GUILTY MD - Javon Thompson, 16 mos, starved to death, Baltimore, Jan 2007

[Disguiseduser0308]

The resurrection clause is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. While we all know that will never happen and Mom will serve her time, the fact that she was granted this farce makes a serious mockery of the courts this was tried in. JMO.

 

[Tichad3]

The whole thing just makes me sick.

 

[Lola]

The resurrection clause is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. While we all know that will never happen and Mom will serve her time, the fact that she was granted this farce makes a serious mockery of the courts this was tried in. JMO.

Yes, we KNOW it will never happen, but belief is belief and what people believe often bears little resemblance to reality. This is about religion....and many religions believe in resurrection.

 

[Kat]

I have never heard of

* Under terms of plea deal, charges will be dropped if he rises from dead quote from Daisy7 post # 5

being entered into court as part of a plea deal.

What are her lawyers thinking other than to show the court this woman is mentally unstable?

Is it possible for a defendent to amend a plea deal like that? To say, well I'll serve the time but if the person I killed is resurrected then I get a free pass?

I can't believe this was even presented to the court.

Perhaps someone can explain to me how this was considered advisable to the defense attn. to present this?

 

[southcitymom]

The resurrection clause is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. While we all know that will never happen and Mom will serve her time, the fact that she was granted this farce makes a serious mockery of the courts this was tried in. JMO.

In a couple of weeks, LOTS of people are going to celebrate a fairly famous resurrection. Are all Christians who believe in the resurrection of the body deluded? Is Easter a farce?

I think including the resurrection clause was very clever and crafty as it probably helped seal the plea agreement, get this women's testimony against others culpable in this child's death and get her psychiatric help plus jail time. That's creative and win-win!

I think this woman is mentally ill. It's a very sad case.

 

[southcitymom]

I have never heard of
being entered into court as part of a plea deal.

What are her lawyers thinking other than to show the court this woman is mentally unstable?

Is it possible for a defendent to amend a plea deal like that? To say, well I'll serve the time but if the person I killed is resurrected then I get a free pass?

I can't believe this was even presented to the court.

Perhaps someone can explain to me how this was considered advisable to the defense attn. to present this?

It sounds to me like the woman would only plea if this was included. She obviously believes to her core that the child's resurrection is a real possibility. And who are we to say it's not? As I said in an earlier post, many folks believe (and even celebrate) that physical resurrection is possible and real. Granted, it's uncommon - but what harm is there to "give" her this language in the plea if, with it, she is willing to testify against others and will serve time and get psych help.

 

[Kat]

Thanks for the explanation SCmom. I had never heard of plea deal like that before. I do think she's mentally unstable, and needs psych treatment.

As for any other people within that cult that knew this was going on or had advised her to punish her child in this way, they too should be held accountable.

I, myself, have a great sympathy for those defendent's that either have a prior diagnosis of mental illness or are psychotic or delusional when they commit a crime.

I haven't really given it any thought as to her religious preferences. I was mainly just curious as to why this would be presented to the court, and you answered that, thank you.

 

[wfgodot]

The odd plea stipulation costs the state nothing, and the plea bargain itself saves the taxpayer money.

In regards the tragedy itself, this is what can happen when a person is deluded to the extent that he or she falls into the clutches of a religion led by somebody called "Queen Antoinette."

 

[southcitymom]

Thanks for the explanation SCmom. I had never heard of plea deal like that before. I do think she's mentally unstable, and needs psych treatment.

As for any other people within that cult that knew this was going on or had advised her to punish her child in this way, they too should be held accountable.

I, myself, have a great sympathy for those defendent's that either have a prior diagnosis of mental illness or are psychotic or delusional when they commit a crime.

I haven't really given it any thought as to her religious preferences. I was mainly just curious as to why this would be presented to the court, and you answered that, thank you.

I too have sympathy for her and for her child. Religion and mental illness are a BAD combination, but they often find each other. I agree with you 100% that any others involved in this need to answer for it.

Like you, I had never heard of a plea like this, but - knowing just a little bit about the way pleas work - I applaud it. Like most of us, I don't believe that her son will be physically resurrected, but I do believe that she believes that.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

In a couple of weeks, LOTS of people are going to celebrate a fairly famous resurrection. Are all Christians who believe in the resurrection of the body deluded? Is Easter a farce?

This paragraph is a religious disagreement. There are many people who do not believe in Christ's resurrection due to not believing in a higher power or a God. Easter is not a farce to those who believe it.

I think including the resurrection clause was very clever and crafty as it probably helped seal the plea agreement, get this women's testimony against others culpable in this child's death and get her psychiatric help plus jail time. That's creative and win-win!

I'll agree that it was creative. And those are good points I hadn't considered. I think I am just disheartened with this entire case. This little boy died because of the mother's "religious" beliefs/followings. I've stepped in with emotion instead of logistical thinking. I don't like that the baby's possible resurrection was used as any kind of bargaining tool for a plea deal. This child died at the hands of religious teachings that no true Christian would ever agree to. And yet, they still allowed that last little dig (can't find the right phrase for this) .. because they believe he may resurrect. Well we see where their beliefs caused this baby to end up in the first place.

 

[southcitymom]

This paragraph is a religious disagreement. There are many people who do not believe in Christ's resurrection due to not believing in a higher power or a God. Easter is not a farce to those who believe it.



I'll agree that it was creative. And those are good points I hadn't considered. I think I am just disheartened with this entire case. This little boy died because of the mother's "religious" beliefs/followings. I've stepped in with emotion instead of logistical thinking. I don't like that the baby's possible resurrection was used as any kind of bargaining tool for a plea deal. This child died at the hands of religious teachings that no true Christian would ever agree to. And yet, they still allowed that last little dig (can't find the right phrase for this) .. because they believe he may resurrect. Well we see where their beliefs caused this baby to end up in the first place.

The Mother truly believes the baby may be resurrected. We might call her beliefs crazy, but I don't know how we can perceive them as a dig (I think I know what you are saying with that word) because this truly seems to be her reality. As someone else pointed out, it costs the Court nothing and gains them everything to recognize that the Mother believes this.

I completely agree with you that the irony of this case (baby dies as a result of insane religious beliefs and then insane religious beliefs continued into plea) is frustrating. Also, I agree that the consequences of mental illness and religious fervor are often devastating.

 

[mysteriew]

This paragraph is a religious disagreement. There are many people who do not believe in Christ's resurrection due to not believing in a higher power or a God. Easter is not a farce to those who believe it.



I'll agree that it was creative. And those are good points I hadn't considered. I think I am just disheartened with this entire case. This little boy died because of the mother's "religious" beliefs/followings. I've stepped in with emotion instead of logistical thinking. I don't like that the baby's possible resurrection was used as any kind of bargaining tool for a plea deal. This child died at the hands of religious teachings that no true Christian would ever agree to. And yet, they still allowed that last little dig (can't find the right phrase for this) .. because they believe he may resurrect. Well we see where their beliefs caused this baby to end up in the first place.

I agree with you. While I accept that they were treading carefully because of her right to religous freedoms, and while I accept that they included it because it was probably essential to the plea deal, I have to also look at it another way.

Let's say she was correct and he is resurrected. Should she not be punished for contributing to his death in the first place? Should she not be punished for the abuse of his remains after his death? For the pain and trauma she caused whoever had the misfortune of finding his poor little remains? Even if he is resurrected, he still died due to her actions. Resurrection wouldn't change that. She was his mother, she not only allowed but also observed him to cry, suffer pain, and become ill before her eyes. And she did nothing to save him.

I am also not too comfortable with the probation and deprogramming sentence. Will the other members also be sentenced to probation and deprogramming? If she was under cult influence, wouldn't they also be? I would have been happier with at least a one year sentence, even in an MH facility so she could have been observed and supported a little closer.

If she has another child, will she join another cult? Will she be going to probation and deprogramming classes during the day then going home and visiting with the cult and asking for forgiveness during the evening?

 

[wfgodot]

Not only do we believe in the literal resurrection of the dead (Jesus; Lazarus), we Christians also believe that, at Holy Communion, we drink the blood and partake of the body of Christ, either literally or symbolically. There's not much getting around it, that these, indeed, are odd beliefs.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

Not only do we believe in the literal resurrection of the dead (Jesus; Lazarus), we Christians also believe that, at Holy Communion, we drink the blood and partake of the body of Christ, either literally or symbolically. There's not much getting around it, that these, indeed, are odd beliefs.

I understand and respect that. However, it seems no harm is intended or even possible with taking communion. That does not equal to me the starving and beating of a child for not saying amen to appease God. In fact, everything I've read and understand of the gospel is very specific on how we are to treat gods' children. There's beliefs and then there's quackery. And what these people did to this child was quackery.

 

[southcitymom]

I understand and respect that. However, it seems no harm is intended or even possible with taking communion. That does not equal to me the starving and beating of a child for not saying amen to appease God. In fact, everything I've read and understand of the gospel is very specific on how we are to treat gods' children. There's beliefs and then there's quackery. And what these people did to this child was quackery.

You are absolutely right, of course. It is no secret that the Bible has been and is routinely used to condone terrible things - slavery, discrimination, abuse, and murder, to name just a few.

 

[LCoastMom]

The odd plea stipulation costs the state nothing, and the plea bargain itself saves the taxpayer money.

In regards the tragedy itself, this is what can happen when a person is deluded to the extent that he or she falls into the clutches of a religion led by somebody called "Queen Antoinette."

I agree on one hand and on the other the mother in me is horrified. For what this baby went through and what his mother went through. For what his grand parents are still going through.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03/31/cult.child.death/index.html


Court documents say Ramkissoon joined One Mind Ministries after Javon's birth in 2005. Silverman described her as a petite, soft-spoken woman who rejected her family's Hindu religion, became a devout Christian and wanted to raise her son in that religion. "She didn't want to have to work or go to school. She just wanted to take care of her son, and they offered her all this," he said.

This sounds to me like teenage rebellion gone bad. The teen mom didn't like the way things were at home so she found a home where she could behave as she pleased. Then they gave her a bill.

Her little baby, was 19 mos old when he died, by then they had the mom completely at the will of the "Queen". Where does it say in modern Christianity that we are supposed to serve anyone other than GOD. For anyone to say they (the cult) are devout Christians is to make a mockery out of Christianity.

This is wrong on every level, I'm not saying the mom was acting on her own free will, but if she's not call it what it is. She was not worshiping GOD when her baby died, she was not behaving as a Christian.

 

[wfgodot]

I wasn't in the slightest defending the beliefs of this cult. I was just pointing out that my faith's core beliefs are odd ones when looked at objectively.

Historically, what the this group did is not, in one sense, unique; a variety of cults have expected deceased members to be resurrected. The horror here, of course, is that a child who could not have acquiesced for a moment to this bizarre belief-system is the victim.

 

[Lanie]

I agree having a 'resurrection' clause in a plea deal is odd and all that, but what about her being given a 20-year SUSPENDED sentence for starving a 19-month old child to death?
I couldn't care less if she was under the influence of a cult led by Queen Antoinette. Her baby died at her hands, and she should be in jail for it. WTF does it matter why she did it, that baby is still just as dead from starvation, all the while I am sure she was stuffing her face, and so were the rest of those scumbags.
IMO, if she is so sure that baby is going to come back to life, why doesn't she starve herself, and be resurrected, as well? Along with the rest of those cultists? I am completely appalled by this sentence.
Rant off.
Lanie

 

[Claycat]

I'm not feeling very Christian about this! I think she should be starved to death as her punishment!

Yet another example of the idiocy of religion! IMO

 

[Texas Mist]

2 Women In Cult Case To Represent Themselves

Two women won't have the benefit of lawyers when they go on trial on charges they starved a 1-year-old boy to death while part of a religious cult.

Queen Antoinette and Trevia Williams have opted to represent themselves at their murder trial in Baltimore.

more here

http://wjz.com/local/cult.baby.charges.2.1497227.html