GUILTY MI - Ella Stafford, 1, & Johnathan Sanderlin, 1, drowned, Allen Park, 22 Oct 2010

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:rose: Fly with the angels, Jonathon & Ella :rose:
 
Missizzy said:
I just spent a good bit of time on Steven's MS page. The babies are dead. We can't ignore that fact. Something went horribly wrong. But this man seemed to genuinely step up to the bat for those babies. Not all young men do. I'm very very sad about this case. What went wrong?
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I've read the neighbors claimed Ella's mom was there that nite & she & Nicholson were arguing.

here's a link

<snippet>
Several neighbors reported to police that Taylor Stafford was at the home and fighting with Nicholson in the hours before the children were found dead. However, police said Nicholson told investigators he was the only adult home when the children died.


http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/25438844/detail.html

and it was discussed on NG's show one nite, too

Neighbors also gave statements to police, I should point out, that she was there that night. Neighbors said they heard her there. They heard the couple fighting, arguing. They said at one point, Taylor Stafford left and then came back. So there was some confusion, some discrepancy as to the timeline of events. But all along, she has contended that she was not, indeed, there that night.

http://www.cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1010/22/ng.01.html

Who knows what could make someone snap enough to be so heartless. I just never can wrap my head around it.
 
This is just horrible,those poor babies.I just can not understand how anyone could hurt these beautiful babies.
 
I'm getting really mixed vibes about this case. Is there any way this could have occurred the way the father said it did? I can't remember my daughter's capabilities at 13 & 15 months. Is there any way they could have accomplished this task? What if they weren't in cribs? Do we know for sure that they had cribs or did they sleep somewhere else? Is it mechanically possible for a 15-month-old to turn on a faucet? I just have some serious questions about this case.
 
Belinda said:
I'm getting really mixed vibes about this case. Is there any way this could have occurred the way the father said it did? I can't remember my daughter's capabilities at 13 & 15 months. Is there any way they could have accomplished this task? What if they weren't in cribs? Do we know for sure that they had cribs or did they sleep somewhere else? Is it mechanically possible for a 15-month-old to turn on a faucet? I just have some serious questions about this case.
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me too, im not understanding how the girlfriend was there, left and then returned during an argument that the neighbors witnessed AND THEN claims not to have been there at all. i cant think of any good reasons to lie about that. maybe its just bad reporting?
 
Missizzy said:
http://www.myspace.com/chzweez

He talks about his 16 year old brother being murdered, staying close to God, and helping his babies' mothers stabilize their lives. 100s of photos of his babies. He mentions that these two are the first two to make it to life and that he has many unborn ones in heaven. Now he has two who once lived in heaven.......
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Thank you for the link Missizzy, may I ask how you were able to read this? I am 'myspace' illiterate and am unable to view his page without an invite. This information you have provided has now put me on the fence...I must admit that I have yet to read about the case, having only watched it on NG.

Ugh! I just tried to write about these two babies being blessed in the Heavens and it is just so wrong!!! I am unable to find the words... we just shouldn't have to keep writing about these cherubs going missing or murdered at the hands of their own parents!!!!:banghead:
 
Belinda said:
I'm getting really mixed vibes about this case. Is there any way this could have occurred the way the father said it did? I can't remember my daughter's capabilities at 13 & 15 months. Is there any way they could have accomplished this task? What if they weren't in cribs? Do we know for sure that they had cribs or did they sleep somewhere else? Is it mechanically possible for a 15-month-old to turn on a faucet? I just have some serious questions about this case.
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I have serious questions too, Belinda. As to whether or not they could turn on the faucet, it would depend on the type of faucet. Ours is one that just has one control and if you turn it all the way to the left all you get is hot water. Our hot water is also hot enough to scald. We don't have babies or toddlers in the house but my mother has Alzheimers and just yesterday I allowed her to go to the potty by herself. I went running when I heard the water come on in the tub. The water was so hot that steam was rising from it and she was just about to climb in. Needless to say, she won't be left alone in the bathroom ever again. Said all that to say this, if those children climbed into the tub first and pushed up on that handle, the water would have come on and it would depend on what setting it was left on whether or not it came out hot.
If this man is responsible for what happened to those babies, he should get the maximum sentence available, but I think everything that can be done should be done in order to prove his guilt or innocence. According to his family, they just can't believe he did this, but if he was passed out from drinking then he is still responsible (in my opinion). One cannot do those things when in charge of babies.
BTW, if my mom had managed to get in that tub of hot water, I would be held resonsible and rightly so.
 
Following this sad sad story wondering if this was not a tragic end because this father made some poor choices. From everything I've read doesn't sound like he intentionally killed his babies. I think he was someone who was overwhelmed and in over his head. Also where were all these so called caring relatives that are now coming to his support when he really needed them. Sounds like this is a family with addictive symptoms and behaviors. Like they put on the facade of "I'll be there for you" but they really aren't. I think this poor guy was struggling alone, probably drank to cope and this was the end result. Very sad all the way around. JMO.
 
ooooooo, the plot thickens, maybe mum had somthing to do with it??
 
Those babies are adorable! Such blessings they were, and now they are gone forever from this earth!
I swear, I can't take these sick stories to play over and over on an almost daily basis!
When will this madness stop?:furious:

RIP precious Angels.
 
I know this won't be popular, but I feel if there was ever a case where the perp deserved community service, counseling, and rehab, this would be that case.

Providing that all information he has provided to the authorities is true to the best of his knowledge.
 
It seem's the myspace has been changed to private now. I was able to view it yesterday but not now. Looking at all his pictures, the majority were of his babies, tons of pics and lots of comments on how he felt about them. He may have been far from perfect but he did appear to truly love those babies deeply. I hope this is fully investigated. Possibly he could have been drunk and decided to run a bath for himself or the children, then fell asleep, and the babies climbed into the tub? Would like to be clear on if the mother was actually there or not.
 
Yes, the MS is now private but just imagine over 200 photos of babies doing what adorable babies do....parks, new toys, car seat shots, lazing about the apartment with Dad. There were a couple of photos of a mom, I believe the mother of the daughter. Two people commented, "Is that your baby girl's mom?", and that tells me that his friends didn't see her often. I don't want to judge, I truly don't, but the Dad had commented that he was trying to stabilize the lives of his children's mothers. That's an awful lot for a young man to take on. There don't seem to be many other people in the photos--mainly just the babies--clean and nicely dressed and always smiling. Almost every pic had a cute caption under it. Not a single one was inappropriate on any level.

I've hesitated to post this as I have no proof. It's just a hunch from studying the photos. Does anyone think that this man wanted children and purposely talked two women into carrying to term? I've wondered if the moms ever intended to raise the babies as he seemed to get custody quite quickly. The photo of the one mom shows a number of tattoos--one of her baby girl's name across her breasts but also several which look a bit less innocent. I have a sense that these women live tough lives. I find it odd that this man wouldn't have had the young women falling all over him. A decent guy who's dedicated to his children? Personally, I think he drank and fell asleep and either left the water running or one of the babies turned it on. There was a comment about them likely rock and rock. Maybe he had the music turned up.

NMK--I 100% agree with you. I believe this man loved his children and the gravest penalty of all has already been meted out. I'd like to see him do community service and work back to a place of responsibility in this world. I liken this to a man who stupidly let his beloved children ride in the back of a truck.

FWIW, I got a call today from one of my sons asking what to drink to stay awake. He has a four week old and he's been taking the "night shift". He's 23 and very calm and level headed but he's still struggling.

I'm going to say it. My prayers go out to Steven tonight.
 
This is one case that truly has me baffled....and I don't say that too often. Usually, it's that "gut feeling" you get that leads you in one or the other direction. (Excuse the terminology "gut feeling" for all the KC Anthony case followers.)
AND...many posts addressed some of these same issues...sorry to be redundant. But bear with me....pretty please?? LOL

1) As mentioned...type of faucets...old fashioned "turn hot/cold" seperately, or the "swivel" type.
On my tub, the "swivel" has hot going LEFT....more than likely, IMO, the kids "would" have pulled the handle to the RIGHT because they could reach it to "swivel" to turn it on easier...OR, just pulled/pushed the swivel knob where it was, and most people have the H2O temp NOT on the hotest setting, again, IMO.
AND...this was an apartment....in my experience, the "ammenities"......heat/AC/hot/cold H2O....aren't what a "real" house would be....pretty much, the less the better.....IMO.

2) Childrens height...could they "physically" REACH the faucets to actually turn them on...they're usually NOT at the edge of the tub, but more centered and higher....and it's not all that easy to move the knob because of the resistence....AND, could they "physically" get into the tub by themselves....the edge is pretty high for them to hike their little legs "up and over" the tub edge....13 months = 1 yr 1 month...15 month = 1 year 3 months.....if i remember correctly, not all that tall at that age.

3)At that hour, kids are pretty soundly asleep....AND, IMO, the last thing they'd do is run to the tub, I'd think they'd go for the toys....or go wake daddy - or at least TRY to.....what about TV??? But a bath????

4)He was still friendly with one of the bio-moms...the whole "movie" thing, etc...might be believable, to me, IMO. More on the "not" side...I ain't got nothin for THAT one.

5) Neighbors "fight" info....people DO look similar AND sound similar. People can NOT tell the diff between my sis and I on the phone...even my other sis and relatives.....this point is a BIG piece of info, IMO....was it REALLY one of the bio-moms?? Again, I got nothin for this part, either.

6)Babies found on floor....H2O all around....but, daughters lips blue....WHEN did this happen...as opposed to when he reported it??

7)Father..."black out" drunk...."happy" one....."VIOLENT" one??? Forgot the "cry me a river" one...LOL

Go back to point "3" scenario.....babies wake up, run to daddy's room....try to wake him....he MAY be the "violent" type of drunk....gets PO'd that his children were bothering him during his "passed out" phase....he feels like crap....he needs to go back to being "passed out"...they start crying/trying to play with him....he's STILL in stupor/somewhat in "black out" phase...maybe thinks they could quiet down with a bath (oh, I don't know - stupid thought by me...LOL). Scalding hot H2O....more crying....he needs to get them quiet somehow....we all know the rest.

Speaking from experience....there ARE times where I woke up and thought "did that happen"??? Of course...."what the HECK was I thinking....that's not me, at all....what made me do/say those things". "How could I have drove up that curve and drive all the way home on the rim and not remember it"???

Oh, well...sorry for rambling...but this case just has me boggled. Guess I don't want to believe a parent could do this to their own children....oopps, HELLOOOO KC Anthony...sorry.
All just IMO.
 
MyTinkieGirl--You're not rambling. You typed out many of my same thoughts. I've wondered if the dad turned on the water and fell back asleep and the babies drowned on the floor. Wasn't it a basement apartment? There could have been some sort of a step-down into the bathroom. If they were scalded they could have been in shock and had no way to get away from the water burning their feet. I can barely stand to think of the sequence.

Isn't it interesting how many of us here are not quite ready to call murder? We all seem to be questioning this one. That tells me that there's likely more to the story. I guess that's why we have trials.

Bless those little babies.
 
Missizzy said:
MyTinkieGirl--You're not rambling. You typed out many of my same thoughts. I've wondered if the dad turned on the water and fell back asleep and the babies drowned on the floor. Wasn't it a basement apartment? There could have been some sort of a step-down into the bathroom. If they were scalded they could have been in shock and had no way to get away from the water burning their feet. I can barely stand to think of the sequence.

Isn't it interesting how many of us here are not quite ready to call murder? We all seem to be questioning this one. That tells me that there's likely more to the story. I guess that's why we have trials.

Bless those little babies.
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BBM ~ Very interesting. Typically when stories have to do with crimes against children, there is an immediate uproar, even from our open minded group here. Everyone seems to be very cautious on this one. Kind of throws you off kilter.
 
I think what has me holding back are the comments on his MS, the massive amounts of totally innocent "Proud Daddy" pics, the marginal involvement of the moms, and his demeanor in court. The man couldn't even speak he was sobbing so hard.

I know we've read about some DHS visits and some verbal abuse. I think, though, that anytime a young guy steps up to take custody of his two very young children, all eyes are going to be on him. I also think that DHS was possibly involved due to custody issues and the unique placement of two infants close in age.

And let's line up 20 of us and do a check on how many of our dads yelled at us to "hurry up" and thunked us on the head when we didn't. Mine didn't, bless him, but lots of men have been known to do this and still adore their children. This dad needed to be taught to knock off that behavior but those actions don't make him evil in my eyes.

I'll be honest and say that my heart is breaking not only for those babies but for their dad. Something went horribly wrong but I don't think killing the children was his intention. I commonly feel the same way for parents who drive drunk and whose children are killed in an accident.

I want to wait and hear the entire story. Maybe we're wrong but it is really unique for all of us to respond in a similar way.
 
I wish more info would come out.The little girls mom said she tried calling dad ,they were suppose to go to a movie.Makes no sense when she could not reach him she just goes to sleep.If he had my child and I could not reach him by phone ,I would have driven overthere.Something just does not seem right.
 
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