GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #6

[Izzylizzy]

I wonder if she was forced to go off her drugs cold turkey in jail or if her doctor was allowed to continue prescribing or at least allowed to let her taper off them, which is much more medically appropriate unless she was not taking them every day.

2 Cents

OMG! LOL!
I was just thinking the same about her being jailed after taking quite a few Xanax going to sleep when they were holed up in the art studio before they were arrested.
I have read that the recent Adderall shortage has been brutal for Adderall takers.

 

[Megnut]

If Xanax was given to Ethan by his parents (remember they gave him melatonin?) It was strictly for sleep and to help calm him down.

Xanax is for the treatnent of anxiety and is quite potent. It is also used for sleep. It has zero to do as a party drug. It would be a dangerous party drug. It would be likely to make you fall asleep at the party and if you took "X amount" with alcohol - it could kill you. I think Judy Garland who played Dorothy in "The Wizard Of Oz" died this way. This combination suppresses your respitory system.

I think I remember the incompetent Crumbley's texting about giving Ethan Xanax. This might be what Jame's meant when he said "Just take a pill and suck it up."

So they think their child needs to be calmed down on Xanax yet they will not take their child to a psychiatrist who can prescribe their child with his own antidepressants and Xanax, etc.... Plus counsel him, etc....

2 Cents

7 Deadliest Drug Combinations

Although there are dozens of drug combinations that pose risks, here are seven of the most significant threats to guard against.

psychcentral.com

Both alcohol and benzodiazepines (Xanax) work as depressants in the body's central nervous system and increase sedation..........When mixed with alcohol the combination can be potentially lethal.

Yep.."take a pill and suck it up"

This was the morning after parents and EC had a fight.

In the early morning texts between J & J when James said EC couldn't remember how he got in their bed the night before and he looked like he drank too much the night before James asked Jennifer if she had given him a Xanax?
IMO: He asked like it was something they have done before.
EC also had texted his only friend that his father had given him half a pill, so was that a Xanax?

FWIW I think that's exactly çwhat J was doing -- giving him Xanax probably to knock him out (chemical babysitter?). Then she was free to do as she pleased. All night perhaps.

No one told E who may have introduced it to alcohol. With tragic results.

You get the sense that, at home, he was feral. Raised by wolves. Who mostly pretended he wasn't there.

I wonder what his disposition will be when his parents are sentenced. Regret? Joy?

Playing out family drama on the public stage, making innocent bystanders pay the price.

Loss surrounded by loss.

 

[Izzylizzy]

FWIW I think that's exactly çwhat J was doing -- giving him Xanax probably to knock him out (chemical babysitter?). Then she was free to do as she pleased. All night perhaps.

No one told E who may have introduced it to alcohol. With tragic results.

You get the sense that, at home, he was feral. Raised by wolves. Who mostly pretended he wasn't there.

I wonder what his disposition will be when his parents are sentenced. Regret? Joy?

Playing out family drama on the public stage, making innocent bystanders pay the price.

Loss surrounded by loss.

If EC is court ordered to undergo therapy during his life of incarceration then his parents and his home life they created for him will eventually come into focus if it hasn't already.
Where he goes or doesn't go with it in therapy is up to him.
He's had 2.5 yrs to think about his parents and going for an appeal on his life w/o parole sentence his parents neglect may be part of it and I would assume that his lawyers have discussed his life with them, starting from his childhood which was ugly according to a neighbor who was friends with his mother until she reported her to CPS.

Not one person was called by the defense to testify that either of he Crumbley's were caring ,loving, involved parents.

 

[Cool Cats]

FWIW I think that's exactly çwhat J was doing -- giving him Xanax probably to knock him out (chemical babysitter?). Then she was free to do as she pleased. All night perhaps.

No one told E who may have introduced it to alcohol. With tragic results.

You get the sense that, at home, he was feral. Raised by wolves. Who mostly pretended he wasn't there.

I wonder what his disposition will be when his parents are sentenced. Regret? Joy?

Playing out family drama on the public stage, making innocent bystanders pay the price.

Loss surrounded by loss.

Ethan's attorneys are trying to get his sentence reduced to Life With The Possibility Of Parole.

This is the reason they did not want him to testify for the defense at his parents' trials and told the judge that if he was forced to do so that he would plead the 5th.

I also wonder what he will think when his parents are given their actual sentences.

I especially wonder if he will be angry with his attorneys for keeping him from testifying at his parents' trials. His patents specifically wanted him to testify and maybe he will feel he let them down.

Especially if all of his appeals fail. All of his appeals that beg to get his LWOP sentence exchanged to Life With The Possibility Of Parole.

Like he is 25, and he regrets not trying to help his parents, not "being there" for them.

2 Cents

 

[Odeto BJ]

Honest question...Under normal circumstances a lawyer would offer detailed advice and make recommendations to his client but ultimately a yes/no decision is the client's to make.
EC is a minor tried as an adult and his crime has resulted directly in imprisonment and felony convictions for his parents. Under those circumstances, who is ultimately responsible for making decisions in EC's ongoing case? Could there be a guardian appointed and would that party have a role in legal strategies when the crime was not committed under their watch? Are lawyers representing a minor empowered in this regard to a higher level than they would be if they were representing an adult?

 

[ChatteringBirds]

IF Ethan had been taking something besides melatonin, especially sometimes Xanax but also alcohol, we'll never know how much that contributed to his state of mind and actions. IMO it's not only medication/alcohol that can cause thoughts one wouldn't otherwise have, but also withdrawal from them. There isn't enough research into substances and shootings. And teens are affected differently than adults. But this is something we will never know. All JMO.

 

[MrsWatson]

Honest question...Under normal circumstances a lawyer would offer detailed advice and make recommendations to his client but ultimately a yes/no decision is the client's to make.
EC is a minor tried as an adult and his crime has resulted directly in imprisonment and felony convictions for his parents. Under those circumstances, who is ultimately responsible for making decisions in EC's ongoing case? Could there be a guardian appointed and would that party have a role in legal strategies when the crime was not committed under their watch? Are lawyers representing a minor empowered in this regard to a higher level than they would be if they were representing an adult?

Ethan was appointed a guardian ad litem.

'His life is worth salvaging': Guardian Ad Litem Speaks for Ethan Crumbley

Ethan Crumbley's ad litem addressed the Court, saying 'he is not the same person that he was' when he murdered four classmates. (12/8/23)

www.courttv.com

 

[MrsWatson]

Having Ethan testify in either of his parents' trials may have backfired spectacularly. I don't think there is any reason to believe he would have added anything positive to their defense. In fact, he could easily provide more evidence of their guilt.

MOO

 

[ilovewings]

Ethan was appointed a guardian ad litem.

'His life is worth salvaging': Guardian Ad Litem Speaks for Ethan Crumbley

Ethan Crumbley's ad litem addressed the Court, saying 'he is not the same person that he was' when he murdered four classmates. (12/8/23)

www.courttv.com

Well that's a quick "cure" --- in three short years he is not the same person: I wouldn't count on it---furthermore, his life is salvaged- no death penalty- he gets to spend the rest of his life in jail, working on being salvageable. There are so many kind-hearted gullible people - of course she wants to believe what she says.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Crumbley convictions set a legal precedent for parents that could reach beyond shootings

“I hope it leads to more prevention of gun violence. I hope it leads to people taking more responsibility,” Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald said.

www.nbcnews.com

The Michigan prosecutor who won convictions against the mother and father of teenage school shooter Ethan Crumbley said Friday her goal was not to ensure that the sins of other criminally convicted children are visited on their parents in court, but to prevent further gun violence.

“I hope it leads to more prevention of gun violence,” Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald said. “I hope it leads to people taking more responsibility. I don’t want a situation where a lot of prosecutors are charging people or parents for things that their children did, or are doing.”

But the twin convictions of James and Jennifer Crumbley — the first parents to be held criminally responsible for a mass shooting committed by their child — create a legal precedent that could lead to prosecutors to bring more cases against parents for the actions of their children...

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Two Karens, WDIV anchor Karen Drew and Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald, talk about what comes next following the convictions of James and Jennifer Crumbley.

Oakland County prosecutor speaks with Local 4 following Crumbley convictions

For more than two years, Karen McDonald has dedicated her career to getting justice for the families impacted by the Oxford shooting.

www.clickondetroit.com

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Oakland prosecutor says no charges against Oxford school officials

Late Friday, the Oakland County Prosecutor's Office said it didn't find sufficient evidence to charge district in connection with 2021 shooting.

www.detroitnews.com

Pontiac — The Oakland County Prosecutor's Office is backing away from possibly pursuing criminal charges against Oxford school officials for their role in the 2021 shooting that left four students dead.

Prosecutor Karen McDonald suggested her office may consider charges during a press conference Thursday after a jury found James Crumbley guilty of involuntary manslaughter. But late Friday, her office reversed course.

Chief Assistant Prosecutor David Williams issued a statement, saying "sufficient" evidence hadn't been found to charge the district.

"Our office has reviewed all of the evidence in the case," Williams said. "We did not find sufficient evidence to support criminal charges against any school district employees. We believe the Oxford community deserves full accountability, and we stand with the families in their pursuit of changes that would make that possible."

The reversal comes 24 hours after the parents of the four children killed in the Nov. 30, 2021 mass school shooting said their fight for justice wasn't over, even though all three Crumbleys have been convicted or sentenced...

 

[Misy]

I wonder if she was forced to go off her drugs "cold turkey" in jail or if her doctor was allowed to continue prescribing them or was at least allowed to prescribe a tapering protocol for her to follow to wean her completely off of them.

If she was prescribed these medications to take every day then it would be abusive - in my opinion - to have forced her to go off of them abruptly "cold turkey."


2 Cents

I’ve watched her testimony (both direct and cross) a couple of times. I didn’t notice it at all at first but rewatching… I think she may be on some kind of med. her eyelids are droopy sometimes, even closes her eyes briefly sometimes. Maybe due to her “greatest fear” public speaking. (Really? In light of everything that’s your greatest fear?) Could also explain her flat affect. Such a bizarre testimony.
Moo

 

[Knitty]

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