Los Angeles City Council Bans N-Word

[Nova]

I am totally seeing what you are saying and in that way no I wouldnt want it banned but I think they are trying to stop all the hate that comes with the word. I really cant put into words what I am trying to say (you know I suck at that..LOL) While yes that word can be used in good, I never hear it as good. I only hear it used as a hate word. Maybe it depends on where you live? Maybe if it was used as the meaning of the word really means, then no. But I would guess that most of the time it isnt used in that context.

Sorry all to disagree, I really do respect most of your opinions here. I myself just dont think that word has a place in our world anymore. But I guess the best thing to say is I just agree to disagree

Indy, the only thing you write that I don't understand is your insistence that you don't write clearly. And I think most of us agree with you in your evaluation of how the N-word is used.

Some of us believe that the government banning words is a very slippery slope and that a free "marketplace" of words is the better way to combat dangerous speech.

 

[csds703]

Good find. Will there be an exception for enterprise Haunted Houses? What about movies or other forms of art that show this? Will we burn all the books with pictures of men hanging in them? Will Pirates of the Carribeann Part III be banned from theatres and the directors charged with a felony the in the wake of this bill (law?!)? Is wearing a cross around your neck next in line for banning - we all know that's today's equivalent of wearing an electric chair around your neck?

I would rather us put our considerable mental, emotional, spiritual and legal resources towards real change in the arena of racisim - we can do so much better than hollow bills and banning of words.

Censorship never really works anyway. It just brings more attention to things that are distasteful.
That being said, if somebody hung a noose on my front lawn, I would consider that a threat and would want the person to be prosecuted. I would consider that an agressive act and harassment.

 

[southcitymom]

Indy_Gal,

I hardly think of you as someone who does not know how to say what she feels! Thank you for the links to that interesting reading. Again, I respect your stance and your ability to verbalize it.

As a middleaged suburban white woman, perhaps my opinion on this doesn't matter much, but I will say that I respect that the younger African Americans have taken the word back for themselves. I believe that stance, if continued, will help to redefine this word which, truth be told, bannings or not, is never ever going to just go away. JMHO.

If I were a young black male, I would use the N word with friends. (We've seen similar things happen with women and the B word and the C word).

Now, that being said, the only time I am ever comfortable saying the N word is if I am singing along to a song that uses it. When I hear other white people use the N word pejoratively (and hey, I live in the South, so that happens), I am immediately repulsed by it. But when I hear young black people use it, I am not.

 

[southcitymom]

Censorship never really works anyway. It just brings more attention to things that are distasteful.
That being said, if somebody hung a noose on my front lawn, I would consider that a threat and would want the person to be prosecuted. I would consider that an agressive act and harassment.

I agree if someone hangs a noose on your lawn (particularly if you are black), that's threatening and harrassing.

 

[Indy Gal]

Okay so I do agree that banning words is wrong, i really do! Maybe they could rewrite it that when used in a bad way it could be some type of crime? My african american friends laugh at me as when I hear that word in songs I dont sing along with the word. I dont know i just really hate that word. But at the same time they dont use it either, Like whats up N***** or in any other context. Maybe I just have the hate drilled into me from a very young age and just hate it, I dont know. But I do want ya'll to know you have brought me around today as to why a word shouldnt be banned. Thanks for bring me back to reality, you guys always do and I love this place for that.

So is there a way where it could be a crime to use it in a bad way, and not ban it all together?

ETA Okay dont jump on me I am trying to make some laugh, but can I use your agruements for this in my pit bull threads? LOL

 

[Nova]

Indy_Gal,

I hardly think of you as someone who does not know how to say what she feels! Thank you for the links to that interesting reading. Again, I respect your stance and your ability to verbalize it.

As a middleaged suburban white woman, perhaps my opinion on this doesn't matter much, but I will say that I respect that the younger African Americans have taken the word back for themselves. I believe that stance, if continued, will help to redefine this word which, truth be told, bannings or not, is never ever going to just go away. JMHO.

If I were a young black male, I would use the N word with friends. (We've seen similar things happen with women and the B word and the C word).

Now, that being said, the only time I am ever comfortable saying the N word is if I am singing along to a song that uses it. When I hear other white people use the N word pejoratively (and hey, I live in the South, so that happens), I am immediately repulsed by it. But when I hear young black people use it, I am not.

It's not something to brag about, but, yes, I've used the word "*advertiser censored*" in private conversations with other gay men.

And, yes, it is different.

 

[Pepper]

Not to pick on you, Indy - I respect your opinion although mine is different. But, there is excellent art (music, plays, short stories, poems) out there that uses the N word to great effect and goodness.

There's even a fascinating book called "N*****" which discusses the history of the word.

I agree with Nova that this word has been used to cause great harm in society, but so has the word "God" and I'm not for banning that one either.

If we ban the N word, I guess we would also have to ban works by Mark Twain.

I'm against a double standard.

 

[Indy Gal]

If we ban the N word, I guess we would also have to ban works by Mark Twain.

I'm against a double standard.

Totally off topic but your cat is so cute!!

 

[southcitymom]

It's not something to brag about, but, yes, I've used the word "*advertiser censored*" in private conversations with other gay men.

And, yes, it is different.

I've used B and C in private conversations with close female friends. Yes, it is different.

 

[Seven]

Indy_Gal,

I hardly think of you as someone who does not know how to say what she feels! Thank you for the links to that interesting reading. Again, I respect your stance and your ability to verbalize it.

As a middleaged suburban white woman, perhaps my opinion on this doesn't matter much, but I will say that I respect that the younger African Americans have taken the word back for themselves. I believe that stance, if continued, will help to redefine this word which, truth be told, bannings or not, is never ever going to just go away. JMHO.

If I were a young black male, I would use the N word with friends. (We've seen similar things happen with women and the B word and the C word).

Now, that being said, the only time I am ever comfortable saying the N word is if I am singing along to a song that uses it. When I hear other white people use the N word pejoratively (and hey, I live in the South, so that happens), I am immediately repulsed by it. But when I hear young black people use it, I am not.

I'm glad you articulated this, SCM, because I have heard similar expressed by others.

I'm one of those people who, like IndyGal, cringe at the use of the n-word by anyone and purposely avoid all forms of entertainment that use it as offensive. My first impression of anyone who uses the n-word is that that person, regardless of his/her skin color, is a racist.

The c-word also offends me, so I'd never socialize with anyone of either sex who uses it, and all forms of entertainment that use it are offensive to me, and I avoid them. My first impression of anyone who uses the c-word is that that person, regardless of his/her sex, is a misogynist. (just my first impression, SCM )

But here's my point/dilemma: "Hypocrisy = Do as I say, Not as I do."

Bottom line:
For any word you can think of, no person who uses the word him/herself has the slightest/remotest credibility/right/standing to condemn any other person who uses the same word.

Anyone who condemns another for doing the exact same thing they do is, quite simply, a hypocrite.

 

[Nova]

...Bottom line:
For any word you can think of, no person who uses the word him/herself has the slightest/remotest credibility/right/standing to condemn any other person who uses the same word.

Anyone who condemns another for doing the exact same thing they do is, quite simply, a hypocrite.

With all due respect, that's just simplistic and silly.

In large part, words take their meaning from context.

The word "f*ck" is very different if I yell it when stubbing my toe and if I yell "f*ck you!" at another person. It's different still when used as a verb to describe a sex act.

The word "God" is quite different when followed by "bless" or "damn."

The "n-word" is different when screamed by a group of frat brothers at passing black co-eds (true case) and when used in private by African-Americans. Its use in rap music is yet another context.

The word "" from a straight person to a gay person is a term of hatred. And it can be the same among gay people in private. But used from one gay person to another, it can be a term of respect, meaning "you are brave enough to be who you are, despite what the world may think."

And have you ever heard of irony? It means using a word to indicate the opposite of its usual meaning. "Fine" can mean good or bad depending on the context and tone of voice.

I could go on and on, but surely you know this already.

 

[southcitymom]

I'm glad you articulated this, SCM, because I have heard similar expressed by others.

I'm one of those people who, like IndyGal, cringe at the use of the n-word by anyone and purposely find all forms of entertainment that use it offensive. My first impression of anyone who uses the n-word is that that person, regardless of his/her skin color, is a racist.

The c-word also offends me, so I'd never socialize with anyone of either sex who uses it, and all forms of entertainment that use it are offensive to me, and I avoid them. My first impression of anyone who uses the c-word is that that person, regardless of his/her sex, is a misogynist.

But here's my point/dilemma: "Hypocrisy = Do as I say, Not as I do."

Bottom line:
For any word you can think of, no person who uses the word him/herself has the slightest/remotest credibility/right/standing to condemn any other person who uses the same word.

Anyone who condemns another for doing the exact same thing they do is, quite simply, a hypocrite.

It is an interesting debate and I really appreciate your perspective. I guess I would disagree with your bottom line, though - unless I am misreading it.

For example, if I hear a black man say to his friend, "What's up, my N?" and shake his hand I have a very different reaction than when I hear my redneck coworker say, "God, this city has been totally taken over by N."

When the black man says it, I think "Good for you!" and when the redneck says it, I think "You rube - what century are your living in and why do I have to work next to you?!"

Likewise, if a man called me C in anger, I would be offended. Just being honest - fair or not, I would think: MISOGYNIST! And yet, the other day, my sister hurt my feelings terribly and I called my best friend and said, "My sister is such a C." Same word (and it's actually not a word that offends me, per se, though I save it for special occasions because it's a strong one). Now, I'm not a misogynist and it feels different for me to say that word in anger in private to another woman than for a man to say it in anger to me. JMHO.

Maybe I'm just justifying my bad behavior, but I do experience different words differently depending on circumstance and context. I would go so far as to say I think all of us do.

 

[Nova]

Let me just add that the fact that words change meaning depending on context is yet one more reason why banning a particular word is stupid. (Not to mention unenforceable.)

 

[southcitymom]

Let me just add that the fact that words change meaning depending on context is yet one more reason why banning a particular word is stupid. (Not to mention unenforceable.)

Exactly, Nova. Again, the whole "banning" thing is meaningless - let's find real ways to change our minds about racism and acknowledge its effects.

 

[Seven]

With all due respect, that's just simplistic and silly.

ad-hominem

In large part, words take their meaning from context.

(miriam-webster) hypocrite:
1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

Constitutional: Equal protection under the law.

Equal means equal, not separate but equal.

 

[deanws]

Let me just add that the fact that words change meaning depending on context is yet one more reason why banning a particular word is stupid. (Not to mention unenforceable.)

OMGosh...i agree with Nova for once!

 

[southcitymom]

ad-hominem

Not from where I'm sitting.

An ad hominem argument only attacks the person making the argument and does not go on to address the substance of the argument. Nova addressed the substance of your argument very well by putting forth a number of examples where the same word may have different meanings.

Additionally, Nova never called you simplistic and silly. In fact, he asked for respect for you before calling your position simplistic and silly.

ETA: I still don't understand the hypocrit argument - even with the definition right there in front of me!

 

[southcitymom]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

OMGosh...i agree with Nova for once!

Don't let it become a habit, deandaniellws!!

 

[Seven]

Let me just add that the fact that words change meaning depending on context is yet one more reason why banning a particular word is stupid. (Not to mention unenforceable.)

I suppose that's why they called it "symbolic."

It would be unconstitutional if they tried to enforce it.

A lot of people find the J-word offensive and blasphemous and dont hang out with people who use it, but would movies and books that use it be banned if the city council banned it?

 

[Nova]

ad-hominem....

Seven, I said that argument was simplistic. I didn't say you, or even your other remarks.

As for the rest of the post in which you define hypocrisy, constitutional, etc., however, you're stringing together a number of concepts and using the most superficial definition of each. Understanding that words change meaning according to context has nothing to do with the constitutional concept of "separate-but-equal."