MI MI - Oakland County Child Killer, "The Babysitter Murders" , 1976-77 #2

[Nina Michigan]

My understanding is that Busch's brother Charles Nels Busch has refused to let LE get a DNA sample unless his entire family is put in witness protection, is that right? That doesn't tell me everything I want to know, but it tells me most of it.

No, my understanding is that he cooperated and the (limited) amount of DNA evidence they retained in this case is not a match to Busch.

Keep in mind that in 76/77 no one wore gloves and crime scenes were not protected or maintained like they are today.[/QUOTE]

 

[Ozoner]

No, my understanding is that he cooperated and the (limited) amount of DNA evidence they retained in this case is not a match to Busch.

Keep in mind that in 76/77 no one wore gloves and crime scenes were not protected or maintained like they are today.

BBM

True. So we don't really know whether LE has the OCCK's DNA. The DNA that they have could belong to any uniformed cop, investigator, crime-scene photographer, or journalist connected to the case.

They do have Gunnels' DNA, though. I wish they could get straight answers from Gunnels, but that probably isn't going to happen. I'm certain that both he and Arch Sloan could ID the OCCK(s).

I also wish that they could do some DNA testing on the Busches' long-dead white Pomeranian., but I imagine that it was cremated or buried in a mass, unmarked pet grave. I still think it would be worth looking into what veterinarian the Busches used. The Ross Hospital for Animals in Bloomfield Hills (est. 1966), Gasow Veterinary Hospital in Birmingham (est. 1933), and DePorre Veterinary Hospital in Bloomfield Hills (est. 1958) are all still in operation and would have been among the main vets serving the area where the Busches lived.

 

[tilomagnet]

No, they have the mt(?)DNA match of Gunnels to hair found on Kristine Michelich and the match of hairs found on Mark Stebbins, Tim King and in Sloan's car. Im not sure if the latter has been tried to match to DNA from Chris Bush's brother.

 

[Nina Michigan]

Oh man, we frequented Gasow in Troy when I was in HS. Nice that they're still around.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Oakland County Child Killer book highlights retired cop's efforts

 

[Richard]

BBM...I also wish that they could do some DNA testing on the Busches' long-dead white Pomeranian., but I imagine that it was cremated or buried in a mass, unmarked pet grave. I still think it would be worth looking into what veterinarian the Busches used....

An interesting thing to consider. While I doubt that any veterinarian would have any kind of DNA on file from so long ago, it is possible that a collar which had been worn by the dog might still be in existence, and that might provide a viable DNA sample from the dog.

I recently came across some leather dog collars, complete with registration tags from the 1970's in a box of old things my uncle had kept in his storage locker. While not connected in any way with this case, it certainly presents the possibility that perhaps such pet DNA could still exist these many years later.

 

[Ozoner]

An interesting thing to consider. While I doubt that any veterinarian would have any kind of DNA on file from so long ago, it is possible that a collar which had been worn by the dog might still be in existence, and that might provide a viable DNA sample from the dog.

I recently came across some leather dog collars, complete with registration tags from the 1970's in a box of old things my uncle had kept in his storage locker. While not connected in any way with this case, it certainly presents the possibility that perhaps such pet DNA could still exist these many years later.

I'm betting that the Busches would have had an AKC-registered dog; it might be possible to do genealogical DNA testing and determine whether the hairs came from their Pomeranian.

 

[Richard]

I'm betting that the Busches would have had an AKC-registered dog; it might be possible to do genealogical DNA testing and determine whether the hairs came from their Pomeranian.

Possibly. Although the American Kennel Club (AKC) did not keep DNA records dating back as far as the 1970's, they did (and do) keep extensive pedigree records of all AKC registered dogs.

IF... that particular Pomeranian dog was AKC registered, it would exist in the records - and if subsequent descendants of that dog were living when DNA testing/verification of dogs came into effect, one might be able to obtain evidence to compare with the dog hairs recovered at the crime scene.

 

[DynamicDanielle]

Not sure if you ya'll know but has this DNA but worked with sites like gedmatch or forensic genealogy? If lets say this murderer was in prison if they DNA tested him id assume maybe they would be able to match to people on gedmatch...

 

[Nina Michigan]

Not sure if you ya'll know but has this DNA but worked with sites like gedmatch or forensic genealogy? If lets say this murderer was in prison if they DNA tested him id assume maybe they would be able to match to people on gedmatch...

the DNA isn't high enough quality for GED match. JMO/YMMV I know because I offered to pay for any testing that could be done since I don't think 'budget concerns' should be holding this case up

 

[Ozoner]

the DNA isn't high enough quality for GED match. JMO/YMMV I know because I offered to pay for any testing that could be done since I don't think 'budget concerns' should be holding this case up

Well, there's already a DNA match to Gunnels, who was a Busch victim—so either Busch got Gunnels to help, or the hair was transferred by Busch. Either way, that proves Busch's involvement as far as I'm concerned.

I personally think that Christopher Busch and Gregory Green were both involved.

And I don't believe for a second that Christopher Busch killed himself. I think that Christopher's father figured out what was going on and took matters into his own hands or allowed others to do so in exchange for deflecting the investigation away from Christopher.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if John Nichols knew the truth.

 

[Brotherfudz]

Who is John Nichols?

Well, there's already a DNA match to Gunnels, who was a Busch victim—so either Busch got Gunnels to help, or the hair was transferred by Busch. Either way, that proves Busch's involvement as far as I'm concerned.

I personally think that Christopher Busch and Gregory Green were both involved.

And I don't believe for a second that Christopher Busch killed himself. I think that Christopher's father figured out what was going on and took matters into his own hands or allowed others to do so in exchange for deflecting the investigation away from Christopher.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if John Nichols knew the truth.

 

[Ozoner]

Who is John Nichols?

John Nichols was the Oakland County Sheriff from 1984 till his death in 1998. He was the Oakland County undersheriff from 1974 through 1977. In between those two assignments, he was the Chief of Police in Farmington Hills.

 

[DynamicDanielle]

I'm curious the few people they think were involved does any one know where they lived? Is there any way to figure out their homes? My mother and her ex husband lived pretty much right in the middle of all it when it happened. If you look at the map where their bodies were found my mother and her ex lived on Woodward until at least 1978 when she left him ... Actually he looks a lot like the drawings I know I know forcing them puzzle pieces together. He did go to prison at the end of the 70s and was in and out until 1991 when he finally spent 1991 until 2020... Just raised an eyebrow knowing they re right there ya know...Since he was in prison from 91 to 2020 id assume they would have his dna Just weird

 

[Nina Michigan]

I'm curious the few people they think were involved does any one know where they lived? Is there any way to figure out their homes? My mother and her ex husband lived pretty much right in the middle of all it when it happened. If you look at the map where their bodies were found my mother and her ex lived on Woodward until at least 1978 when she left him ... Actually he looks a lot like the drawings I know I know forcing them puzzle pieces together. He did go to prison at the end of the 70s and was in and out until 1991 when he finally spent 1991 until 2020... Just raised an eyebrow knowing they re right there ya know...Since he was in prison from 91 to 2020 id assume they would have his dna Just weird

yes, Greg Green lived in Flint. Christopher Busch lived in Bloomfield Village - north of Maple, east of Lahser. John Hastings, another suspect, also lived in the Village.

 

[Richard]

The Victims:


The first victims of the Oakland County Child Killer were Mark Stebbins, 12, who was killed after walking home in January 1976. Jill Robinson, 12, was killed in December 1976.

Kristine Mihelich, 10, vanished in January 1977 and was found 19 days later in a ditch. Timothy King, 11, disappeared in March and was also found in a ditch. King and Stebbins were both raped.

LINK:

Arch Edward Sloan: Man linked to Oakland County Child Killer Case has frightening history of child sex abuse | Daily Mail Online

 

[Lawnguyzzz]

BBM

True. So we don't really know whether LE has the OCCK's DNA. The DNA that they have could belong to any uniformed cop, investigator, crime-scene photographer, or journalist connected to the case.

They do have Gunnels' DNA, though. I wish they could get straight answers from Gunnels, but that probably isn't going to happen. I'm certain that both he and Arch Sloan could ID the OCCK(s).

I also wish that they could do some DNA testing on the Busches' long-dead white Pomeranian., but I imagine that it was cremated or buried in a mass, unmarked pet grave. I still think it would be worth looking into what veterinarian the Busches used. The Ross Hospital for Animals in Bloomfield Hills (est. 1966), Gasow Veterinary Hospital in Birmingham (est. 1933), and DePorre Veterinary Hospital in Bloomfield Hills (est. 1958) are all still in operation and would have been among the main vets serving the area where the Busches lived.

Has anyone thought that the police are totally wrong and the killer might have been turned in and ignored

 

[Ozoner]

Has anyone thought that the police are totally wrong and the killer might have been turned in and ignored

The police haven't named a suspect or ruled anyone out publicly so far as I know.

I'm convinced that Busch was involved, but I don't think that he acted alone. He doesn't resemble the eyewitness sketches. He might have been assisted by Gregory Green and James Gunnels.

Arch Sloan might have been involved, too. It seems like he was one of the prime suspects from fairly early on.

Ted Lamborgine is on the short list, too.

 

[Richard]

Bumping this thread up. This case is 45 years old.

 

[Falling Down]

The police haven't named a suspect or ruled anyone out publicly so far as I know.

I'm convinced that Busch was involved, but I don't think that he acted alone. He doesn't resemble the eyewitness sketches. He might have been assisted by Gregory Green and James Gunnels.

Arch Sloan might have been involved, too. It seems like he was one of the prime suspects from fairly early on.

Ted Lamborgine is on the short list, too.

I'm a firm believer that this set of crimes, and other sets of crimes against juveniles around roughly the same period of time along the Great Lakes, could very well be related in various ways. The Double-Initial/Alphabet Murders in my hometown come to mind, at least the two that LE know for sure are a mystery. Others happened elsewhere along L. Erie. One more that comes to mind is the Tammy Jo Alexander murder (formerly Caledonia Jane Doe).

What I'm driving at is I think various perps in these cases may have known each other.