Linda arndt's gut feeling on 12/26

[JBean]

I would say within days, whereas they had lawyers within hours. I don't believe they got attorney's in response to Det. Arndt's gut feeling. Unless they were going on a gut feeling. In which case, what's good for the goose is good for the gander in my book.

I don't think the case was based on her feeling either, I was just brainstorming the notion of giving her 'gut" any value.
I do think the Ramseys knew right away they were suspects. If I had been them, I probably would have proceeded with the advice of an attorney as well. I have seen LE and the DA spin tales and it can be indefensible.
How much and how far I would have cooperated would depend largely on the position of the DA and LE.

 

[BBB167893]

"Regarding the 'gut' or 'hunch' of an officer, that can lead to a lot of trouble, IMO.It is a good competent officer that knows how to act on their "instinct" and that usually involves skill."

Depends, I guess. My gut instincts tend to be correct a good percentage of the time.

"You got it Capps. Then people find it odd that the R's got attorneys."

No, just that they had them so quickly and for the extended family.

"How much and how far I would have cooperated would depend largely on the position of the DA and LE."

You'll get no quibble from me on that one, JBean. It's the flip-flopping that I don't like. What I mean is, John, in many interviews, claims that he and Patsy cooperated fully. But often, RIGHT AFTER he says that, he says that the reason they DIDN'T cooperate is because the cops were "out to get them."

Which is it?

You can't have BOTH.

 

[capps]

Quote by Jolynna:
"In my opinion,Linda Arndt acted in the beginning as if the Ramseys were what she expected them to be, frightened and innocent parents. That is why she allowed the Ramsey's friends and minister to be with them for comfort. That is why, in my opinion, she asked John and Fleet to search the house again.
I think Arndt assumed because of the Ramsey's obvious affluence (and maybe because their MINISTER was there in support) that these were good people who could be trusted to be allies.
However, as the day passed, after the body was found and the phone call to the pilot to go to Atlanta made, the red flags became too obvious to ignore."

That's just the point Jolynna,it wasn't as the day passed,after the body was found, that she came to her conclusion.

She had no concerns about John before he found the body,but within just moments after finding the body, and in her own words, stated she suddenly had a thousand points of light go off in her head,and at that very moment decided,without a doubt in her mind,that John was the killer of JonBenet. Not much of wiggle room there,she didn't state that because of the look,she seemed to think that John gave her was strange,that maybe he was involved some how, noooo,she decided John was the killer.What could have possibly happened in a span of moments,from her to not have a concern with John,to declare she thought without a doubt he is the killer.

That's is pretty dangerous words coming from the lead detective,and could have easily set a tone to how things were handled afterward.

It's the same kind of attitude Arndt had when she was claiming she was being stalked by one of the Ramsey's friends. When the interviewer was trying to pinpoint just how this friend was stalking her,it was like pulling teeth trying to get a direct cohesive answer from her.

I find her exasperating!

 

[JBean]

1. "Regarding the 'gut' or 'hunch' of an officer, that can lead to a lot of trouble, IMO.It is a good competent officer that knows how to act on their "instinct" and that usually involves skill."

Depends, I guess. My gut instincts tend to be correct a good percentage of the time.

There are those that accuse some IDI's of operating off of gut or feeling and find that to be a weakness. I see you rely on that at times as well. Thanks for your honesty.

"How much and how far I would have cooperated would depend largely on the position of the DA and LE."

You'll get no quibble from me on that one, JBean. It's the flip-flopping that I don't like. What I mean is, John, in many interviews, claims that he and Patsy cooperated fully. But often, RIGHT AFTER he says that, he says that the reason they DIDN'T cooperate is because the cops were "out to get them."

Which is it?

Excellent point and I will only quibble a little bit.. I think degrees of cooperation have often been an issue, so The R's did cooperate to a degree. But certainly not to the extent that many would have liked ;so the reluctance to cooperate "all the way", may be what JR is referring to.
But really, I uderstand what you are saying and what you mean.

 

[BBB167893]

"Excellent point and I will only quibble a little bit.. I think degrees of cooperation have often been an issue, so The R's did cooperate to a degree. But certainly not to the extent that many would have liked ;so the reluctance to cooperate "all the way", may be what JR is referring to.
But really, I uderstand what you are saying and what you mean."

You and I are not so different after all.

He may be referring to that. But I've been of the mindset that if you don't do something all the way, don't do it at all. Maybe that's too simplistic, but that's how I live.

 

[IrishMist]

"Excellent point and I will only quibble a little bit.. I think degrees of cooperation have often been an issue, so The R's did cooperate to a degree. But certainly not to the extent that many would have liked ;so the reluctance to cooperate "all the way", may be what JR is referring to.
But really, I uderstand what you are saying and what you mean."

You and I are not so different after all.

He may be referring to that. But I've been of the mindset that if you don't do something all the way, don't do it at all. Maybe that's too simplistic, but that's how I live.

Yup, as I always say, much to the IrishMister's chagrin, "any job, big or small, do it right, or not at all!"

He hates that.

But I digress.

I think that what bothers me is that they claim they've co-operated. And to an extent, they have. But when they pick and choose about what they co-operate on... well, it makes me suspicious.

When they don't want to co-operate in a certain area, i.e. the phone records, it makes me wonder why?

 

[JBean]

"."

You and I are not so different after all.

He may be referring to that. But I've been of the mindset that if you don't do something all the way, don't do it at all. Maybe that's too simplistic, but that's how I live.

I will definitely agree that that philosphy applies to many of my endeavors. But I cannot get into JR's head and speak to his mindset. maybe he was doing it all the way ,to his way of thinking. Don't know. Maybe he felt he was going above and beyond, don't know.

 

[gaia]

My "take" on Linda A's "gut" that morning is she was alone in this big house with all these people milling around and a child missing, presumed kidnapped. Time must have "stood still" for her while she was there without backup. Then, John found the body of his dead daughter. How AWFUL was that? I cannot imagine the scene even though I've had it described in books and on TV. It must have been horrifying...eery and sick. The very sight of JB had to have been awful. Then, you have the parents registering horror and grief while a group of others were probably doing the same. Chaos! I just don't think ANYONE, not even Linda A., could have felt or seen anything going on with a calm, practiced eye. The scene was almost supernatural.

gaia:twocents:

 

[BBB167893]

JBean, I think he thinks he's above the law.

 

[JBean]

JBean, I think he thinks he's above the law.

I wrote something similar somewhere else, but in a bit differnt context. It's not the law as much as they have their own rules. That's why not heeding the instructions of the abductors, would be very predictable behavior for the R's.As an IDI, I know full well that this can be turned right around on me, but I still see it a bit differnt.
I often wondered if The R's were warned of this happening if they did not comply with something; extortion for lack of a better word. But of course they would never give in to someon else calling the shots, IMO.This would explain some of their odd behavior as they were responsible in a way, even though they didn't "pull the trigger." They didn't heed the warning and JBR paid the price as promised.In that case, perhaps Burke's life was in danger and they did choose to comply this time, which may explain why they didn't really want the perp to be caught, in that they were addressing whatever it was now on their own.Not taking chances that Burke could ne next..don't know just a thought.But if you thinnk it through, it makes all kinds of sense and explains why they wouldn;t want to "cooperate" fully with LE. The only case where they may not want the perp to be caught, because the consequences for Burke could be the same.
Not sure if that makes sense to you, but the fact they they "were above the law" works the whole other way for me and that points to their innocence for me rather than their guilt.
I do very strongly beleive that this was done by a 100% professional and I do not think the R's rise to that level.

 

[BBB167893]

"I do very strongly beleive that this was done by a 100% professional and I do not think the R's rise to that level."

No way. A professional would not be this sloppy. That's what the FBI said.

 

[IrishMist]

I wrote something similar somewhere else, but in a bit differnt context. It's not the law as much as they have their own rules. That's why not heeding the instructions of the abductors, would be very predictable behavior for the R's.As an IDI, I know full well that this can be turned right around on me, but I still see it a bit differnt.
I often wondered if The R's were warned of this happening if they did not comply with something; extortion for lack of a better word. But of course they would never give in to someon else calling the shots, IMO.This would explain some of their odd behavior as they were responsible in a way, even though they didn't "pull the trigger." They didn't heed the warning and JBR paid the price as promised.In that case, perhaps Burke's life was in danger and they did choose to comply this time, which may explain why they didn't really want the perp to be caught, in that they were addressing whatever it was now on their own.Not taking chances that Burke could ne next..don't know just a thought.But if you thinnk it through, it makes all kinds of sense and explains why they wouldn;t want to "cooperate" fully with LE. The only case where they may not want the perp to be caught, because the consequences for Burke could be the same.
Not sure if that makes sense to you, but the fact they they "were above the law" works the whole other way for me and that points to their innocence for me rather than their guilt.
I do very strongly beleive that this was done by a 100% professional and I do not think the R's rise to that level.

This has crossed my mind before, because if they didn't do it, they sure seem like they know who did. But then I think that they would have used their security system. And if they didn't like that system so much, they would have installed a new one. If you are messing around with folks that make those kinds of threats, and you aren't doing what they want... wouldn't you at least try to protect yourselves and your family?

And I have to agree with SD. I don't think this all looks a professional at all.

 

[JBean]

"I do very strongly beleive that this was done by a 100% professional and I do not think the R's rise to that level."

No way. A professional would not be this sloppy. That's what the FBI said.

I disagree..but who am I?

 

[IrishMist]

I disagree..but who am I?

uh... you're JBean? Maybe it's time you took a break, honey...

 

[JBean]

uh... you're JBean? Maybe it's time you took a break, honey...

Jbean, Jbean,Jbean okay got it.

 

[IrishMist]

Jbean, Jbean,Jbean okay got it.

You made me laugh right out loud!!!

 

[JBean]

You made me laugh right out loud!!!

Okay. my work here is done. I shall take that break now.

 

[Jolynna]

I will definitely agree that that philosphy applies to many of my endeavors. But I cannot get into JR's head and speak to his mindset. maybe he was doing it all the way ,to his way of thinking. Don't know. Maybe he felt he was going above and beyond, don't know.

No talks with the police for FOUR months? (Although they were on CNN a week after JonBenet's death)

That's not going above and beyond.


As far as Linda Arndt and her gut feelings, it is obvious that she came to the Ramseys without suspicion of either John or Patsy. I have no idea why her opinion of John changed when he brought the body up.

But Arndt wasn't the only person at that house on the 26th to change her mind (for the worse) about John or Patsy.

 

[Betsy]

She had no concerns about John before he found the body,but within just moments after finding the body, and in her own words, stated she suddenly had a thousand points of light go off in her head,and at that very moment decided,without a doubt in her mind,that John was the killer of JonBenet.

The thing is, the entire case changed in a split second. Det. Arndt was there in response to a child's kidnapping. When she got to the house, I'm sure it seemed legit to her--there was probably no reason for her to feel that it was anything other than a kidnapping. The child has been taken away and the parents are devastated and looking to her to know what to do. I'm sure there is some "by the book" way to handle a kidnapping. You examine the ransom note, you wait for the inevitable call from the kidnappers, you negotiate a safe return of the child. The child's safety is of the utmost importance, and I'm sure she probably thought it was great that friends and the minister were there to comfort the parents.

BUT, once JonBenet's body was brought upstairs, the entire situation changed. First, you're looking at a dead 6 year old on the floor, which is horrible enough. Then you realize, oh my god, she's been in this house the ENTIRE time!!! We've been waiting for a call that was never going to come. This is no longer a kidnapping, it's a murder investigation.

And yes, I would think at that moment in time, plenty of bells and whistles were going off in her head and she most likely looked at everyone at that point as suspect. Nothing was as it seemed to be. Who can you trust? No one.

I don't think it's a stretch to think that her distrust of the Ramsey's started at that moment. What she did with that from then on, I have no idea, but in my opinion, she had the correct "gut" feeling.

 

[JBean]

No talks with the police for FOUR months? (Although they were on CNN a week after JonBenet's death)

That's not going above and beyond.


As far as Linda Arndt and her gut feelings, it is obvious that she came to the Ramseys without suspicion of either John or Patsy. I have no idea why her opinion of John changed when he brought the body up.

But Arndt wasn't the only person at that house on the 26th to change her mind (for the worse) about John or Patsy.

Well, what I said was, in his opinion he may have gone above and beyond by providing anything when he was not required by law to do so. I am not suggesting this is right wrong, onyl that perhaps to his mind he was doing it right.

As far as "gut" feelings are concerned, it has been posted over and over that many here don't lend any credence to people's "gut feelings" when it comes to any IDI theory. Rather, they want the facts and the evidence only. So I suppose that would have to work both ways.