Maui Hawaii Wildfires, 97 dead, Aug 2023

[Gemmie]

Way cool of the makers of Spam!

The makers of Spam, saying that their “special relationship with the Hawaiian community spans decades,” have donated over 264,000 cans to aid the disaster-relief efforts on Maui, the company said in a press release.

[...]

The company said it has partnered with nonprofit group Convoy of Hope to get the cans to where they are needed most.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/18/business/maui-fire-spam-hormel/index.html

 

[Gemmie]

Maui locals claim death toll is 480 as morgues run out of body bags Maui locals claim death toll is 480 as morgues run out of body bags

Yeah, that's the unofficial death toll (and it will more than likely double or more). Officially it's 114.

Maui officials confirmed Friday that the wildfire death toll has risen to at least 114, while the search for hundreds of missing people continued in the historic coastal port city of Lahaina, which was almost completely destroyed by the blaze.

Only six of the victims have so far been publicly identified.

Search for Maui wildfire victims continues as death toll rises to 114

Several hundred federal search and rescue personnel are using dozens of cadaver dogs to comb the Lahaina burn area for human remains.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[otto]

First it was mismanagement at Hawaiian Electric where the power was out in Lahaina, but the wires were live long after the power went out ... infrastructure issues that were identified in 2017, funded in 2019, and still not started in 2023?

What next? It gets better. The most important issue was consulting a farmer about water equity and water diversion during an out of control fire that happened so fast it incinerated people in their homes.

Water was delayed 5 hours during the Lahaina fire. Is it possible that the man behind the decision has other plans for the land?

"Manuel was transferred to another position within the Department of Land and Natural Resources Wednesday, according to Honolulu Civil Beat, which first reported the story of the delay.

The West Maui Land Company said in an Aug. 10 letter to Manuel that his commission refused its request to divert streams to fill landowners’ reservoirs in the hard-hit Lahaina area until the wildfires raged out of control, according to a report.

Sources told Honolulu Civil Beat that Manuel had asked the company to consult with a local farmer about the impact of water diversion before approving their request."

Hawaii official concerned with ‘equity’ delayed releasing water for more than 5 hours as wildfires raged: report

An official who delayed the release of water during the deadly blaze on Maui believed equity needed to be discussed before distribution.

nypost.com

 

[otto]

Hawaiian Electric (not Maui electric) left live power lines on the ground for hours, and Maui Fire Department water access was restricted because it took 5 hours for a farmer to agree to using water to put out forest fires rather than irrigate land?

I'm all for indigenous rights, but it sounds like common sense was lost here.

“We watched the devastation around us without the ability to help,” said the company in the letter. “We anxiously awaited the morning knowing that we could have made more water available to MFD [Maui Fire Department] if our request had been immediately approved.”

same link

 

[Charlot123]

First it was mismanagement at Hawaiian Electric where the power was out in Lahaina, but the wires were live long after the power went out ... infrastructure issues that were identified in 2017, funded in 2019, and still not started in 2023?

What next? It gets better. The most important issue was consulting a farmer about water equity and water diversion during an out of control fire that happened so fast it incinerated people in their homes.

Water was delayed 5 hours during the Lahaina fire. Is it possible that the man behind the decision has other plans for the land?

"Manuel was transferred to another position within the Department of Land and Natural Resources Wednesday, according to Honolulu Civil Beat, which first reported the story of the delay.

The West Maui Land Company said in an Aug. 10 letter to Manuel that his commission refused its request to divert streams to fill landowners’ reservoirs in the hard-hit Lahaina area until the wildfires raged out of control, according to a report.

Sources told Honolulu Civil Beat that Manuel had asked the company to consult with a local farmer about the impact of water diversion before approving their request."

Hawaii official concerned with ‘equity’ delayed releasing water for more than 5 hours as wildfires raged: report

An official who delayed the release of water during the deadly blaze on Maui believed equity needed to be discussed before distribution.

nypost.com

One word: corruption

 

[mickey2942]

I think some people that step down after a huge issue they were responsible for, citing "health reasons", do so in order to save face. He may have been pressured to go and wanted to save face as I said. JMO

Or to keep a fat pension. Terminated for cause can be a problem for pension benefits.

 

[otto]

One word: corruption

From a Canadian perspective, with no dog in the fight, yes, it looks like corruption. First Hawaiian Electric Maui provides a scapegoat, then waterworks Maui provides a scapegoat.

We get it. Hawaiian Electric company gave millions of dollars to stockholders in the last 4 years, rather than upgrade electricity infrastructure. Maui Waterworks had to consult indigenous water irrigation before releasing water for an out of control fire storm.

Emergency protocol ... check with farmer's irrigation plans before diverting water for forest fire. Do not turn off power regardless of downed power pole fires.

 

[Cryptic]

From a Canadian perspective, with no dog in the fight, yes, it looks like corruption. First Hawaiian Electric Maui provides a scapegoat, then waterworks Maui provides a scapegoat.

I am guessing that the corruption is not largely based on cash, but rather "localism"- that can be every bit as fierce paperwork wise as surfer localism.

In the end, Hawaii, along with New Orleans (and the rest of Louisiana), Puerto Rico, and native Indian reservation are very "closed worlds" in many aspects.

Government positions and positions with quasi governmental entities such as local electrical companies, subsidized hospitals are highly sought after and are reserved only for true locals who are accepted as part of the local culture.

This closes off the these positions to outside talent and ability. The talent pool can get even shallower when these positions are further restricted to those locals with certain last names, those with friendship "connections", or those who can give something in return.

The totality creates a world where strange things occur in emergencies. Whether its parking evacuation busses in flood areas with out the keys or Superdome "readiness" in NOLA, or not shutting off electrical lines and pursuing fuzzy "water equity" concepts with a raging fire in Maui.

 

[Cryptic]

The news is getting worse and worse.....

It looks like the feds are acknowledging 850 missing people.

If federal disaster response professionals are acknowledging 850 missing, it could greatly increase the chances that a significant number of the missing are truly missing (as opposed to just being hastily added to a temporary missing list kept by well meaning volunteers with a low criteria to be added on).

And... horribly, it looks like if one is truly missing, they are very likely dead. The number of deaths could rise to say 960 (the current count, plus most of the truly missing 850).

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/21/politics/biden-hawaii-fire-visit/index.html

 

[IceIce9]

Hawaii wildfires: The red Lahaina house that survived Maui fires

The 100-year-old wood structure was recently renovated but not fireproofed, say owners.

www.bbc.com

Mr Millikin and his wife said the house was in disrepair, so they sought to restore it. It may have been these renovations that saved the home, the pair told US media.
They switched out the home's asphalt roof for one with heavy-gauge metal, surrounded the house with river stones and removed foliage around it. But none of these actions were meant to stop a blaze, they said.
"It's a 100% wood house, so it's not like we fireproofed it or anything," Dora Atwater Millikin told the Los Angeles Times.
She said as the fires blazed, large pieces of wood would hit people's roofs. "If it was an asphalt roof, it would catch on fire. And otherwise, they would fall off the roof and then ignite the foliage around the house," she said

 

[10ofRods]

FBI-vetted list of the missing puts the number today at 850.

850 who may never be found.

Maui mayor: New FBI-vetted list puts number of missing in Lahaina at 850

Teams armed with cadaver dogs have searched about 85% of the town.

www.hawaiinewsnow.com

 

[Gemmie]

‘Disaster capitalism at its finest’: Fights over water amid west Maui’s charred ruins ignite new fears​

“There has been a great deal of water conflict on Maui for many years,” Hawaii Gov. Josh Green said in one of his first appearances after the blaze. “It’s important that we’re honest about this. People have been fighting against the release of water to fight fires. I’II leave that to you to explore.”

The statement outraged advocates for nature and cultural conservation, especially since it came on the heels of a written request by the powerful West Maui Land Company to suspend and amend Lahaina’s hard-fought water rights.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/21/us/hawaii-lahaina-water-wildfire/index.html

 

[airportwoman]

Way cool of the makers of Spam!

The makers of Spam, saying that their “special relationship with the Hawaiian community spans decades,” have donated over 264,000 cans to aid the disaster-relief efforts on Maui, the company said in a press release.

[...]

The company said it has partnered with nonprofit group Convoy of Hope to get the cans to where they are needed most.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/18/business/maui-fire-spam-hormel/index.html

This is one situation where "healthy" goes out the window. Giving people familiar foods is great for morale.

Has anyone here read the WWII-era memoirs, "Burma Surgeon" and "Burma Surgeon Returns"? They are long out of print, but not hard to find. Anyway, in one of the books, the author told a story about an air drop, wooden crates dropped by parachute, and one of them contained hundreds of cans of SPAM. Several soldiers, upon seeing the cans, vomited because they were so grossed out at the idea of eating yet another bite of the stuff.

I'm hearing that a large percentage of the 850 people still listed as missing were children. I have a feeling that many whole families were destroyed, whether by the flames, or drowning.

 

[airportwoman]

Yeah, well, I think the government of Hawaii FINALLY grokked that 80-90% of Maui's income is from tourism.

And 80-70% of Hawaii's income is from Maui.

Aloha, Tourists! Extreme tourism people must be gleeful.

Pretty sure that 25-30% of Maui hotels are intensely affected by the wildfire.

And...while people might still book Ka'ana'pali, the main reason to go to West Maui is Lahaina.

I'd love to know 1) how many Hawaiian natives want tourism to resume vs. 2) how many local businesses are owned by off-islanders, who want business to resume. It's about 1 tourist per 1 local resident for the Lahaina region - and that says a lot.

MOO.

Maui? I would have guessed Oahu.

 

[Cryptic]

The statement outraged advocates for nature and cultural conservation, especially since it came on the heels of a written request by the powerful West Maui Land Company to suspend and amend Lahaina’s hard-fought water rights.

Gee.....

115 confirmed dead and 850 people missing and increasingly presumed dead. Then factor in fatalities that are not on a missing list as they lacked relatives and a truly fixed address.

Though there were many factors which contributed to the magnitude of this disaster, one factor was the unavailability of water to immediately fight the fire and the slow governmental response to desperate requests to release water for the fire fighting effort.

I would say that the West Maui Land Company is right.... there do need to be some real changes to how water is stored and how quickly it can be released.

I have a sneaking suspicion that a good number of the 950 plus dead are local families that the cultural conservationists claim to care about- but apparently only so long as their water usage agenda is being advanced.

 

[10ofRods]

Maui? I would have guessed Oahu.

I think my figure was based on GDP (not income taxes). Maui creates profits for the hotel industry. It's my understanding that Waikiki tourism isn't doing so well, and that Oahu derives a lot of its income from the military (which is not computed into GDP). And now that Big Island has direct flights from the mainland, Oahu is not as busy. I don't think wealth gained from real estate investment is in GDP either. But meals and hotel stays are (this was a change to GDP about two decades ago).

Anyway, that led me to this report, which seems recent - but I haven't read all of it yet. It certainly makes me want to now about hotel stays on Oahu:

Outlook for the Economy

2nd Quarter 2023 Report Download Data Table (spreadsheet) Hawaii’s economy continues to recover from the COVID-19 pandemic. During 2022, Hawaii welcomed a total of 9.2 million visitors, representing an 89.4 percent recovery from 2019. U.S. visitor arrivals by air were 13.7 percent higher than...

dbedt.hawaii.gov

The fact that Waikiki Beach itself is disappearing is one reason Oahu hasn't grown at the same rate as Maui, I think (but this last year, Maui was really struggling too). Whole situation is now economically fragile, IMO.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

As of Monday, there were 115 people confirmed dead, according to Maui police.

“The names of, and any information related to the missing individuals, will not be published or be made publicly available at this time,” a Maui County spokesperson said via text message.

There are also widely varying accounts of the tally of the missing. Hawaii Gov. Josh Green said Sunday on the CBS News show “Face the Nation" that more than 1,000 remained unaccounted for. Maui Mayor Richard Bissen said in a pre-recorded video on Instagram that the number was 850. And during President Joe Biden's tour of the devastation on Monday, White House homeland security adviser Liz Sherwood-Randall put it between 500 and 800.

Maui confronts challenge of finding those unaccounted for after deadly fire

Maui authorities say more than 800 people remain unaccounted for two weeks after the deadliest U.S. wildfire in more than a century destroyed the community of Lahaina.

www.newsday.com

 

[10ofRods]

Over 6000 people (nearly the entire adult population of Lahaina) have filed for unemployment.

Maui job losses mount, but anti-tourism could block recovery

Javier Cantellops, owner and president of Kihei-based Maui Dreams Dive Co. and Island Style Diving, said in the days since the deadly Lahaina wildfire, business on Maui has dropped so much that he already has had to furlough or lay off 40% of his staff.

www.staradvertiser.com

And rebuilding to align with tourist interests is, apparently, receiving some opposition. (Same article).

I was surprised to learn that one holiday rental business lost $25,000 in just the first three days of this disaster. Wow.

 

[Cryptic]

And rebuilding to align with tourist interests is, apparently, receiving some opposition. (Same article).

I guess there are no easy solutions.

Over tourism, whether its Maui, Venice, Rome or the Croatian Adriatic and some Thai spots presents real infrastructure, cultural and over all quality of life issues.

But... as your articles mention, truly substantial amounts of tourism dollars are needed to maintain the economy in Hawaii.

The balance, if one exists, appears to be very hard to find. Even before Covid, the "Road to Hana" on Maui had turned into "The Perpetual traffic jam to Hana".

 

[10ofRods]

I guess there are no easy solutions.

Over tourism, whether its Maui, Venice, Rome or the Croatian Adriatic and some Thai spots presents real infrastructure, cultural and over all quality of life issues.

But... as your articles mention, truly substantial amounts of tourism dollars are needed to maintain the economy in Hawaii.

The balance, if one exists, appears to be very hard to find. Even before Covid, the "Road to Hana" on Maui had turned into "The Perpetual traffic jam to Hana".

There are no easy solutions. Today's articles include pleas by Hawaiian locals for tourists to return to Maui. People are scared. The state is going to have to foot unemployment pay-outs, and of course, there's no easy way to rebuild on an island in the middle of the Pacific. Some people want a memorial village (like that one tiny section of Kona that maintains King K's celebration grounds); others want rebuild of Front Street ASAP and many local are saying they intend to rebuild on the land they already own.

But, many have mortgages in addition to construction costs. There should be national movement toward aiding people in this situation in declared disasters. Most people have barely enough money coming from insurance to pay off their existing mortgage (and apparently some companies don't let you do that - but will only disburse for rebuilding). So people have to pay both rent and mortgage (unless they are permitted to live in a tent on their land and sanitary measures are taken by local government).

It's so terribly complex and sad. Rebuilding in traditional style with materials found on the island is what some are advocating, but truthfully, most Hawaiians do want regular houses these days. But maybe some of the downtown can be done traditionally. Lots of lava rock on Maui.