold hard fact is that she was wrong.

She also made hay out of the fact no one called with ransom instructions. But the note said, we will call tomorrow which would be the 27th. Given the note was likley written on the 26th. That would be a Friday, and I'm inclined to think that's when the banks would be open.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,

No, JR was too busy staging the basement artifacts.

BBM: Nicely worked out. The Ramsey Version of Events is obviously fake, just an attempt to match the staging to their storyline.

When will folks catch on, its been many years now, the basement hosts a staged crime-scene, one which the parents tweaked then dialled 911, its that simple.

.

UKGuy,

PR let it slip that when she was waiting for JR for further instructions (911 call) he walked up the stairs not down them. This is a further clue that he came from the basement that morning.

 

[danablue1]

I know I am new to this discussion but I don't understand why anyone thinks she was killed at the house. It is much more logical she was killed somewhere else and they brought the dead girl home to stage the scene. The oversized panties which PR probably did buy, for another child, a child that lived where the real murder happened, were used because that was all that was available and her actual underwear probably were compromised. The fruit was eaten at this party as well. No way a mother puts those on a child without realizing they are the wrong size and JBR was too old for diapers especially considering she was on the pageant circuit.

The whole story reeks of child sex trafficking. My guess is they were at a Christmas party and the children were for sale during it. Probably way more than just their own. One of the perverts killed JBR and they brought her home in the suitcase. They started with convincing the brother she was alive when they came home, coached him. Once they put him down they staged the scene. They called the police before they were really ready because time of death couldn't be allowed to go too long before the police were called. Their helpful friends were all at the Christmas party and were helping screw up the scene because they were involved.

The falling out with the Whites would have to do with things they couldn't say publicly hence the absurd story they give for it. Nothing about the scene of the crime makes sense and adds up if it happened there. And I just don't buy the brother being the prep. He was very young and mostly likely doesn't remember much. Colorado is known in conspiracy circles as being a heavy child sex trafficking spot for elites. The Ramsey's were involved with big time serious people and the whole pageant thing screams that this was a trafficking case.
Before the murder PR and JBR were on a talk show about kids in pageants and even then it was obvious JBR was very disassociated. The parents covered it up because they were guilty, not of the murder but of how the murder happened. They could never tell the truth about any of the real details without screwing themselves big time.

No disrespect but sex trafficking is pretty far fetched. Sometimes the answer is just that simple. An accident that couldn't easily be explained and was covered up by a staged confusing crime scene. Some of these conspiracy theories are a little bit out there.