Missouri - The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #7

[cherrymeg]

I don’t think it’s silly to consider kids as suspects-if they did suspicious things. Is suspicion is in the eye of the beholder. If no one involved has blabbed in 26 years how can LE have information to disclose?

This is when they should go back and interview everyone that they knew went into the house, people who were at the parties. Out of town guest should be looked into. I wonder if by the time Janis realized they were missing if relatives at Janelle's and other students homes would still have been in the area.

 

[cherrymeg]

Picking apart Sherrill’s and Suzie’s lives is easy since they’re not here to defend themselves and correct misinformation. It bothers me the people Suzie spent graduation night with act as if hanging out with her was a favor. People suggested Stacy would probably be here if she hadn’t spent the night with Suzie. We don’t know it isn’t the other way around if their being together was truly a freak situation.
I think if we knew as much about Stacy as Sherrill and Suzie our opinions of what happened would be different.

Bravo!

 

[Talullah]

Suzie’s boyfriends’ names have been tossed around but we don’t know one person Stacy dated. Sherrill was married and divorced twice and had been in debt. What kind of guys did Stacy like? Did the McCalls have previous marriages? Had they been in debt? Investigators used Sherrill’s and Suzie’s personal information to generate leads and came up with nothing. Hopefully they’ve given the McCalls the same consideration.

 

[cherrymeg]

Suzie’s boyfriends’ names have been tossed around but we don’t know one person Stacy dated. Sherrill was married and divorced twice and had been in debt. What kind of guys did Stacy like? Did the McCalls have previous marriages? Had they been in debt? Investigators used Sherrill’s and Suzie’s personal information to generate leads and came up with nothing. Hopefully they’ve given the McCalls the same consideration.

Wasn't Cox employed at Stacy's at the same car dealership as her father? I agree the McCalls lives should be investigated. I understand parents of missing kids gloss over imperfections to get the police to take a case seriously. Three women vanishing with no real signs of a struggle, is going to get attention. Portraying Stacy as an angel that would do anything for anyone doesn't really give a sense of who she was. Janis McCall is alive and maybe people don't want to talk about the real Stacy warts and all. If Suzie and Stacy were actually good friends that would be nice to know. Teenagers lie to parents about boys or friends. That doesn't mean they are bad.

 

[cherrymeg]

I can sympathize somewhat with Missouri Mule about following cases a long time, doing a lot of research and narrowing down suspects and theories about how murders happened. It happens, especially if you're trying to be really careful about only choosing credible information and discounting rumors. But even LE know they have to bring in new people on cold cases and allow them to go back and look at files, evidence and information with "fresh eyes". Same with us. Things you may have ruled out in the past as irrelevant may need to be reconsidered. Alibis may be questionable, same with witness reports. Leads that didn't seem important may end up relevant when reconsidered.

I've fallen in the same trap myself on some cases. You just have to remind yourself to keep an open mind on some aspects of cases. Go back and re-check. Today I've been reading many of the old news reports on this case at Newspapers.com, looking at the case with "fresh eyes". But, yeah, I can see where MM gets burned out. It happens.

That makes sense. I am a little concerned that if there is a person he believes did this, that he isn't offering more information. This person might be dangerous, they might have committed other crimes. I also hate being left in the dark. lol.

 

[cherrymeg]

Hammond? He was a BIG DEAL....
Yes, sure wasn't an everyday occurrence....thank goodness.
Makes you wonder if someone from 'out of town' (Kansas?) was at one of those parties. With this big of a case, Kirby's famdamily should have been interrogated, IMO.

I keep meaning to say I like your picture. Is it a chocolate lab? It looks like my dog (not the on in my pic). I'm curious about the Kirby family's guests too. I wonder if any out of towners not just at the Kirby house could have been sex offenders in another state. Or maybe someone's relative that was in the area that night went on to commit other crimes. You never know.

 

[Talullah]

Wasn't Cox employed at Stacy's at the same car dealership as her father? I agree the McCalls lives should be investigated. I understand parents of missing kids gloss over imperfections to get the police to take a case seriously. Three women vanishing with no real signs of a struggle, is going to get attention. Portraying Stacy as an angel that would do anything for anyone doesn't really give a sense of who she was. Janis McCall is alive and maybe people don't want to talk about the real Stacy warts and all. If Suzie and Stacy were actually good friends that would be nice to know. Teenagers lie to parents about boys or friends. That doesn't mean they are bad.

According to Crime Watch, Cox did work at the dealership with Mr. McCall but they didn’t say if or how often they interacted. I read Janis said Cox probably saw Stacy at some point.
I couldn’t agree more about glossing over details. The disappearance of 3 women is too unusual for police not to take seriously. It doesn’t matter who Stacy was friends with or dated. “Glossing”could make potential witnesses doubt themselves or reluctant to report something. I hope the McCalls were open with LE and that Stacy’s and Suzie’s friends didn’t withhold details because they didn’t want to rat out their friends or male them seem petty.
I realize no one owes us information but half-stories and omissions make people suspicious and eventually indifferent. No one is perfect and it’s hard to relate to someone who’s portrayed that way.

 

[Satchie]

I start from the assumption that the intent of the crime, from the beginning, was abduction. That means a large enough vehicle was ready, with weapon/retraints and so forth, to prevent signs of struggle or a victim getting away, and also a plan for where to take them.

The fact no valuables were taken strongly supports this. What ordinary criminal can resist stealing cash while they're at it?

So then, if it was planned and not a fluke, my thoughts are that the perp(s) very likely knew who was in the home when he/they attacked it. Otherwise, there might have been a man or two there, which would defeat the plan.

So, to me, that means either someone who knew Suzy and Sherrill's living situation (would someone who knew Stacy know who lived in this home?), and/or some type of surveillance on the home to learn who lived there.

Then there is the fact that the abductions went ahead, in spite of a strange car being in the driveway. Again, whoever did it would want to know ahead of time who had come in that car. That, again, suggests surveillance, or following them home.

And instead of deterring the abduction, postponing it until there were fewer people home, the fact there were at least 3 people in the home seemed to encourage him/them to proceed.

That's very unusual, to want to kidnap 3 adults. Kidnapping one woman from a parking lot is one thing. So is invading a home and confining and attacking the people inside the home. But invading a home and taking away three adult women, is a whole different order of magnitude, in terms of needing to control them.

In fact, I can't find examples in any other case, of 3 people being simultaneously, successfully, kidnapped. I'd welcome examples if anyone knows of them.

To me, that says at least one accomplice, but maybe even 3 guys, so they could each control a victim.

And yet it had to be more than just a gang of hellraisers, because hellraisers make lots of mistakes, or rat on each other, and so forth.

It seems to me a very diabolical plan. If there was intent, planning, a certain amount of patience, care and precision not to leave clues. To me that says revenge, rather than, say, sexual thrills.

 

[Ozoner]

ETA: Also, what happened with the brown Dodge van police were looking for that had been stolen around the time they disappeared. It was seen near Sherrill's home around 4:30 am with two white men inside.

If that van hasn't been found, then it may be under water, and the women may be in it. I hope Lake Springfield has been swept with sonar. Of course, your average retention pond could probably hide a van.

What address was the brown van stolen from? Maybe the kidnapper has a juvenile record for boosting cars.

 

[Ozoner]

That's very unusual, to want to kidnap 3 adults. Kidnapping one woman from a parking lot is one thing. So is invading a home and confining and attacking the people inside the home. But invading a home and taking away three adult women, is a whole different order of magnitude, in terms of needing to control them.

In fact, I can't find examples in any other case, of 3 people being simultaneously, successfully, kidnapped. I'd welcome examples if anyone knows of them.

I don't know of any cases where three adults were abducted by a single perp, but the McStay family--two adults, including an adult male, and two small children--were abducted, driven to the desert, murdered, and buried by one perp (whom they knew).

It is believed that the three teenage girls (including a married 17- or 18-year-old) who vanished from Ft. Worth in 1974 were taken by a single perp.

There's also Joseph Duncan, who entered a home and killed an adult male, a teenage male, and an adult female before abducting two young children. He had performed surveillance on the family for about 24 hours (including observing them with night vision goggles) after seeing the girl playing in the yard in a bathing suit.

Abducting three women might not be that difficult if the trio includes a mother/daughter combo. You would control the mother by threatening the daughter. The abductor probably had a hand gun, and it was probably at Suzie's head. The abductor wouldn't have had as much leverage with Stacy, which is why Stacy was the one who tried to get away.

After getting the women to the van, the abductor probably had the girls tie up Sherrill immediately, or he might have just killed her. Since Stacy had tried to escape, he probably tied her up or killed her, too, and had Suzie drive him wherever he wanted to go.

 

[Brubeck]

If that van hasn't been found, then it may be under water, and the women may be in it. I hope Lake Springfield has been swept with sonar. Of course, your average retention pond could probably hide a van.

What address was the brown van stolen from? Maybe the kidnapper has a juvenile record for boosting cars.

Bingo. People wet themselves they are so excited to dig at Cox, but that lake is much more likely to hold clues, or even bodies. I asked earlier about Bartt, based on something I had read. I have heard the lake is important. Does anybody know if it has been looked into thoroughly?

 

[Catmommy]

I certainly don't think Bartt Streeter's father was a champion among men. I'm not going to belabor this point either other than to say Bartt was an immediate suspect because of the contentious relationship he'd had with his mother. He and his sister, Suzie, had also moved into an apartment together until it got "physical" and Suzie moved back home. I would like to know how Bartt was cleared. He also left town less than a year after the disappearances which seems odd when you don't know if your mom and your sister are alive or not. Unless, of course, he knew they weren't. Just a thought.

 

[Catmommy]

I'm of a mind that the kidnapper, whomever he was, was already at the house with Sherrill when the two girls came in unexpectedly. Sherrill was alive but secured either physically or with the threat of a weapon, gun most likely. The kidnapper was surprised but improvised and adapted his plan to remove all three from the house when he took them God knows where and did God knows what with them but I doubt seriously they were kept alive any time at all due to the logistics of managing three adult victims.

 

[cherrymeg]

According to Crime Watch, Cox did work at the dealership with Mr. McCall but they didn’t say if or how often they interacted. I read Janis said Cox probably saw Stacy at some point.
I couldn’t agree more about glossing over details. The disappearance of 3 women is too unusual for police not to take seriously. It doesn’t matter who Stacy was friends with or dated. “Glossing”could make potential witnesses doubt themselves or reluctant to report something. I hope the McCalls were open with LE and that Stacy’s and Suzie’s friends didn’t withhold details because they didn’t want to rat out their friends or male them seem petty.
I realize no one owes us information but half-stories and omissions make people suspicious and eventually indifferent. No one is perfect and it’s hard to relate to someone who’s portrayed that way.

Suzie and Sherrills lives have been investigated and any dirty laundry they had has been aired out. They are real people that you want justice for. The honesty about their lives makes you feel like you know them.

 

[MooseMeMuch]

Podcast..has a great map with ALL the places the women were visited or were 'sighted' that evening.

 

[Betty P]

Bingo. People wet themselves they are so excited to dig at Cox, but that lake is much more likely to hold clues, or even bodies. I asked earlier about Bartt, based on something I had read. I have heard the lake is important. Does anybody know if it has been looked into thoroughly?

In reading through the old articles in the Springfield News Leader, Lake Springfield has been searched numerous times over the years. The problem for this crime is that Springfield is also close to Branson & Table Rock Lake, a very large lake with many miles of shoreline in rugged, remote areas.

Google Maps

North of Springfield is Stockton Lake - same problem

Google Maps

 

[MooseMeMuch]

I'm of a mind that the kidnapper, whomever he was, was already at the house with Sherrill when the two girls came in unexpectedly. Sherrill was alive but secured either physically or with the threat of a weapon, gun most likely. The kidnapper was surprised but improvised and adapted his plan to remove all three from the house when he took them God knows where and did God knows what with them but I doubt seriously they were kept alive any time at all due to the logistics of managing three adult victims.

The house IS next to a business, convenient parking. Stacy and Suzie would not have seen or suspected anything amiss. Good detail...the perp would need to be able to 'adapt' w/out losing focus.

 

[Betty P]

Podcast..has a great map with ALL the places the women were visited or were 'sighted' that evening.

That's a pretty good podcast for anyone wanting to refresh their memory or catch up on the case. They went back and reviewed the old news articles containing a lot of information that was otherwise dismissed or forgotten. I still have concerns about some of the friends whose accounts of events and timelines changed. Also glad they focused on the witness reports of the guy at the Apco-A-Mart who saw both the girls and Sherrill come in at different times. His account of seeing Sherrill was dismissed only because a woman who lived across the street from the A-Mart said she saw the woman reported to be Sherrill go into the store that night and that her hair was "longer" than Sherrill's. Witness testimony, especially from a distance at night, can be subject to error.

I'm also glad they mentioned the neighbors reports of a prowler in the area of Sherrill's home that night, someone looking in windows. A lawyer neighbor went out the next day and found bushes trampled and a knife laying on the ground in his yard. The report from the newspaper delivery woman and the yard sale woman of a van near Sherrill's house also seem believable. The sketch of the driver that came from those reports can be found in the old Springfield News Leader articles. Because of the hypnosis factor, I don't believe the green van sighting at 6:30 am by the lady who said a blonde woman was driving and a man behind was threatening her.

I get the feeling someone was following these girls around at the parties. Possibly one of them was driving around with a suspicious character. I also think it's possible Sherrill was out looking for them at 2 am or so, but am not 100%. The credible van sightings would have happened around the time they arrived back home.

I see this podcast is from just a few months ago, so its good that people are still researching this case, taking a fresh look at it.

 

[asyousay]

The problem with Robert Craig Cox or somebody or his ilk is the fact they was awful at what they did and hence being in jail.

So how on earth did somebody like him manage to pull of this crime with 3 people and not get caught when he screwed up with one victim?

 

[MooseMeMuch]

The problem with Robert Craig Cox or somebody or his ilk is the fact they was awful at what they did and hence being in jail.

So how on earth did somebody like him manage to pull of this crime with 3 people and not get caught when he screwed up with one victim?

Good point!
He wasn't/isn't coordinated enough. Cox needs to find another occupation. Lol
I also do not believe he murdered that girl in Florida His sentence was tossed out by the FL court which was/is rare in and of itself.
IMO he shoulda stuck w/ the Rangering. What an idiot.
And I also, IMO, have difficulty believing Garrison or Carnahan did this. There again, it would have been a one-person job and that's not how those bums rolled.
Thankful they're ALL in prison.