MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #3

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ch_13 said:
This butt-dial thing is so dumb.

Butt-dials are from back when phones had actual buttons. If you had one in your back pocket and didn't physically lock your phone you could inadvertently press a button and call someone on your favorites list.

I'm not saying you can't inadvertently call someone with an iPhone, but it's much harder. I can't recall the last time I did that. Maybe two or three years ago when Siri heard something I said and interpreted it as a call request.

The idea that the men almost simultaneously butt-dialed each other while using iPhones is just hard to believe.


(What is common with iPhones is tapping on the wrong person on your contacts. But it doesn't sound like that's what happened here. It sounds like the phone was locked and he somehow called Brian Higgins.)
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Maybe he accidentally yelled out Brian’s name while he was “being intimate”?
 
DeDee said:
If the Defense wants to say the Albert's are good for John's death, then why does Karen confess? Many of Karen's confessions heard were then testified to it in court. She panicked.

How did she know precisely where John's body was under the snow by the flagpole when her two companions were blind to it without her knowing where he landed? She and John were at the curb of 34 Fairview for about 5 minutes. Arguing is the most likely reason. She pulled her vehicle down closer to the flagpole area. Maybe that's when he exited the SUV.

It's possible John thought she was going to come inside, but instead she zoomed forward, then sped in reverse that knocked him into the air and his head hit the concrete birdbath or whatnot in order to gash the back of his skull.

A document claims she called John and left a voicemail just following the hit and run. She hit him because she hated him.
Karen screamed at John that she hated him. @ 2:48

View attachment 503444
moo
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Seems like a poor strategy to kill someone then immediately leave a voicemail - which will surely be found on their phone - telling them how much you hate them, no? Wouldn’t it make more sense if she was trying to cover this up to go, “Have fun sweetie, see you tomorrow, love you…” Leaving an angry voicemail makes her look bad in that situation, which ironically makes her look more innocent, imo.
 
Ray_of_hope said:
Just something I wondered about last night. Is it possible between all of the comings and goings at the Albert house, that someone leaving or coming hit JO? People seemed to be drinking continuously that evening and even at the Albert home. I doubt any other cars were checked or tested for DNA besides Karen's (if the prosecution has ruled out any other incident). But to me, there is something hinky about one of the women who has inserted herself into this mess. MOO and just a random wondering.
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4-5 a.m. – At 4:23 a.m. while heavy snow was falling, O'Keefe's niece called Jennifer McCabe, Brian Albert's sister-in-law and a friend of O'Keefe's. She said Read was "distraught" because O'Keefe had not come home and was not answering his cellphone. According to court documents, McCabe said she heard Read screaming "John didn't come home. We had a fight." Around 5 a.m. Read called another woman whose husband was friends with O'Keefe. Prosecutors alleged that Read said while they searched "What if he's dead? What if a plow hit him? … I don't remember anything from last night, we drank so much I don't remember anything."
A timeline of the Karen Read case and the story behind the high-profile Massachusetts murder trial
 
HanniBJeter said:
BA lied on the stand almost immediately this morning. He said he didn’t speak to Lally. Then said oh yeah, he did, but misunderstood Jackson’s question. Uh huh. And I couldn’t stand how BA addressed the jury directly…yuck. He gives me the creeps.
And why did the judge continue to allow Caitlin to answer every question with “I don’t know, I think” or “I’m not sure, I believe”…she seemed to be guessing at every answer, nothing definitive.
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BA always wants to be in control. He got really fidgety when he did not like being questioned by the defense.
He greeted the jury as if he were still in uniform and still wanted to portray an authoritarian figure.
 
DeDee said:
A document claims she called John and left a voicemail just following the hit and run. She hit him because she hated him.
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RSBM
KR said "I hate you"?
I don't know how many times I have said that phrase myself... and yet my mom still lives.
Just saw her yesterday.

IMO I don't think telling someone you hate them is a direct correlation to murder.

edit: It was a voicemail, not a text
 
acutename said:
they are saying the dog was not out... but with all the door openings and closings, how do they know?
suppose the dog jumped on JO... he has been drinking... he wrestles with it and falls...I do not even know why they think they know every car that was on the street that night... IMO.
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yes, imo that's at the very least not implausible given what I've read and heard (of the trial). Also I don't find Brian senior a very credible witness. jmo
 
ch_13 said:
PSBMFF I thought the Albert kids today were mostly truthful. Caitlin came across as pretty likable. Very different, personality wise, from his dad. Whatever happened that night it's hard to believe these two were involved.
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I agree. His anxiety stems from the trauma of it all. It was Jr's bday. Not many waken on their birthday to a dead body in their yard and the family is being blamed.
ch_13 said:
she definitely had an answer prepped for how she knew Katie McLaughlin.
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Yes, she was ready. The last baby shower that I attended there were many, mostly young, new faces. I could have posed next to a beautiful future killer but it wouldn't mean I was friends with them at the baby shower.
ch_13 said:
Compared to his kids though, Brian Sr. came across as not so honest.
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There was a purpose for upgrading the phone. Possible that something was on there that he didn't want cellubrite to reveal. It might not even have anything to do with the Read case. But, wait until the jury learns that Higgins also upgraded his phone. Seems too coincidental but I'll wait to hear H's testimony.
ch_13 said:
Also, Michael Proctor's fingerprints are all over this case. First, neither of the kids were interviewed by Proctor until after the federal grand jury. And then Brian Sr. was allowed to be over at his sister-in-law's house when she was being questioned. Just more examples of how the police investigation was thoroughly compromised.
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BA stated he thought of Jen as a sister since he'd known her since she was 6yo. He would be of comforting support in an emotional sense but no way did he verbally interfere with coaching her answers or direct questions bc that'd be obstruction.
 
Ray_of_hope said:
Just something I wondered about last night. Is it possible between all of the comings and goings at the Albert house, that someone leaving or coming hit JO? People seemed to be drinking continuously that evening and even at the Albert home. I doubt any other cars were checked or tested for DNA besides Karen's (if the prosecution has ruled out any other incident). But to me, there is something hinky about one of the women who has inserted herself into this mess. MOO and just a random wondering.
Click to expand...

That's certainly something I've wondered for a while. What evidence is there really to say KR was the driver that hit him? For some people the eyewitness (earwitness?) testimony of the firefighters is sufficient, despite all the many issues that call it into question. Setting that aside, the strongest piece of physical evidence are those taillight shards at the scene. But when we get into that evidence I believe we'll find there's reason to think they may have been planted.

If not KR, could another person have hit JO? Maybe someone from the party or even just some unknown person driving down that street?

To me, the biggest argument against this hypothesis are still John O'Keefe's wounds. To me they just don't look like something caused by a collision with a car, regardless of who the driver was. My mind could be changed on this depending on the expert testimony, but I want an explanation of what those marks are on his arm and why there are no injuries to his torso and midsection.
 
housewife said:
RSBM
KR said "I hate you"?
I don't know how many times I have said that phrase myself... and yet my mom still lives.
Just saw her yesterday.

IMO I don't think telling someone you hate them is a direct correlation to murder.

edit: It was a voicemail, not a text
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I believe that voicemail was because he wasn't responding to her and she is very insecure.
 
ch_13 said:
That's certainly something I've wondered for a while. What evidence is there really to say KR was the driver that hit him? For some people the eyewitness (earwitness?) testimony of the firefighters is sufficient, despite all the many issues that call it into question. Setting that aside, the strongest piece of physical evidence are those taillight shards at the scene. But when we get into that evidence I believe we'll find there's reason to think they may have been planted.

If not KR, could another person have hit JO? Maybe someone from the party or even just some unknown person driving down that street?

To me, the biggest argument against this hypothesis are still John O'Keefe's wounds. To me they just don't look like something caused by a collision with a car, regardless of who the driver was. My mind could be changed on this depending on the expert testimony, but I want an explanation of what those marks are on his arm and why there are no injuries to his torso and midsection.
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I totally agree with your assessment of JO's wounds. And striking the back of his head is so odd. He had to be bent down and facing away from the vehicle much like the animation we've seen. So picking something up or falling... I don't see it either. KR and JO overshot the road that BA lived on and I wonder if that's where she backed up a good distance (when she was turning or backing down a road to resume the route to BA's home).
 
Ray_of_hope said:
Just something I wondered about last night. Is it possible between all of the comings and goings at the Albert house, that someone leaving or coming hit JO? People seemed to be drinking continuously that evening and even at the Albert home. I doubt any other cars were checked or tested for DNA besides Karen's (if the prosecution has ruled out any other incident). But to me, there is something hinky about one of the women who has inserted herself into this mess. MOO and just a random wondering.
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All JMO. No one witnessed JO getting out of KR's car or entering BA's house. In fact, there is no evidence of JO being alive and near BA's house.

Let us ask ourselves, what is the last proof of JO being alive? At the Warerfall? Then, who was the last person to see him alive? Are there any witnesses/video of JO getting into KR's car? Who was the last person to talk with JO on the phone? When did the last text come from him?

I was always surprised by that glass he took from the Waterfall. Well, maybe he did. Maybe he was standing with this glass next to KR's car. Did he get into it, and was it checked/evidenced?

Because he did not respond to JMc's texts while in the car...

Think of this: all that Karen Reed's defense needs to prove is that her backing up making a 3-point turn at the speed of 24 mph at BA's house is not consistent with the injuries JO received.

Because this is what she accused of. Canton PD, whether prompted by her questions, did I hit him?, or spontaneously, accused KR of causing JO's death at BA's house in precisely this manner. So what needs to be proven is that his death did not happen in this manner.

Only no one saw alive JO at BA's house. His body, yes. But that's all.

Which brings up quite a plausible, question when and where was he hurt? No one saw JO entering BA's house on that fateful night nor saw him getting out of KR's car there.

Somewhere I heard/read that KR initially said to JMc she last saw JO in the Waterfall. It sounded suspicious: i explained it by her blackout. But are there any witnesses who saw KR driving with JO in the car from Fairview? Who was the last person to talk to him on the phone? MOO - that last conversation is probably very close to the time JO was attacked.

I am wondering if everything happened on the way from the Warerfall to the Fairview? And basically, if JO was badly hurt in the car?

There is a couple of facts I don't understand. JMc was texting JO but getting no answers. The big black car (Lexus?) was parked on the other side of the street. The witnesses who drove behind them probably felt KR drove slowly; they overtook KR parked ahead and then decided to drive home. The witnesses saw KR sitting in the car (what was she doing?). No KR's car seen on camera on the way to JO's house remember how they were looking at that camera, that recording, to see the taillight? They said that recording disappeared. What if KR did not take that road?

Then KR hitting JO's car at home and breaking the taillight of her car on camera - surely the same camera should have registered broken/unbroken taillight several hours earlier, when KR was pulling into the garage? But it didn't...or was it erased?

I wonder if whatever happened to JO happened on the way from Waterfall to Fairview. Or near Waterfall. He had little blood next to BA's house - what if he exsanguinated earlier?

How did he end up being dumped at BA house I don't know - JO was a huge guy, after all. Maybe someone helped her, or perhaps JO was driven by someone else?

What I can see, with that butt-dialing, oversharing his nightly activities, is that BA is not a wise man. Which is surprising - beat cops were local and often, corrupt, but they were wordly. But I think BA and his buddy didn't attack JO. For one, your kid's b-day is not the day to murder a colleague. But mostly, because BA is playing against a much smarter person, KR.
 
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jepop said:
The wounds are definately a sticking point for me. Looking forward to expert testimony about them. Moo
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Absolutely. I think it's usual in any homicide trial to have to wait until later in the prosecution case for post-mortem/autopsy evidence, which is a bit frustrating in this case because (IMO) proving beyond a reasonable doubt that JO'K died as a result of contact with a car (let alone Karen Read's car specifically) and not by any other possible means is the first hurdle they have to clear on the route to a guilty verdict.

If they can't get past that hurdle then nearly everything we've heard in court up to this point is irrelevant.
 
ch_13 said:
To me, the biggest argument against this hypothesis are still John O'Keefe's wounds. To me they just don't look like something caused by a collision with a car, regardless of who the driver was. My mind could be changed on this depending on the expert testimony, but I want an explanation of what those marks are on his arm and why there are no injuries to his torso and midsection.
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rsbm

How do you know there were no injuries to his torso and midsection? I vaguely remember reading this somewhere, but dont recall if it was a Boston news source or what. The autopsy has not been released. TIA :)
 
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