Missouri, St. Louis - Teenage girl critically injured after brutal fight with another female teen near Hazelwood East High School, 8 March 2024

[Dotta]

That doesn't make what MD did right -- it'll never be right, but it does indicate she is a good candidate for the juvenile system, which was designed to be more rehabilitative than the adult system.

I think School's opinion will be decisive.
Teachers who worked with MD for years can be relied on their opinions of her/her behaviour.

JMO

 

[falkenberg3132]

Again, tending towards compassion and sensitivity can be exploited -- as I mentioned above, KG's "posse" are certainly seemingly trying to exploit that bias to wiggle out of consequences for their doing a Road Runner act.

Hard-boiled pragmatism is my approach. Watching my father's kindness and decently be endlessly exploited by freeloaders only confirmed to me the value of it (JMO).

 

[Yuletide]

I sure hope she makes a full recovery. Her family's statement is encouraging...



She does have to wear a helmet because they had to remove part of her skull to keep pressure from building up. But, they'll put that back eventually.

I'm just glad she's living at home again and that, hopefully, she continues to recover quickly.

My only thoughts are that MD has to be held accountable--but as a juvenile--given that she had no criminal record before this and has received glowing reports from her teachers.

That doesn't make what MD did right -- it'll never be right, but it does indicate she is a good candidate for the juvenile system, which was designed to be more rehabilitative than the adult system.

KG has made great strides in the last two months. She went from being in a coma for several weeks, to learning how to walk again, speech therapy, living at home with a helmet on, learning to brush her teeth, and now trying to conquer her short term memory loss. Those are encouraging statements from the family, but far too early in the process to determine she will make a full recovery in my opinion. Of course, I hope she does. Her journey to a full recovery will be long and painful and difficult on her family.

 

[ajksmom]

I was wondering when more information would come out about the background of these two young ladies. According to the unnamed officer, Kaylee was a bully who threw the first punch. She was suspended from school from fighting the previous day. IMO, she was at that location for no other reason than to fight, yet again.
IMO, I don't find it hard to believe at all that she routinely bullied Maurnice and others. I've seen constant comparisons between the size of the two girls. Bullies come in all sizes folks.

Maurnice had every right to defend herself, even from an attacker physically smaller than herself. Slamming Kaylee's head was a continuing of her defense, that was done in a moment where she was being piloted by adrenaline. I don't think her goal was to kill or harm Kaylee to the degree she did. Maybe just to send a message, stop the bullying. And I can believe her desire to apology is sincere.

I was all for swift, adult punishment when this story first came out. As the bigger picture becomes clearer, I don't believe this belongs in adult court. Maurnice will have to face consequences for the harm she caused Kaylee, while defending herself. And because she did not initiate the fight that day, there may be a history of her being victimized, and she was defending herself are all reasons I feel it should be held in juvenile court. And whatever sentence she receives, I hope that it is "justice" for Kaylee that also allows Maurnice to be "held accountable for her actions, while also helping her develop skills to avoid future delinquency, and mature into a law-abiding adult". (google search- what is the purpose of juvenile sentencings)

Handling this in adult court is not the answer. However if it is, any of Kaylee's school disciplinary and juvenile records (if they exist) will become public knowledge, as well as any evidence of prior bullying.

In all of this, I pray Kaylee gets the best treatment and services available and that she makes a complete recovery. I pray both girls can go on to lead productive and healthy lives.

I also help that there are lessons learned and changes made. I hope that this incident resonates with students at their school and with people within their community. A reasonation that produces change. Maybe beefing groups of students can come together and squash their issues. Perhaps even have some type of peer support groups for each other. Hopefully more parents will begin getting their children professional help to address the trauma they've experienced. And schools, I hope they can employ social workers, guidance counselors, and mental health professionals within the schools to meet students and families where they are, supporting them through difficult times and helping them get on the path to success.

All good points. MD went too far, and I think everyone agrees with that.

But would there have been a fight had KG not thrown the first punch? Would MD have eventually thrown the first punch? Who knows? But we do know KG was a brawler who had just been suspended for fighting. According to news outlets, she was also a bully.

MD has to be held accountable for her extreme level of violence, but I don't think we can overlook KG's guilt in the whole thing. The fight didn't happen in a vacuum--MD didn't just jump KG on the way home from school.

We know the girls were in "opposing" groups, which is also highly troubling. That community has too high a violent crime rate amongst young people, and both girls may have been affected by that.

I agree with the juvenile officer--this case belongs in the juvenile system.

Hoping one or both of you could help point me in the direction of media/statements where it was disclosed that KG’s involvement that resulted in her suspension the day before this incident was the result of her bullying or starting that fight also.
At least in my neck of the woods ALL participants in a “fight” at school (sometimes even “bystanders”) are issued suspension/treated the same. So when I first learned of her suspension I didn’t automatically assume she started it. Thanks so much.

 

[Yuletide]

Again, tending towards compassion and sensitivity can be exploited -- as I mentioned above, KG's "posse" are certainly seemingly trying to exploit that bias to wiggle out of consequences for their doing a Road Runner act.

Hard-boiled pragmatism is my approach. Watching my father's kindness and decently be endlessly exploited by freeloaders only confirmed to me the value of it (JMO).

I watched the video once and determined that once was too many times. Absolutely horrible. That being said, I noted KG on the pavement convulsing. MD stepping over KG as if she were a tree branch or a rock. Then I noted MD briefly exchanged with someone, then walked away casually with her group. At that point, the video I was watching kind of ended. I can’t really say for certain what KG’s group did after that. Whoever called 911 saved KG’s life.

 

[tlcya]

I'm betting it was a horrified neighbor who called 911 but that is JMO no link

Whoever called indeed probably saved her life that day.

 

[GRT]

Hoping one or both of you could help point me in the direction of media/statements where it was disclosed that KG’s involvement that resulted in her suspension the day before this incident was the result of her bullying or starting that fight also.
At least in my neck of the woods ALL participants in a “fight” at school (sometimes even “bystanders”) are issued suspension/treated the same. So when I first learned of her suspension I didn’t automatically assume she started it. Thanks so much.

The schools where I live have the same zero-tolerance policy, both participants, regardless of who started it, are punished.

I haven't heard that Kaylee's previous suspension for fighting was because she was the instigator -- just that she was involved.

But, according to the Juvenile Officer, KG was having some issues:

The unnamed juvenile officer's testimony supported her assertion, in which he confirmed Gain had been suspended for fighting another girl just the previous day.

The defense also produced several witnesses, including both girls' teachers, who revealed Declue never before had any behavioral problems, as the officer suggested she had been baited into the fight by the serial offender.

Further down in that same article, KG's dad seems to suggest that KG was having some issues and that some of them may have stemmed from KG living with her mother, who was not as strict as her father.

She went on to repeatedly ask to return to Nordstrom's home - a request Clinton said he begrudgingly agreed to.

He quickly came to regret that decision, he said - citing another tumultuous period where where Kaylee began to have problems at school, Hazelwood East High, and was repeatedly found herself involved in altercations, like the one with DeClue.

Who knows what all problems he's alluding to, but it seems as though "altercations" were not rare for KG.

Again, that doesn't make MD innocent. She certainly is NOT. She must be held responsible for her actions, but given her history, I agree with the Juvenile Officer that she should be tried as a minor.

 

[MollyDDD]

I do wonder if that true -- or if that is just the "posse" attempting to cover their arse?

Aaahaaaaa.

 

[seasideForest]

I'm betting it was a horrified neighbor who called 911 but that is JMO no link

Whoever called indeed probably saved her life that day.

It might have been a car driver who went past the fight, then stopped and waited a while. You could see that on one of the videos, which I linked back in early days. But it could have been a neighbour too.

I agree that whoever phoned probably saved KG's life.

 

[Sundog]

I think School's opinion will be decisive.
Teachers who worked with MD for years can be relied on their opinions of her/her behaviour.

JMO

Teachers can be relied upon for MD's performance in the classroom and what they have seen in the school. They may know nothing about MD's behavior outside of the school.

 

[Dotta]

Teachers can be relied upon for MD's performance in the classroom and what they have seen in the school. They may know nothing about MD's behavior outside of the school.

But the fight was the result of things happening in school.
And teachers observe students' behaviour (lessons, breaks, events) in school during a long time, even years.

It happens in my country.
If there is a case in Family Court concerning a pupil,
teachers are always summoned to Court to give their opinions about a pupil, his/her behaviour, family environment, contacts with parents, etc., etc.

And they are valued by Family Judge.

Teachers know a LOT about their students.
I do

JMO (as a teacher)

 

[falkenberg3132]

You have better faith in most schools -- and adults in power -- than i ever have. I learned the hard way.

 

[MyBelle]

I guess my point was that if someone truly is a “serial bully” doesn’t the school have the responsibility to remove said individual from the school and refer them to some sort of juvenile program? Thus, I question that choice of wording and the truth behind it. Just my opinion

I don't know the St. Louis school district handles any "serial bully" but there likely is a process that parents and students are aware.

When my kids were in high school, the students and parents had to sign a form that we had read the Student Handbook.

JMO

 

[falkenberg3132]

I don't know the St. Louis school district handles any "serial bully" but there likely is a process that parents and students are aware.

When my kids were in high school, the students and parents had to sign a form that we had read the Student Handbook.

JMO

How many people read the fine print in the real world or online?

 

[MyBelle]

How many people read the fine print in the real world or online?

I can only speak for myself. I don't sign anything I don't read in its entirety.

JMO

 

[falkenberg3132]

I can only speak for myself. I don't sign anything I don't read in its entirety.

JMO

People who post here are not the average and ordinary person. It is the average person who is the objective mean not outliers.

 

[GRT]

I see a lot of victim-blaming here, based on Kaylee's ALLEGED prior actions, of which we have no proof besides the suspension from the day before.

I liken it to a rape case. If a girl meets with a guy to have sex, does that then mean he gets to have sex with her no matter what? What if she changes her mind? What if she's unconscious? What if in the course of having sex, he beats her unconscious? Are we going to say "well she's had sex before, and she met him for that purpose so she shares culpability" and that should mean lesser punishment for the perp?

What if we were talking about drug users. One user buys something from a dealer that's laced with something that puts User A in the hospital with brain damage. Do we then say "well User A is half responsible so the dealer deserves a lesser punishment"?

Of course not. Extenuating circumstances only go so far before we look at the crime that took place and punish appropriately. So why are we using the victim's ALLEGED actions as an argument for why the perp should be tried in juvenile court?

MOO.

I get your point, but I don't think the sex/rape analogy is appropriate in this case.

Kaylee actually punched MD -- in any court in the land --that's assault.

And I don't think we're seeing victim-blaming. Kaylee's father is responsible for many of the statements and he seems to be honest.

The Juvenile Officer is tasked with getting all the information so the judge can make an informed decision as to whether this rises to the level of MD being tried as an adult or tried as a minor.

None of what they're saying now really affects Kaylee, because I doubt she's going to be charged with anything.

This is just about what led to MD using extreme violence and whether she's a good candidate for rehabilitation via the juvenile system.

I was a little taken aback by the Officer's statement that KG was a "serial offender," but her dad seems to corroborate that.

Still, everyone wants KG to make a full recovery. Even if she was that serial offender, I think most everyone feels she's been punished more than enough.

So now, the reports we're hearing are really only about whether MD should be tried as an adult.

I think a better analogy might be an abused wife who lashes out and shoots her husband. Even though he may have harmed her--the courts may decide she didn't need to take that level of action to stop him.

Same with MD -- she overreacted. She has to be held accountable. But, in a sense, she's also a victim.

 

[cujenn81]

Certification hearing held for 15-year-old charged in fight that left Kaylee Gain with severe brain injuries

A certification hearing was held Friday morning in the St. Louis County Courthouse for the 15-year-old girl who is charged with first-degree assault in the fight that left another North County teen with severe brain injuries.

www.firstalert4.com

There were days in the ICU where she would have fevers, experience low blood pressure, increased pressure on her brain, instances where her heart rate would skyrocket, and her entire body would begin twitching which the hospital staff suspected were more seizures. At one point she developed pneumonia, which meant twice a day for two weeks she underwent treatments where a machine would pound her chest over and over to loosen what was in her lungs. It was a traumatic roller coaster ride that we weren’t sure would ever end.

While our daughter will, in all likelihood, need lifelong medical care and therapy to overcome the injuries and trauma that were inflicted on her, we pray that the juvenile shows remorse and takes accountability for her actions so that no one else’s lives are so irreversibly changed in the future. A terrible choice made by two teen girls to solve their issues through violence caused one to go too far with her bare hands and a concrete road.

Your Honor, our family would like to thank the Court for allowing us the opportunity to express these sentiments, and for taking our comments into consideration when reaching a decision in this case. Our family trusts the judicial process and will respect your decision whatever it may be.

Full statement at the link above.

 

[airportwoman]

In short, it sounds like Kaylee was the kind of individual who finally ticked off the wrong person. Not that this makes any of it right in the long run.

 

[Yuletide]

In short, it sounds like Kaylee was the kind of individual who finally ticked off the wrong person. Not that this makes any of it right in the long run.

Indeed. So the question is does said ticked off person belong on civilized streets?