MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #3

[KSwizzle]

Listen, I have absolutely zero problems believing KR hit and killed him with her car, maliciously or not, this is completely believable. What I don’t understand in these scenarios are the lies by everyone else or the conflicting testimony by outsiders as in, the texts saying tell them he wasn’t in the house (if he wasn’t in the house why even have to text the group), the doctored text messages, only one person seeing a body (maybe, she said a black blob), JMc claiming she searched on google after 4am when the FBI claims it was shortly after 2am which completely changes JMc’s testimony, CM lying about his knuckles, the issues with the tail light, no one knowing anything about the dog that night then they get rid of the dog, the snow plow driver claiming he didn’t see any body, the injuries on JO that are clearly not caused by a car.

Overall the flippant attitudes by everyone involved makes no sense in the context of KR just hitting and killing JO, there’s no point acting like this, only scenarios I could see to act like this with them all being innocent is, they’re trying to cover up that they were all driving drunk (let’s be honest they probably did/do that all the time unfortunately), they think they run the town with their clout and are annoyed even having to be involved in the trial, or maybe they’re all just jerks

All just my opinions and speculation, this trial has been bizarre and I’m sure it’ll get more bizarre as it goes on

 

[keek]

Some things I wonder about from the CW’s memorandum below. The ME states that JO’s skull fractures was a result from an original strike and fracture the back of the head. Does that mean that the CW believe that KR hit JO with her car while his back was turned. How would that explain him being found face-up in the snow though? Wouldn’t he have been more likely to landed face down if struck from behind?

It is also note his shirt and pants were wet from blood and vomit. I wonder why though since the ME stated that JO’s injuries would have unfortunately led him to become incapacitated? If he was laying face up and unable to move his horizontal position wouldn’t the blood and vomit have been more likely to pool into the back of his mouth, his esophagus and lungs? EMTs and KR noted that JO had blood around his mouth and nose but to soak his shirt and pants to make them wet wouldn’t he have been more likely in a vertical position or standing/croaching so that the blood would be more likely to bleed out his nose and thus soak his clothes and to explain how vomit, which is a common choking and asphyxiation hazard for those who are both under the influence and sleeping on their backs, was found on his shirt when, without help, it would have more likely been trapped in his throat or oral cavity?

Also, the prosecution argue that accident reconstruction show that KR drove 60 feet at 20 mph to hit and kill JO with her car. However, iirc a few of the witnesses state they did not see or recall KR’s reverse or hit anyone. Also also as much attention KR’s SUV seemed to get that night, driving 60 feet in reverse IMO would have been noticed by the witnesses, some of who were already confused by her driving choices and parking choices that night. I wonder how the prosecution can explain that oddity?

https://www.scribd.com/document/642121594/Commonwealth-vs-Read-Opposition

MA v. Karen Read: Killer or Cover-Up Murder Trial

UPDATE: The trial of Karen Read, accused in the death of her police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe, is underway in Massachusetts.

www.courttv.com

I didn't hear JMc say that 'they' turned or flipped JO over in her testimony, just that he was just laying there and the other woman was brushing the snow off his face and K was brushing the snow off his clothes plus pushing his shirt up along with hers to give him warmth. It seemed a vague answer, not how his arms were placed or that he was on his front.

 

[jepop]

I thought this happened at the scene where they found JO>>

Idk., but according' to JMc's testimony yesterday it happenned (didn't happen) at JO's house roughly as I described; Not sure of time stamp but Day 14 yesterday, testimony just before Lally shows the ring camera footage of the three women arriving to search for JO at his place in early am around five or something like that.

 

[ch_13]

You know what we didn't hear yesterday? Jen McCabe's 911 call. This seemed like the perfect opportunity to play it. I wonder why the prosecution didn't.

I've heard the version that's floating around social media but I'd like to hear the official one.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

I have the same questions, but I can tell you that he was face down. In the 911 call we hear Jen say “they just turned him over” to dispatch.

One possibility is that he was able to move into a sitting position after the head injury, but then vomited or possibly had a seizure and vomited on himself before ending up face down.

Thanks for telling me about the 911 call! I didn’t know that it was available to listen to before.

Sorry if this has already been said but I am surprised that JM, who testified how much she cared for JO and promised his niece she would find him, would just refer to him as a man instead of my friend or something more familiar when talking to the 911 operator. Similar to her husband who referred to JO as the guy in a text, JM seemed distancing language during that call too.

Also, she tells that 911 operator that she thinks he is dead even though it has been under a minute since they found him and started CPR. I wonder what gave her the impression so quickly that he was already deceased? I wonder this especially considering she was in the car when she made this statement so wasn’t able to check his pulse, listen for breath sounds or chest rise and fall beforehand.

I wonder too why she thought JO was laying there for at least an hour when most of the other party guests left around 2 AM, 4 hours prior to the call. She states to the operator that JO got out of the car but doesn’t know what happened to him afterwards. This contradicts her testimony that she never saw JO get out of the car and makes me question testimony that JO didn’t go inside the house when JM seems to think he was hurt in front of it only around a hour before the call.

Where did this hour come from and why did it seem, IMO, that JM was trying to imply that she saw JO leave the car but she doesn’t know what happened to him afterwards?

I feel like too when KR is experiencing full blown panic and Kerry tells her it is not helping that maybe would have been the perfect time for JM to run inside and get BA, a first responder, to help as they waited for the ambulance. The extra set of hands would not have only been helpful but also possibly they needed since KR was understandably panicking and maybe needed to step away for a while. He also could have brought blankets.

JMO and I understand not everyone reacts the same to emergencies and it is quiet possible that a lot of my questions could be explained by shock or dissociation in the face of such trauma and possible loss of a friend

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

I didn't hear JMc say that 'they' turned or flipped JO over in her testimony, just that he was just laying there and the other woman was brushing the snow off his face and K was brushing the snow off his clothes plus pushing his shirt up along with hers to give him warmth. It seemed a vague answer, not how his arms were placed or that he was on his front.

Sorry I think you might be replying to someone else. In my original comment I had wrote that he was found lying on his back in the snow by KR, Kerry and JM, according to the CW memorandum. The memorandum cites JM as the witness who stated the position he was found in.

However, fortunately @TristanP informed me that there is 911 audio available in which JM is heard telling the 911 operator that they flipped JO over after finding him.

 

[themonk]

I would like to think my response would have been to find the first responder closest to the scene at 34 Fairview which would have been *checks notes* 34 Fairview, the home of a police officer.

Fishy as hell, all of it.

 

[keek]

Thanks for telling me about the 911 call! I didn’t know that it was available to listen to before.

Sorry if this has already been said but I am surprised that JM, who testified how much she cared for JO and promised his niece she would find him, would just refer to him as a man instead of my friend or something more familiar when talking to the 911 operator. Similar to her husband who referred to JO as the guy in a text, JM seemed distancing language during that call too.

Also, she tells that 911 operator that she thinks he is dead even though it has been under a minute since they found him and started CPR. I wonder what gave her the impression so quickly that he was already deceased? I wonder this especially considering she was in the car when she made this statement so wasn’t able to check his pulse, listen for breath sounds or chest rise and fall beforehand.

I wonder too why she thought JO was laying there for at least an hour when most of the other party guests left around 2 AM, 4 hours prior to the cal. She states to the operator that JO got out of the car but doesn’t know what happened to him afterwards. This contradicts her testimony that she never saw JO get out of the car and makes me question testimony that JO didn’t go inside the house when JM seems to think he was hurt in front of it only around a hour before the call.

Where did this hour come from and why did it seem, IMO, that JM was trying to imply that she saw JO leave the car but she doesn’t know what happened to him afterwards?

I feel like too when KR is experiencing full blown panic and Kerry tells her it is not helping that maybe would have been the perfect time for JM to run inside and get BA, a first responder, to help as they waited for the ambulance. The extra set of hands would not have only been helpful but also possibly they needed since KR was understandably panicking and maybe needed to step away for a while. He also could have brought blankets.

JMO and I understand not everyone reacts the same to emergencies and it is quiet possible that a lot of my questions could be explained by shock or dissociation in the face of such trauma and possible loss of a friend

She did say, at testimony, that the other woman had lifted JO up to place blankets under him. Want to hear the other woman's description of that time and hopefully position of JO when found. I know JMc had said we flipped him over per others hearing/reading her 911 call. I don't know why her immediate reaction after calling 911 was not to run and get Albert out there either. I think she thought she had it under immediate control. It does seem like odd thinking but.

 

[arielilane]

JMcC statement to MSP date April 6, 2022 - moo due to no link (nothing was noted about the google search)


While at 34 Fairview Rd, Jenn observed a large black SUV on the street outside of the and went to the front door.
The SUV did not pull into the driveway but parked on the street by the entrance of the driveway.

At 12:31 am, Jenn texted JOK, “Hello, Pull up behind me”

Jenn texted JOK again at 12:40 am, "Hello, where are you” and then again at 12:45 am, “Hello, where are you."

Jenn observed the SUV drive away and assumed KR and JOK went home.

Jenn confirmed that JOK did not respond to any of her text messages.

Jenn stated she first observed the vehicle parked on the street by the driveway facing in the direction toward Chapman St.
Jenn then observed the vehicle travel along the road toward the left side of the property in the area of where JOK was discovered in the morning.
Jenn and her husband left the residence at approximately 1:30 am and went home.


At approximately 4:53 am on 1/29/2022 Jenn received a call from JOK niece, KR was on the phone, hysterical and looking for JOK. KR told Jenn that she went home alone last night and last saw JOK at the Waterfall Bar. Jenn had to correct Karen, and told her they left the Waterfall together and went to 34 Fairview Rd.

Jenn told KR to come to her house and they would look for JOK together.

KR arrived at Jenn’s house in SUV. Jenn stated she drove KR vehicle back to JOK house where KR met them. While driving back to JOK house, KR stated to Jenn , “Could I have hit him.” “Did I hit him.”

KR also told Jenn about a broken tail light on her SUV. Once at JOK house all three looked at the broken tail light. Jenn stated she observed a broken/cracked tight tail light to KR SUV.


Jenn and KR got into Kerry’s vehicle (Jenn in front seat/KR in the back seat) to go look for JOK. They traveled to 34 Fairview Rd. The weather at this time snowing heavily, Jenn stated.

They traveled down Chapman Street and took a right turn onto Fairview Rd. Immediately passing the group of trees KR stated "I see him."

Jenn stated with the heavy snow her and Kerry could not see JOK, and did not know what KR was talking about. The three exited the vehicle.



Kerry began wiping snow off JOK.
Jenn call 911 and KR laid on top of JOK, and stated, “Oh my god did I hit him.”
JOK discovered on the left side of the property, the area where KR SUV was last seen earlier that night with approximately
six inches of snow covering him.
KR began CPR, when she discovered JOK blood on her face, stated, “Oh my god, do I have my period.”

Using cell phone app called Life360 Jenn provided the following:
5:39 KR arrived at the McC residence
5:46 Jenn KR and Kerry arrive at JOK house
5:53 the three leave JOK house
6:04 discovered JOK outside of 34 Fairview Rd.

 

[jepop]

RSBM for focus
RBBM for focus
KR also told Jenn about a broken tail light on her SUV. Once at JOK house all three looked at the broken tail light. Jenn stated she observed a broken/cracked tight tail light to KR SUV.

Jenn and KR got into Kerry’s vehicle (Jenn in front seat/KR in the back seat) to go look for JOK. They traveled to 34 Fairview Rd. The weather at this time snowing heavily, Jenn stated.

>snipped for focus

Using cell phone app called Life360 Jenn provided the following:
5:39 KR arrived at the McC residence
5:46 Jenn KR and Kerry arrive at JOK house
5:53 the three leave JOK house
6:04 discovered JOK outside of 34 Fairview Rd.

Right, so this is from April 2022 Statement and tail light testimony is consistent with trial Day 14 testimony: All three (KR, JMc and Kerry) looked at tail light at JOK's house after 4.53am. However both statement and testimony re tail light observation are contradicted by ring camera vid from JOK's house Lally played in full yesterday. Jmo

JMc's testimony yesterday went to elaborate that after observing tail light, they went inside JOK's house through RHS garage door to look for JOK. JMc spoke with JOK's neice whilst there. After this all three went in Kerry's car to 34 Fairvie as per statement. Moo

 

[keek]

Right, so this is from April 2022 Statement and tail light testimony is consistent with trial Day 14 testimony: All three (KR, JMc and Kerry) looked at tail light at JOK's house after 4.53am. However both statement and testimony re tail light observation are contradicted by ring camera vid from JOK's house Lally played in full yesterday. Jmo

JMc's testimony yesterday went to elaborate that after observing tail light, they went inside JOK's house through RHS garage door to look for JOK. JMc spoke with JOK's neice whilst there. After this all three went in Kerry's car to 34 Fairvie as per statement. Moo

Kerry, said to KR, that could of happened anywhere, while trying to keep Karen calmed down. I saw the vid of the women rushing into JO's home, but we didn't see the total ourselves.

 

[Telltale]

My main conclusion about this case is that 90% of the weird can be explained by everyone being blitzed out of their mind.

KR probably has a patchy as fukk memory of that night, but the only logical explanation is she hit him. Maybe he'd fallen or bent over, but she felt that bump. Perhaps she considered it, but couldn't see anything, was basically blackout anyway and it's was cold as helll out there so she didn't get out and check. Just dismissed it and went home to pass out. Or maybe she was mad and made a snap decision to leave him to his mates. Or maybe she meant to hit him. Maybe she herself doesn't really know. I think she had an inkling in the morning though. Everything she did once she realised he wasn't home sounds like someone putting a blackout night together bit by bit and the panic and denial of someone with a dawning realisation of what might have happened.

JOK was also completely plastered, it might not have taken much force at all to put him out, when combined with the weather and the alcohol. Those weird scrapes could just have easily come from other drunken bangs and scrapes earlier in the night, or perhaps trying to get himself up. The cold, ice, head injury and blood alcohol could have put him under or rendered him helpless very quickly even if it wasn't immediately lethal. Then he's just about snow dusted lump on a dark night where nobody is lifting their head up if they can help it.

As for the party cops weird behaviour - They're cops, I don't think they killed him. I think they acted shady because they were up to shiit that night that could get them very publicly fired. Drunk driving, coke, weed, something unrelated, but very important for them to hide. Probably didn't come outside to the police line because it was blatantly obvious to any beat cop what they were recovering from. Or they were too busy bricking it about s murder case-level forensic sweep of their house when they had some naughty shiit stashed inside, and may they did pull in a favour to skip that step.

Also, if they were leaving and driving while off-their-nut it would explain how they didn't see a thing as they left. A snow dusted dark lump off to the side wouldnt get a glance when you're bolting to from a warm house to a car in a blizzard.

The phone says stuff sounds very very technical and dependant on settings. Components, save file cashes etc. Seems more wobbly than it appears.

Maybe I am missing a good theory but every one I've heard arguing she has was set up required prodigious around of co-conspirators agencies and has to really reach for any explanation or even animosity or motivation.

I do think that the cops probably half - assed the investigation though, which is wild. Not for the freemasons or something, but because they thought it was straightforward and had no clue such an insane fanbase would be along too.

 

[keek]

My main conclusion about this case is that 90% of the weird can be explained by everyone being blitzed out of their mind.

KR probably has a patchy AF memory of that night, but the only logical explanation is she hit him. Maybe he'd fallen or bent over, but she felt that bump. Perhaps she considered it, but couldn't see anything, was basically blackout anyway and it's was cold af out there so she didn't get out and check, dismissed it, went home and passed out. Or maybe she was mad and made a snap decision to leave him to his mates. Or maybe she meant to. Maybe she herself doesn't really know. I think she had an inkling in the morning though. Everything she did once she realised he wasn't home sounds like someone putting a blackout night together bit by bit and the panic and denial of someone with a dawning realisation of what might have happened.

JOK was also completely plastered, it might not have taken much force at all to put him out, when combined with the weather and the alcohol.mm Those weird scrapes could just have easily come from other drunken bangs and scrapes earlier in the night, or perhaps trying to get himself up. The cold, ice, head injury and blood alcohol could have put him under very quickly even if it wasn't immediately lethal. Then he's just about snow dusted lump on a dark night where nobody is lifting their head up if they can help it.

As for the party cops weird behaviour - They're cops, I don't think they killed him. I think they acted shady because they were up to *advertiser censored* that night that could get them fired. Drunk driving, coke, weed, something unrelated, but very important for them to hide. Probably didn't come outside to the police line because it was blatantly obvious to any beat cop what they were recovering from. Perhaps they were too busy bricking it about s murder case-level forensic sweep of their house when they had some naughty *advertiser censored* stashed inside, and may they did pull in a favour to skip that step.

Also, if they were leaving and driving while off their nut it would explain how they didn't see a thing as they left. A snow dusted dark lump off to the side would probably get a glance when you're bolting to from a warm house to a car in a blizzard.

The phone says stuff sounds very very technical and depend if on certain factors.

Any theory that isn't the very very benal drunken DV with tragic consequences requires god level conspiracies. Absolutely insane the amount of fans of this woman there are out there.

Refreshing and also sensible.

 

[themonk]

If it were clear-cut KR struck JOK with her car wouldn't the FBI-hired experts have come to the same conclusion?

 

[keek]

If it were clear-cut KR struck JOK with her car wouldn't the FBI-hired experts have come to the same conclusion?

I'd want the FBI expert to know what shape or some idea of what did cause JO's head wound. I'm sure of course that is all analyzed and known or possibilities, also anything found in his wound has been identified. Maybe that will be told. I just am curious myself.

 

[iusedtofloat]

Ok, here’s a theory:

What if Karen Read did hit him? But not by backing into him at high-speed as the commonwealth alleges.

Instead she inadvertently clips him as she pulls out of her parking spot. It’s just a tap and Karen never even notices. John’s a little unsteady on his feet, the road surface is icy and he loses his balance. Most times it would have just been a minor injury, but on this occasion he bangs the back of his head on the curb. Just a one-in-a-thousand piece of bad luck.

Since the impact was just a tap there are no injuries to his torso, only to his head. He bruises his hands as he slowly crawls forward making it a few feet onto the lawn before collapsing. As he lays there overnight, a passing stray dog investigates the unconscious human and scratches and bites at his arm. The dog may have even flipped John onto his back while trying to pull a Lassie and wake him.

The next day Michael Proctor is assigned to the case. For some reason he takes an immediate dislike to Karen. He’s already calling her the c-word. He is convinced she’s responsible but he’s also worried because he has little evidence. No eyewitnesses, no camera footage, no nothing. He wants an open-and-shut case with no fancypants defense lawyer getting her off on reasonable doubt. So, he decides to plant the taillight pieces.

However, Proctor never realized the havoc that his shenanigans would create. A broken taillight means that the SUV had to be moving at 20+ mph. Which means that John had to be hit on purpose. Yet a high-speed collision is inconsistent with John’s injuries and inconsistent with the lack of damage to the SUV. The illogic in the commonwealth case just fuels the conspiracy theories and leads people to suggest that the Alberts were involved in John’s death.

Thoughts?

the feds investigation stated he could NOT have been hit by a vehicle to get the injuries he had

 

[Wishbone]

Right, so this is from April 2022 Statement and tail light testimony is consistent with trial Day 14 testimony: All three (KR, JMc and Kerry) looked at tail light at JOK's house after 4.53am. However both statement and testimony re tail light observation are contradicted by ring camera vid from JOK's house Lally played in full yesterday. Jmo

JMc's testimony yesterday went to elaborate that after observing tail light, they went inside JOK's house through RHS garage door to look for JOK. JMc spoke with JOK's neice whilst there. After this all three went in Kerry's car to 34 Fairvie as per statement. Moo

I missed this earlier or forgot it or wasn't keeping track of time. Short video from newsnation worth the watch

VIDEO FROM DOORBELL CAM WAS TAKEN at 5:03 AM shows KR car tail light intact. I don't know what time KR called JM that morning, anyone know?

 

[keek]

I missed this earlier or forgot it or wasn't keeping track of time. Short video from newsnation worth the watch

VIDEO FROM DOORBELL CAM WAS TAKEN at 5:03 AM shows KR car tail light intact. I don't know what time KR called JM that morning, anyone know?

Thanks. Now what.

 

[ch_13]

the feds investigation stated he could NOT have been hit by a vehicle to get the injuries he had

We haven't seen the actual results of the investigation that the FBI experts did. But I presume what they said was that he couldn't have been hit as the commonwealth alleges: going in reverse at 24 mph, but leaving no marks on John's torso and no damage to Karen's SUV.

Could he have been tapped by the SUV, causing him to hit his head? A bump wouldn't leave any injuries to his midsection nor any damage to the car.

I'm really curious to hear all the testimony of the accident reconstructionists, on both sides.

 

[themonk]

We haven't seen the actual results of the investigation that the FBI experts did. But I presume what they said was that he couldn't have been hit as the commonwealth alleges: going in reverse at 24 mph, but leaving no marks on John's torso and no damage to Karen's SUV.

Could he have been tapped by the SUV, causing him to hit his head? A bump wouldn't leave any injuries to his midsection nor any damage to the car.

I'm really curious to hear all the testimony of the accident reconstructionists, on both sides.

How would being 'tapped' account for the arm lacerations?