Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #15

[Sonata]

The problem in those diagrams is that it seems clear to the eye that in the main toe blob, there are actually two toes - the big toe and the toe next to it (only appearing right at the top of the print). Despite this the print seems to have been measured as if the two toes combined comprise the big toe, this is why the measurement is larger and therefore seems to match RS better than RG.

However if you actually look at the prints with your eyes it seems quite clear to me that the bloody print is much closer to RG than RS.

 

[Sonata]

thanks. Well, I was wrong about the bank, but right about the empty purse. I don't know if you're a woman, but if you are, don't you find it odd that it's completely empty?

Yes! I ain't no girly girl and my bag is still FULL of all sorts. Earrings, make-up, loose change, receipts, hairbands etc

 

[Sonata]

If you have no towel, why can't you keep wiping your feet on the rug and then go get the towel?

I'm not a scooter, which is why water gets EVERYWHERE if I'm caught without a towel... it's not just the feet, its drips from the hair in particular. I'm guessing wet hair is the reason you guys don't take wasnt_me's advice?

 

[dgfred]

The problem in those diagrams is that it seems clear to the eye that in the main toe blob, there are actually two toes - the big toe and the toe next to it (only appearing right at the top of the print). Despite this the print seems to have been measured as if the two toes combined comprise the big toe, this is why the measurement is larger and therefore seems to match RS better than RG.

However if you actually look at the prints with your eyes it seems quite clear to me that the bloody print is much closer to RG than RS.

What is your excuse for the width of the 'ball' of the print matching RS... not RG?

 

[Sonata]

What is your excuse for the width of the 'ball' of the print matching RS... not RG?

I'm not making 'excuses'; I'm not the one on trial here! :innocent:

However, I'll take a good look at it when I get home tonight (posting from my phone now) and will let you know what I observe.

 

[dgfred]

I'm not making 'excuses'; I'm not the one on trial here! :innocent:

However, I'll take a good look at it when I get home tonight (posting from my phone now) and will let you know what I observe.

IMO stating judges/jurors would not be able to tell if one toe was overlapping another is an excuse... but I do realize you are not on trial here.

OK, we will look forward to it.

 

[Sonata]

IMO stating judges/jurors would not be able to tell if one toe was overlapping another is an excuse... but I do realize you are not on trial here.

OK, we will look forward to it.

Can you clarify what you say I'm making excuses for? That's quite a harsh way of describing what I'm doing IMO, which is intended to be carefully considered insight as if I had been on that jury.

I don't think its a stretch to do that since jury members are no different to any of us in terms of ability to come to a conclusion. So, I don't feel like discussing my opinions is particularly insulting to a jury.

And whilst I do not claim to be more astute than any judge, I do allow for the fact that they are just as capable of coming to a false conclusion. We know this from history.

I'm just clarifying that I'm not saying anyone is wrong here - just stating my observations. If that isn't what this forum is about then please direct me to the nearest asylum.

 

[emyr]

What is your excuse for the width of the 'ball' of the print matching RS... not RG?

Sorry, complete re-edit.

I don't understand why the measurements aren't drawn like the measurements drawn of the ink prints. The arrows on the ball overlap the arrows on the toe on the ink print. The ball is shorter than both of them. But is it because the measurements are off?

Honestly, and I'm not trying to pull a fast one here, I feel like I'm being asked to look at Rorsascht (how do you spell that anyway?) test. I can tell you for sure that's not a child's foot. It's probably not Amanda's foot. It might be Rudy or Raffaelle's foot. But seriously, if I'm supposed to ID a murderer on that print alone that's ridiculous. Of course, that's not the case, but this evidence is weak.

Yes, it might be Raffaelle's if his clearly very bloody foot didn't leave an imprint from his hammer toe on half his big toe. Yes, it might be Rudy's if you had a big bloody drip or his second toe crimped in from his right. And maybe the print came from exiting the shower, or putting his foot down from the bidet. ???? Maybe Rudy shifted his weight causing his foot to be a few millimeters wider or maybe Raffaelle didn't place his foot blah blah blah blah.

Just my opinion.

 

[dgfred]

To clarify:
Excuse would be- the reasoning/excuse for RS measurements of the big toe coinciding with the print because of an 'overlapping' toe that the judges/jurors wouldn't/didn't notice. Isn't that an excuse for the print matching RS instead of RG? The same thing can be done with all the measurements... the jurors could not see which is plain looking over the internet.

 

[Sonata]

Am I mistaken or does the ball of the print match no one? (short)

I think its extremely hard to tell with the ball. The big toe is easier to work with because the two defendants have such markedly different shaped big toes. The ball is more homogenised. That is exactly why I didn't comment on it in my previous post.

 

[dgfred]

Am I mistaken or does the ball of the print match no one? (short)

Well I'm not sure if you are mistaken, but the measurements in the post above show the width of the 'ball' matches RS exactly at 99mm. RG's is 93.

Of course, saying the measurements are wrong throws all of it out the window.

 

[Sonata]

To clarify:
Excuse would be- the reasoning/excuse for RS measurements of the big toe coinciding with the print because of an 'overlapping' toe that the judges/jurors wouldn't/didn't notice. Isn't that an excuse for the print matching RS instead of RG? The same thing can be done with all the measurements... the jurors could not see which is plain looking over the internet.

I see what you're getting at but I just think excuse is the wrong word. It suggests making allowances and downplays my right to an opinion of my own.

Making excuses to me sounds like a child trying to get out of doing chores. It suggests that there is no reasoned basis, only a desire to exhonerate regardless of all context. That sounds pretty far from my intentions.

 

[Sonata]

Well I'm not sure if you are mistaken, but the measurements in the post above show the width of the 'ball' matches RS exactly at 99mm. RG's is 93.

Of course, saying the measurements are wrong throws all of it out the window.

I would never claim that the measurements are wrong. There is no reason for me to believe that.

However, I do think that mm's on a textured piece of cloth where somebody's foot may have shifted around or a heavy amount of liquid could be absorbed and dispersed through the surrounding material is not the best place to look! I am not saying it shouldn't be a consideration, but I do think the more obvious area to concentrate on is the more distinguishing characteristics of both possible assailants (ie the big toe).

 

[ChasingMoxie]

No, trust me, we do have it made. Except for the occasional "caught in the zipper" accident, men's clothing is so much more convenient and comfortable.

And let's not even go into the shoes!! No, wait, let's! Can we please? :heartbeat:

I do not have a shoe problem; I have a shoe challenge.

 

[Malkmus]

The problem is declaring this a match to Sollecito when the big toe is shaped different, the height of the ball is different, and liberty has been taken in regards to measuring the width of the big toe (it’s measured as 30mm for an area where there is clearly no blood). The measurements are also imprecise for matching it to Rudy, so this print is inconclusive at best. You can’t take one part of measurements (the width of the ball) and say well this part is the same as his so it must be his, especially considering that the rest of the measurements are off.
Personally, the biggest problem for me is and always will be that RS has the luck of having a distinctly shaped big toe which is not represented on the bathmat. If that big toe had the same unique shape it would be next to impossible to argue against it being his…. But it’s not.

 

[milliac]

I have not followed this case at all and only know general info. Where is the best place for a gal to start learning? Thanks!

 

[Sonata]

I have not followed this case at all and only know general info. Where is the best place for a gal to start learning? Thanks!

Hi Milliac!

I started by watching some of the documentaries that you can find for free on youtube etc. The ones from early in the case have some now proven false information and tend to present the prosecution's side. The later ones tend to be more defence biased.

It's a good way to get a broad view of what was presented to the media and how it has evolved.

Once you have more of a foundation, reading back on this forum is a good way of finding some of the more official documents as well as the pieces of evidence that people cannot agree on.

Happy investigating!

 

[dgfred]

I see what you're getting at but I just think excuse is the wrong word. It suggests making allowances and downplays my right to an opinion of my own.

Making excuses to me sounds like a child trying to get out of doing chores. It suggests that there is no reasoned basis, only a desire to exhonerate regardless of all context. That sounds pretty far from my intentions.

It seems to me you are doing the same thing with the definition of 'excuses'.
I have no way of knowing what your 'intentions' are/were.

 

[Sonata]

It seems to me you are doing the same thing with the definition of 'excuses'.

What am I doing? I am not sure what you're saying...

 

[dgfred]

I would never claim that the measurements are wrong. There is no reason for me to believe that.

However, I do think that mm's on a textured piece of cloth where somebody's foot may have shifted around or a heavy amount of liquid could be absorbed and dispersed through the surrounding material is not the best place to look! I am not saying it shouldn't be a consideration, but I do think the more obvious area to concentrate on is the more distinguishing characteristics of both possible assailants (ie the big toe).

Well actually you can 'use' the same reasoning for the big toe. What if the whole toe didn't touch the mat, what if it shifted or didn't, what about less or more absorbtion? Right?