MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #10

[SLWV-A]

Hello, all! First I would like to say that I greatly admire everyone's insight into all these cases! Good job! Regarding the set of 20 pictures...#5, AB with knife, did you notice that in the "mock" attack the person is being choke held while AB is pretending to stab? This is eery to me...makes me wonder if she did, in fact, act alone?

 

[Melanie]

The second image you added is the one that looks similar to what I thought it was. A meat cleaver. I didn't know they made such things or that people (especially teen girls) would wear a charm like that.

Man oh man, and noone noticed? Do the adults think this is a goth thing? My mama would have pulled it off my neck in 2 seconds flat. I'm just shocked...but then again, a lot of things are shocking me these days.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

Here's a link to help us understand the whys of cutting.

http://kidshealth.org/teen/your_mind/feeling_sad/cutting.html

Cutting isn't done to glean attention from people. It is often a release for strong emotional problems/issues one does not have the ability to deal with in a rational way.

I could say so much more, but I would just ask everyone participating in this thread to be sympathetic to those suffering from mental illness. Calling someone nuttier than a squirrel's bowel movements is so beyond necessary.

Let's not forget there could be that one child reading here, having the same problems Alyssa suffers. Let's not let him/her believe they are crazy, nuts, etc. Alyssa is mentally ill. The only definition that should be used to describe it as such.

 

[Gray]

Do all cutters hide the evidence? Or are there some who really just don't care, but aren't doing it for attention?

I would think if it's showing like that, it's for attention. But I've never cut.

I know someone who cut and it was something that was done more or less in the heat of the moment.... and it wasn't specifically done in a methodical way. It was a release of frustration and anger and self-hatred... done when extremely emotional. Then there was regret after the fact. I wasn't there whenever she did it, this is just what I was told.

This just seems.... attention-getting. IDK.

 

[LogicalMinds]

Alyssa may be mentally ill...but she is also evil IMHO>>> I have zero sympathy for her
To lump others who have mental problems in with her is wrong


I fault the kids, teachers, grandparents, SHRINKS and anyone who dealt with her for not getting her help...

she may be mentally ill but she is not going to get by on an "insanity" plea...she knows right from wrong, she simply WANTED to do wrong

She told her friend she wanted to "kill someone"....and friend did nothing.
I think kids (and teachers, etc) have to start taking these sort of things seriously...didn't we learn that from Columbine and countless other cases???

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

Do all cutters hide the evidence? Or are there some who really just don't care, but aren't doing it for attention?

I would think if it's showing like that, it's for attention. But I've never cut.

I know someone who cut and it was something that was done more or less in the heat of the moment.... and it wasn't specifically done in a methodical way. It was a release of frustration and anger and self-hatred... done when extremely emotional. Then there was regret after the fact. I wasn't there whenever she did it, this is just what I was told.

This just seems.... attention-getting. IDK.

If people already knew she was a cutter there was no need for her to hide it. Or... she could have just been so ill that it didn't matter to her if people saw her scars.

I don't see her as showing it off as much as others. Looks to me like she attempted to keep it covered with her plastic bracelets.

 

[Gray]

If people already knew she was a cutter there was no need for her to hide it. Or... she could have just been so ill that it didn't matter to her if people saw her scars.

I don't see her as showing it off as much as others. Looks to me like she attempted to keep it covered with her plastic bracelets.

I did notice that she had bracelets covering them in most photos.

 

[JLMcKenna83]

Cutting isn't done to glean attention from people. It is often a release for strong emotional problems/issues one does not have the ability to deal with in a rational way.

RSBM...

I do have a firm grasp on the inns and outs of cutting.. however.. There has been many cases where it is the "thing to do" at least here in our area. Kids see other kids doing it and they don't completely understand why. It can also be seen as a form of self mutilation.. (mixed in with branding, piercings, tattoos..) I'm not saying this was AB's case....

What I am saying is that what I observed on her arm does not really fit in with what my personal experience is with this behavior.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

Alyssa may be mentally ill...but she is also evil IMHO>>> I have zero sympathy for her
To lump others who have mental problems in with her is wrong


I fault the kids, teachers, grandparents, SHRINKS and anyone who dealt with her for not getting her help...

she may be mentally ill but she is not going to get by on an "insanity" plea...she knows right from wrong, she simply WANTED to do wrong

She told her friend she wanted to "kill someone"....and friend did nothing.
I think kids (and teachers, etc) have to start taking these sort of things seriously...didn't we learn that from Columbine and countless other cases???

I disagree, Alyssa is indeed a mentally ill person/child. She's not being lumped into anything. She has a confirmed history of mental health issues (ie cutting) and a confirmed history with mental health professionals. I'm sorry you have no sympathy, I do considering it's another life wasted when it didn't need to be.

Alyssa is obviously a very ill child. It saddens me those around her didn't see the escalating warning signs. It likely would have saved both of these childrens lives.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

RSBM...

I do have a firm grasp on the inns and outs of cutting.. however.. There has been many cases where it is the "thing to do" at least here in our area. Kids see other kids doing it and they don't completely understand why. It can also be seen as a form of self mutilation.. (mixed in with branding, piercings, tattoos..) I'm not saying this was AB's case....

What I am saying is that what I observed on her arm does not really fit in with what my personal experience is with this behavior.

I could understand that if there were no history of mental health professionals in Alyssa's life. If I'm understanding things correctly, she was receiving services of some sort.

Please note: I am not attacking any persons personal experiences, as I have only my own to draw from. However, I will not sit quietly while others accuse this child of only attention seeking.

IMO - If ever there was a child screaming out something is wrong, it most certainly was Alyssa.

 

[JLMcKenna83]

IMO - If ever there was a child screaming out something is wrong, it most certainly was Alyssa.

ITA.

Maybe because she was so attention starved when she was younger because of her deadbeat parents that she cried out for attention in anyway she possibly could. With her friends, her relatives, her teachers, anyone who would finally notice her.

 

[Imjen]

Here's a link to help us understand the whys of cutting.

http://kidshealth.org/teen/your_mind/feeling_sad/cutting.html

Cutting isn't done to glean attention from people. It is often a release for strong emotional problems/issues one does not have the ability to deal with in a rational way.

I could say so much more, but I would just ask everyone participating in this thread to be sympathetic to those suffering from mental illness. Calling someone nuttier than a squirrel's bowel movements is so beyond necessary.

Let's not forget there could be that one child reading here, having the same problems Alyssa suffers. Let's not let him/her believe they are crazy, nuts, etc. Alyssa is mentally ill. The only definition that should be used to describe it as such.

I wish I could thank you a thousand times for the part of this post I've respectfully bolded.

ETA Also, thanks for the link - my reading assignment for tomorrow.

 

[badhorsie]

Here's a link to help us understand the whys of cutting.

http://kidshealth.org/teen/your_mind/feeling_sad/cutting.html

Cutting isn't done to glean attention from people. It is often a release for strong emotional problems/issues one does not have the ability to deal with in a rational way.

I could say so much more, but I would just ask everyone participating in this thread to be sympathetic to those suffering from mental illness. Calling someone nuttier than a squirrel's bowel movements is so beyond necessary.

Let's not forget there could be that one child reading here, having the same problems Alyssa suffers. Let's not let him/her believe they are crazy, nuts, etc. Alyssa is mentally ill. The only definition that should be used to describe it as such.

From my own personal experience, when you are churned up with bad , negative thoughts in your mind, the act of cutting brings about an enormous sense of deep peace and relief when the blood flows- but then you are left with some way of concealing it.
I haven't done it for a long time now...

 

[MDATCA]

All I'm saying is, if I was the mother of the girl who is being mock-stabbed, I would be LIVID upon seeing that picture.

I think my feelings would be all over the board upon seeing that. Angry, scared, thankful, and even sad for what AB became.

 

[MDATCA]

Could pic #20 be the photo the girl with the camera took?

It is possible. Is the flooring the same? It is hard to tell the floor in pic 20. The windows look like they could be the same type. The shirt could be a match. The only thing is that AB is dressed up while the othes are not. But if it is a more recent pic maybe she was at the rec center/church hall with GMa to pick her brothers up. A camp out situation would explain a lot about the appearance of the girls. The girls in the pic look to be about the twins age. If they had been on a retreat it would explain why they are not polished up like AB and why they would be weaing the clothing they are. Who looks their best when camping?

 

[MDATCA]

Does anyone have a guess as to what the charm is on the necklace in pics 1 and 2 (you can see it better in pic 2)? I have a guess, but what I'm thinking seems odd to me. I just want to see if anyone has the same idea as I do.

I can't be sue but it looks like it could be a knife pendant. Something like these:

http://www.notempire.com/images/uploads/chop.jpg

http://www.bestofferbuy.com/images/large/jewelry/J1274_LRG.JPG

http://www.a.80spurple.com/shop/80spurple/images/products/274x411/han-cholo/han_hcp69_sil-2.jpg

I notice in pics 6 and 7 she is wearing a scarf. Even though I think the one she used was the one EO was wearing it is possible that AB did bring one of her own. I don't think the scarf used to strangle Elizabeth was silk as in the actual expensive fabric but rather a silky material. I know I have some and so do my daughters. You can get some nice ones at AC Moore the craft store for fairly cheap but sometimes you can get ones that look vey high quality. I doubt that LE was reading labels for fiber content when it was listed that a silk scarf was found at the scene.

As I was looking for knife pendants I noticed that they are mostly labeled as chef knife pendants. Although I don't think that is who most of them are purchased by. I have seen handcuffs and other things like that at Hot Topic so I wouldn't be surprised if they carried a knife and axe ones.

 

[Elley Mae]

Insane yes she is, crazy yes she is, Sane people don't kill themselves or other people, but Defense Lawyers use the Insanity plea to get a lowered sentence and this is were I have a problem. I also feel that she and many others should not be in public school. Alyssa should have been in a troubled school setting, but I don't know that they even exist anymore. There are many more out there just like her. According to reports that have been made she was hospitalized for her problems was going to church and got good grades in school. The house she lived in appeared to be nice and she seemed to have all she wanted for a 15 year old and she still was not happy. I hope that she does get life without parole. jmo

 

[droptoplesabre]

I can't be sue but it looks like it could be a knife pendant. Something like these:

http://www.notempire.com/images/uploads/chop.jpg

http://www.bestofferbuy.com/images/large/jewelry/J1274_LRG.JPG

http://www.a.80spurple.com/shop/80spurple/images/products/274x411/han-cholo/han_hcp69_sil-2.jpg

I notice in pics 6 and 7 she is wearing a scarf. Even though I think the one she used was the one EO was wearing it is possible that AB did bring one of her own. I don't think the scarf used to strangle Elizabeth was silk as in the actual expensive fabric but rather a silky material. I know I have some and so do my daughters. You can get some nice ones at AC Moore the craft store for fairly cheap but sometimes you can get ones that look vey high quality. I doubt that LE was reading labels for fiber content when it was listed that a silk scarf was found at the scene.

As I was looking for knife pendants I noticed that they are mostly labeled as chef knife pendants. Although I don't think that is who most of them are purchased by. I have seen handcuffs and other things like that at Hot Topic so I wouldn't be surprised if they carried a knife and axe ones.

Mornin everbody..i missed alot over the last day or so..the pendant,,it definately looks like a meat clever to me...i also been thinking on "how a girl ABs size overpowered and killed a girl about the same size" i read elizabeth was 5'2" and 108 lbs,,thats comperable to a 15 Y/O girl,,(i think anyway),,here's my thot...JMO ofcorse..AB lured elizabeth to the woods,and seen she wore the scarf..then decided to strangle her, to keep blood off herself or whatever reason..but when she grabbed her,she freaked out,and adrinalin kicked in,and AB didn't get the job done..so, she pulls out her knife,as she previously planned to use it anyway, and stabs elizabeth,,which instantly brings her to her knees,,then, she can easily get behind her and grab her hair,and slit her throat,,sorry if i sound morbid,,but i'm trying to understand this,as it eats at me every day...
1 more thing,,maybe 2.. the news said they have her on 24 hr suicide watch,,could it possibly be that she is beginning to see the impact of what she did? maybe there realy is some little bit of her left, I think her ATTY will probably use this to get her sentance reduced.,however,,i still think she should spend the rest of her life in prison..i also think she very well might have had help,as i seriously dont think she could do all that she's reported doing in the time span givin..JMO,,again,,JMO.

 

[Csquare]

Does anyone have a guess as to what the charm is on the necklace in pics 1 and 2 (you can see it better in pic 2)? I have a guess, but what I'm thinking seems odd to me. I just want to see if anyone has the same idea as I do.

From what I can tell it looks like a meat clever.

 

[raisincharlie]

Strongly disagree. I found it enlightening, particularly the part where she mentions that Alyssa regularly hit her little sister. A fifteen year-old beating up on a six year-old? Frankly, I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that AB dug the second grave with her sister in mind.

I agree, there were some informational bits within the interview. An interesting look at AB as seen through the eyes of those around her. They didn't seem to think she was mentally ill. Mental illness does not come and go, turned on or off like a light switch. If AB had such powers, she is one of a kind. Her friends didn't think she was mentally ill and neither do I.