Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 23

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I'm not sure, but you are probably right. Still seems strange though. This question (#41) is kind of out of place with the rest of the line of questioning.

I am pretty sure she wanted to answer several of them but the lawyer told her NOT to answer ANY. Thats the feeling I get. Yes, that question is very odd, it is obvious someone said something about her thinking about giving up Madeleine. If is true, I just cannot comprehend. I am a mom of a child with special needs (several) he is 8. It's not roses, I know that and we took 6 years before having a second child and STILL a HUGE challenge, nobody can understand what we go through but ourselves and God, so if Madeleine had special needs, I know how must have been for the Mc Canns, having said that, it never ever crossed my mind to give up my child just because it was too much to handle.

But again, everyone handles stress in many ways. Special needs kids can bring out the worst in parents that's why I think Gerry killed Maddie after she had some sort of meltdown. He did not intent to kill her but probably did it in a rage of anger.
 
Under what pretext?
All I could ever find about it was, "In her best interest". I personally thought it was so that she would be declared legally dead quicker and without the "red tape" so to speak.

SleuthMom, my DH and I too have a special needs (autistic) child, (now 16 years old) and waited 6 years to have our 2nd child. I also know how difficult it can be, and how I think it very possible for a parent to snap after yet another round of poop smear. Sleeping...or lack of, I should say, was one of my sons biggest (and personally my hardest to deal with) challenges. He was just so exhausting at Madeleines age. We were sleep deprived for years. I also know that sedatives have the opposite effect on my son. His Doctor prescribed a xanax for him once before we went to the dentist (because the previous experience was a total meltdown/nightmare) and he was bouncing off the walls. He is still up half the night, even now. I imagine if Madeleine had any similar problems (anywhere on the ASD spectrum from ADHD to full blown low functioning autism) it would be a mind boggling challenge for K & G and their perfect party life style.
 
I would like to know more about this as well. I'll try to search.

SleuthMom - if I remember correctly, this was the couple on the island. Can't quite bring it all to mind at the moment. Older man and a woman, called and said they had Maddie or info on Maddie and it would cost the McCanns money. Turned out it was a scam, the couple was busted and investigated. Seems there was some murkey stuff in their pasts.

On the "when did the McCanns know they were going to be arguidos" questions - you are right, the press said the McCanns knew before they went in for questioning. In fact, if you back through just the article headlines, you can see it happen. One day Kate is saying she can't bear to leave Portugal without Maddie, next day Gerry is saying it is time to go home. They started planning on leaving on Sept. 11th. Then articles about "why are they changing their minds?" Then questioning on Sept 7th and Kate is made an arguido. I'm not sure anyone knew Gerry was also going to be made an arguido. I think that happened after the fact, so to speak, but they were warned ahead of time about Kate.

I will say, I thought this was one of the most confusing aspects about the whole investigation. The PJ apparently set up appointments for the questioning/interrogations. I have never seen that happen with a suspect before. Generally, you just haul their rears in, ask the questions and based on the answers, decide whether or not they are a suspect. Not tell them days ahead of time, so everyone can get their stories straight.

Salem
 
Investigation – PJ believes that the McCann couple altered the crime scene in order to simulate the abduction

Evidence was manipulated

Maddie’s parents accused of changing the disposition of the furniture and of washing the sofa

The Polícia Judiciária has no doubts that Maddie’s parents changed the disposition of furniture and objects in the apartment where Maddie disappeared from on the evening of May 3, 2007, in the Algarve, thus manipulating the crime scene in order to better justify the abduction theory that they always defended.

According to the Polícia Judiciária’s investigation, which from today onwards is public, the coincidence between the marking of cadaver odour and blood which was given by the sniffer dogs behind the sofa “indubitably” proves that the sofa was pushed against the wall after the little girl’s death. On the other hand, given the few indicia that was collected from this piece of furniture, which was located on the same spot where the dogs gave a signal, the Judiciária admits the possibility that it was “subject to washing” in order to eliminate eventual traces.

Washing and moving the sofa??? :eek::eek::eek:

Soft toy placed on the bed

“There are strong indicia that they altered the crime scene, moving some of the furniture. The changes are indicators of simulation”, one of the PJ’s reports reads, also revealing that Maddie’s soft toy, which was found at the top of the bed where Maddie slept, was placed there at a posterior moment, given the fact that contrary to the soft toy, the bed failed to reveal cadaver odour.

Wow!! What happened to CC being on a high shelf?? No cadaver scent on the bed, even though CC was on the bed and did have cadaver scent. :waitasec:

“There was an intentional modification, in an attempt to take advantage for the simulation of the picture of abduction”, one can read in the process, where the investigators recall that the procedures from the family were in such manner as to conduct the investigation into the direction of the abduction thesis. The Polícia Judiciária believes that the false abduction was “worked by the group”, which made the investigators “waste time”.

McCanns mentioned death to the PJ

The possibility that Madeleine is dead was raised to the PJ by the McCanns themselves, who suggested contacting a person to indicate the spot where the cadaver could be found. “This fact became unexplainable for the elements of the investigation”, the PJ writes, remembering that in front of the journalists, the parents continued to manifest the hope that they would find their daughter alive.

Another shocker to me because they flat out refused to consider that possibility....or so they said.

The dogs never failed in 200 searches

In over two hundred searches, ‘Eddie’ and ‘Keela’, the sniffer dogs of the springel spaniel breed that were used in the investigation into the disappearance of Maddie, did not give a single “false positive result”.

Read that again.....

The guarantee is given by English expert Martin Grime, who in the report about the search guarantees that the behaviour of the dog that is trained to detect cadaver odour “changed immediately after opening the front door of the apartment” where Madeleine McCann disappeared from.

:eek::eek:

“He went into the apartment with above average interest”, the document reads, explaining that the dog signaled inside the couple’s bedroom, in the living room, behind the sofa and next to the side window. The same signs were given by the dog that is trained to detect blood residues. The dogs signaled the same spots and objects that are related to the McCanns – house, car and clothes – which was decisive for being made arguidos.

Notes

No credibility

The deposition by Jane Tanner, who said she saw someone crossing the street carrying a child, was not considered credible by the PJ, which does not understand how the McCanns’ friend, upon seeing someone walking away from Madeleine’s apartment “did not act or speak out immediately”.

Everyone lies

The PJ says that the information that was collected from the McCanns and their friends was “worked upon” in order to strengthen the abduction theory. But it rapidly perceived that “everyone lies” in the issue of checking the children, further explaining that the family information, which in these cases is “fundamental”, was always “distorted”.

Shame on them, poor Madeleine.

Files | Process is public – From today onwards, the files of the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine can be consulted at the Court of Portimão by lawyers, witnesses and journalists.

Brown | Political pressures – Kate’s notebooks reveal that Maddie’s parents called the English prime minister, Gordon Brown, requesting for political pressure to be placed on Portugal.

Book | Amaral recounts death – The former coordinator of the Maddie case recounts in his book ‘Truth of the Lie’, his thesis about the case and defends that the little girl was killed in the apartment and her body frozen.


source: Correio da Manhã, 04.08.2008, paper edition

Copied from: http://www.helpmadeleine.proboards79.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1256&page=7 #95
 
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2452594&postcount=370

Very interesting interview, especially the questions about political pressure.

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Texana, I am not sure if I am correct (please anyone feel free to correct me). I have the impression that both Gerry and Kate knew before hand they would be made arguidos therefore they were counseled by their lawyers to not answer ANY questions at all. Those 48 questions to me are ALL the questions they were supposed to ask her, not that she chose to answer some and these 48 ones are the ones remaining. I have the impression the ONLY question she did answer was if she was aware that by refusing answering questions it would jeopardize the investigation. That's the impression I get, maybe I am wrong. I think she did not answer ANY at all.

SM,

The article (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2448975&postcount=368) states:

Kate began by replying all the questions, but when she was made an arguida, she stopped talking. She went silent, in the company of her lawyer, and accepted all the insinuations in a provocative manner.


I know that she had been interviewed a number of times prior to this particular interview with no reports of her being uncooperative.

Sounds to me like she was none to pleased with the direction the questions were going.....
 
I would like to know more about this as well. I'll try to search.

I am pretty sure it was this contact:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2002184.ece

A Spanish police spokesman said last night: “The police began to investigate them after finding out they attempted to get in contact with the parents of Madeleine to claim the reward offered. The facts suggest that this is some fraudsters although the police investigation is not closed.
 
Thanks for that link Colomon!

I had a few questions on that report you posted, CM - and thanks!!! by the way!! :clap: :blowkiss:

on the report that Colomon posted:
--at 20H30 (8:30pm) the couple went out to the restaurant;
--at 20H55 (8:55pm) the witness MATTHEW OLDFIED assumes that, he went near the outside of the window of the bedroom where MADELEINE was sleeping-a window that was closed - in order to verify if there was any noise in the inside that might indicate that child was not asleep. He neard nothing, therefore concluding that everything was well.
--at 21H05 (9:05pm)/21H15 (9:15pm) the father went to check the children, noticing that all was normal, the window and the blinds were clodes, however the door to the room seemed more opened than when he had left;
--at 21H20 (9:20pm), a friend from the group, JANE TANNER< when heading for her apartment, noticed an individual who carried a child in his arms, walking down the road. She described him as aged 30 to 40, with dark hair and wearing light coloured trousers;
--at 21H30 (9:30pm), it was the time for another friend, MATTHEW OLDFIED, to go to the MCCANNS' aparment to check on the childre, but he only saw the twins, given the fact that he did not enter the room. In roder to see MADELEINE'S bed, he would have to go inside. He detected nothing out of the ordinary;
--at around 22H00 (10pm), when KATE went to the apartment she verified that MADELEINE had disappeared, and that the window and shutters of the bedroom were open.


okay - I've bolded some times up there - so Matthew leaves the table 25 mins after the McCanns get there - THEN Gerry leaves maybe 10 to 15 minutes later - and then at 9:30 - only 15 minutes AFTER Gerry had checked Matthew again goes to check on Madeleine...

Sorry - but something fishy about these times to me... SOMETHING was going on here - WHY so many checks within that period of time... ?? :waitasec: - it just looks suspicious to me!! Anyone else??
 
also on post #19 of Colomon's report:

in a total of ten vehicles, the cadaver odour dog and the blood odour dog ONLY signaled the vehicle that belonged to the MCCANN family, which was rented on the 27th of May).
and then from colomon's post 21:
On page 2897, the copies of the contract of the vehicle that was rented by the McCANN familywere requested, and added from pages 2900 to 2937, as well as the registers from anterior rentals, including the last user, who was heard on page 2997.

so.... what was that?? Where can I find out WHO this person was at the time of Madeleine's "alleged" abuduction?? That would be interesting to know... from my memory here - I thought I read 'somewhere' that Matthew Oldfield had that car?? or is my memory failing me?? LOL!!

If anyone can clear that up!? TIA! :)
 
Press Association: http://tinyurl.com/6anbw8

Madeleine probe dossier opened

The secrets of Portuguese detectives' investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance were laid bare with the official release of thousands of pages of evidence.

The police files from the exhaustive inquiry, which lasted more than 14 months, after the shelving of the case a fortnight ago.

The mammoth dossier - said to run to 20,000 pages - includes details of the lines of inquiry pursued by detectives, witness statements and transcripts of interviews with the little girl's parents, Gerry and Kate McCann.

The files were released under Portuguese law after the lifting of the period of judicial secrecy in the case.

Officials from the public prosecutor's office in the Algarve town of Portimao have copied the documents onto DVDs for reporters who have requested them.

Lawyers for the McCanns, from Rothley, Leicestershire, were formally given access to the files last week. They are studying the dossier for fresh leads that the couple's private detectives can follow up in their own search for their daughter.

The McCanns are keen not to give "a running commentary" on their legal team's trawl through the files, family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said. And they are reluctant to respond to questions raised by journalists allowed access to the documents.

Mr Mitchell said: "The Portuguese Attorney General, in his recent statement, made it very clear indeed that there's absolutely no evidence of any wrongdoing by Kate and Gerry in any way, shape or form and journalists should bear that in mind when they examine the police files.

"A lot of this is historical detail drafted by officers who failed to find Madeleine and who quite wrongfully were going down inaccurate lines of supposition and assumption. We will not be commenting on any of this. "


Madeleine was nearly four when she vanished from her family's holiday apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz on May 3 last year as her parents dined with friends nearby.

Spinning like a madman.....

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RE: Goncalo Amaral's book, The Truth of the Lie

Our friend summer from the Proboards 79 site reminds us that:

I have not heard anyone contradicting a single word from his book.

There have been the usual attacks on his character, his reputation - but not a word to disprove or contradict the actual contents of the book.

The PJ report didn't contradict it either, as far as I could perceive.


I would really appreciate some REBUTTAL to the contents of the book....anyone??? Please???
 
Short on time at the moment - but from today's Portugal Press release - this is how the McCann's looked for their child:

The PJ says that the information that was collected from the McCanns and their friends was &#8220;worked upon&#8221; in order to strengthen the abduction theory. But it rapidly perceived that &#8220;everyone lies&#8221; in the issue of checking the children, further explaining that the family information, which in these cases is &#8220;fundamental&#8221;, was always &#8220;distorted&#8221;.

Does any one question why she was not found?

Salem

 
Short on time at the moment - but from today's Portugal Press release - this is how the McCann's looked for their child:

The PJ says that the information that was collected from the McCanns and their friends was “worked upon” in order to strengthen the abduction theory. But it rapidly perceived that “everyone lies” in the issue of checking the children, further explaining that the family information, which in these cases is “fundamental”, was always “distorted”.

Does any one question why she was not found?

Salem


Exactly~! Couldn't get a straight story from the family about any of the specifics--and then the McCanns complained loudly and bitterly about the incompetence of the PJ.

To this day: Door unlocked or locked? is just an example.
 
Snagged from Proboards79...thanks Bouncy:

ALERT ALERT:

BBC NEWS THIS EVENING:


The reporter (Steve Kingston) has just said that he's seen some of the files. It states that it was the BRITISH police's evidence that made K&G arguidos. It was BRITISH dogs and the FSS has said there was some compatibility to Madeleine's DNA in the blood samples taken from the apartment. The cadaver dog alerted to a death odour meaning that a dead body seemed to have been in the apartment.

He also said Kate was asked about what was found and she refused to answer that and 47 other questions.

BBC seems to be well and truly doing a hatchet job on the McCanns. I couldn't believe my ears!!!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Not so much the content of the report, we have heard all that before, it's that the BBC are reporting it....oh my :eek:
 
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