MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #11

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"But even if Richardson succeeds in convicting Bustamante of first-degree murder, it's still possible she will end up in the care of the state Division of Youth Services.

That's because Missouri is one of 22 states to have what is called a "dual jurisdiction" system. Under state law, if Bustamante was found guilty, a judge could consider keeping her under the care of the juvenile system — which is heavy on rehabilitation — until she is 21. At that point, another hearing would be held to determine if she was ready to be released, or sent to adult prison for the remainder of her sentence.

The "Missouri Model" is praised around the nation because its emphasis on community-based rehabilitation has produced very low recidivism rates, even among the violent criminals — most of them boys — sentenced through the juvenile system.

It's a system that works, says Harvard University professor Julie Boatright Wilson, because it balances therapy with the rights of victims and concerns about keeping the community safe.

Wilson, who last year was part of a review of Missouri's juvenile justice system that earned the prestigious Annie E. Casey Innovations Award, said that programs that focus on rehabilitation for juveniles work because those who make it through the program don't repeat their crimes.

Of the 46 juveniles who have completed the state's rehabilitation program as part of a dual jurisdiction sentence, only 10 have ended up going back to prison, said Heberle. That's nearly an 80 percent success rate, which is much higher than traditional corrections programs."

I quoted your 2nd paragraph & paraphrased the 3rd in an earlier post of mine, I’m not seeking recognition for that like I beat you to the draw or something, rather I’m applauding you & thanking God that someone has the aptitude to understand just what the heck is going on here & how the dual jurisdictional system is structured & works…

Thank you in exponential terms.

Peace be with you
 
perhaps the constitution should be "revamped". if it's a "crime" for our kids to pray before lunch in schools, or praise god in public, shouldn't it be a crime to "praise" a murder of a young girl? or that murderer? JMO, but it seems to be a little one sided when it comes to whats fair, as to who we idolize, or praise.

MY BOLD

Let's leave the constitution alone for now, and stay on topic on this forum. And BTW, any student who wishes to say grace at lunchtime in our public schools is perfectly free to do so . . .
 
perhaps the constitution should be "revamped". if it's a "crime" for our kids to pray before lunch in schools, or praise god in public, shouldn't it be a crime to "praise" a murder of a young girl? or that murderer? JMO, but it seems to be a little one sided when it comes to whats fair, as to who we idolize, or praise.


In trial it seems to me the killer has more rights than the victim. Everyone is so careful that the killers rights aren't walked on...it just irks me. Personally I believe the whole judicial system needs to be revamped. I'm tired of seeing the murderers butts kissed in every case.

To my mind there is right and there is wrong. It is wrong to have a tribute to a 15 yr old killer on the internet. Add a killer of any age. Leave that tribute up and if down the line the person who made the tribute commits a horrible crime because she also wanted to see what it would be like to kill another person...everyone and their uncle including LE,UTube, and us will be shaking their heads and saying "why was such a horrible tribule left up" or "how could we have missed where this kid was headed" whine whine. Right now is the time to step forward and contact UTube. I think LE and the parents should be checking out the kids that think that tribute is cool. She/He might be your neighbor and you aren't even aware of it.
 
perhaps the constitution should be "revamped". if it's a "crime" for our kids to pray before lunch in schools, or praise god in public, shouldn't it be a crime to "praise" a murder of a young girl? or that murderer? JMO, but it seems to be a little one sided when it comes to whats fair, as to who we idolize, or praise.

In trial it seems to me the killer has more rights than the victim. Everyone is so careful that the killers rights aren't walked on...it just irks me. Personally I believe the whole judicial system needs to be revamped. I'm tired of seeing the murderers butts kissed in every case.

To my mind there is right and there is wrong. It is wrong to have a tribute to a 15 yr old killer on the internet. Add a killer of any age. Leave that tribute up and if down the line the person who made the tribute commits a horrible crime because she also wanted to see what it would be like to kill another person...everyone and their uncle including LE,UTube, and us will be shaking their heads and saying "why was such a horrible tribule left up" or "how could we have missed where this kid was headed" whine whine. Right now is the time to step forward and contact UTube. I think LE and the parents should be checking out the kids that think that tribute is cool. She/He might be your neighbor and you aren't even aware of it.

You clearly state this as your opinion. And you are free to have an opinion. But that does not give you a right to censor other peoples opinions.
 
In trial it seems to me the killer has more rights than the victim. Everyone is so careful that the killers rights aren't walked on...it just irks me. Personally I believe the whole judicial system needs to be revamped. I'm tired of seeing the murderers butts kissed in every case.

To my mind there is right and there is wrong. It is wrong to have a tribute to a 15 yr old killer on the internet. Add a killer of any age. Leave that tribute up and if down the line the person who made the tribute commits a horrible crime because she also wanted to see what it would be like to kill another person...everyone and their uncle including LE,UTube, and us will be shaking their heads and saying "why was such a horrible tribule left up" or "how could we have missed where this kid was headed" whine whine. Right now is the time to step forward and contact UTube. I think LE and the parents should be checking out the kids that think that tribute is cool. She/He might be your neighbor and you aren't even aware of it.

BBM

What would LE do? could you please point me to the federal statutory provision that makes it a crime to make a youtube video that portrays alleged criminals in a positive light?
 
If you spends a few hours on youtube, it is absolutely amazing/disgusting/ridiculous (take your pick) the amount of garbage and stupidity that is out there. So we pick and choose what we want to watch and ignore the rest. This, too, will die down, more quickly with the least attention possible paid to it. This child (emocuppycake) is now offering to give total strangers who visit her site her real name and town so that they may refer her for evaluation! How incredibly dangerous that could be to her. She also states that she has a mental disorder, so she is most likely in therapy already. But we see that being in therapy doesn't nullify the dangers of homicidal intent - Alyssa is a case in point. She was in a program that required heavy monitoring and she still lethally struck out. Because she did not respond to repeated therapeutic measures and supervision, IMHO she needs to be locked up somewhere.

I fully support our constitutionally upheld rights to free speech, even on youtube or other internet sites. What a slippery slope it would indeed be if we were to censor our citizens for unpopular views!
 
Andreas I think they are reacting emotionally and they dont consider the LONG TERM consequences of what they are suggesting.

Giving all that power to LE and the State just because you dont like a youtube video is DANGEROUS and extremely SHORT-SIGHTED.

JMO.
 
The attitude today towards rapist, murderers, pedophiles by the medical field is that they can be helped, but statistics that I have seen don't prove that. To many use the (I had a bad childhood defense) I don't buy that either. States have different degrees of punishment for the same crime which I don't agree with. I remember about 30 years ago a man had raped a minor female child, he got 6 years and in the same paper 3 men got 20 years for vandalizing a church. Lots of laws need to be changed before this will ever be fixed, and teenagers have to be held accountable for their actions. This was a long thought out cold calculated murder that was committed by a soon to be 16 year old female, Elizabeth never stood a chance. reminds me of a case in 1977, Stuart Kreiner-murdered 3 young girls two 8 yr olds and a 10 year old, all stabbed over 40 times each, plea deal of 15 years taken. He committed suicide in 1982.
 
I would also like to comment on those who come down so hard on those of us who are concerned with potecting the RIGHTS OF THE ACCUSED.

You need to understand that the STATE has UNLIMITED POWER AND RESOURCES at its disposal which they can use to make their case against and prove it in a court of law.

YOU, the accused, no matter how wealthy you may be, DO NOT have unlimited resources at your disposal to defend yourself therefore it is important that the STATE EITHER PROVE YOUR GUILT or you walk, it really doesnt matter if you did the crime or not what matters is if the state can prove it, if they cannot, with all the UNLIMITED RESCOURCES they have at their disposal, then you should walk, thats the only way we can protect those who may be innocent and wrongfully accused from being wrongfully imprisoned.

I hope none of you ever need one but when the day comes that you do, you will find out the importance of a good criminal defense attorney IN A HURRY!

Just ask Rush Limbaugh who used to go on and on about how unethical and repulsive criminal defense attorneys and the ACLU are, then when he got in to trouble for his drug abuse who did he turn to and later admit that without them he wouldnt have known what to do? You got it criminal defense attorneys and the ACLU.

The rights of the accused MUST BE PROTECTED whether you like it or not it is those of us who dedicate our lives to protecting the accused that prevent this nation from becoming Nazi Germany where there was NO HABEAS CORPUS and they could knock your door down and take you in the middle of the night accuse you of a crime and nobody would ever hear from you again.

This country cannot do that and it is criminal defense attorneys who work everyday to make sure it never can or will!
 
Andreas I think they are reacting emotionally and they dont consider the LONG TERM consequences of what they are suggesting.

Giving all that power to LE and the State just because you dont like a youtube video is DANGEROUS and extremely SHORT-SIGHTED.

JMO.

Yeah, it's a combination of emotional reactions and not knowing what they're talking about. I looked at the video and it didn't seem like a tribute but more of a call to stop the "torches and pitchforks" mentality that's exhibited towards this case.

She says, " I believe that she does deserve to be trialed as a adult and with first degree murder. I also believe that she should be sentenced to life in prision," (sic). Her opinion is that people should stop screaming about "wishing she would fry" and taking pleasure in her suffering, because she was clearly mentally unstable. Whether or not you agree with that is fine, but she's certainly entitled to her opinion.

Now a bunch of internet all-stars are flaming a 16 year old girl on you tube. Great . . .
 
Yeah, it's a combination of emotional reactions and not knowing what they're talking about. I looked at the video and it didn't seem like a tribute but more of a call to stop the "torches and pitchforks" mentality that's exhibited towards this case.

She says, " I believe that she does deserve to be trialed as a adult and with first degree murder. I also believe that she should be sentenced to life in prision," (sic). Her opinion is that people should stop screaming about "wishing she would fry" and taking pleasure in her suffering, because she was clearly mentally unstable. Whether or not you agree with that is fine, but she's certainly entitled to her opinion.

Now a bunch of internet all-stars are flaming a 16 year old girl on you tube. Great . . .

Its a world gone mad and it really helps me understand how things like the Salem Witchhunts really happened. It doesnt take much to set people off in to an emotional frenzy where they are calling for people's heads. Reminds me of all those Roman citizens cheering on for more people to be thrown to the lions just so they would all have something to make them forget how miserable their own lives were.

What really pisses me off is the judges who agree to charge kids like her as an adult and do so NOT BASED ON LAW or any legal matter whatsoever but do so only to make the hoards of pitchfork carrying citizens in the community happy.
 
I hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving :)

Does anyone have any links to publish facts on the "2 hours of therapy a day" AB was supposed to be receiving? I have read so many different stories about the counseling and amount of counseling AB was receiving, that I'd like to get that part straight -- IMO therapy for hurting one's self would be very different fom therapy for homocidal tendencies --- what doc would prescribe prozac to a girl who was fairly vocal about wanting to hurt or kill others?

And why wouldn't these health professionals so involved in a young girl's life not know about her large internet trail? From what I have read about AB sneaking out to a concert 2 hours away, sleeping in the woods overnight without permission, tons of time spent on the internet, time spent on producing videos, never seemingly with an adult in sight, but more importantly nobody seemed to know of AB OR her 7 year old half sister OR Elizabeth's whereabouts for hours the night of the murderI really do not see how there could have been much adult supervision at all, or time for "2 hours of therapy a day" -- and surely this therapist should lose his or her license, IMO!
 
ALL too often I see comments on forums like these "lock them up and throw away the key," " fry them!," "I hope this monster gets what they deserve in prison," and then the classic "I hope Bubba rapes them in prison and gives them what they deserve."

I must say that comments like this disturb me more than the actual crimes these people have committed.

Lets be honest and clear, this type of herd, mob and hoard mentality is MUCH, MUCH more dangerous and a threat to us all than any single deranged criminal walking around on the streets! Some people really need to think about what they are saying because what they say often says alot MORE ABOUT THEM than it does the criminals they are railing against.


I can assure you one thing if there is one single profession in this nation that is standing between freedom and fascism and fighting every step of the way to ensure America will always be America, it is criminal defense attorneys and not prosecutors or politicans or LE. You can take that to the bank.
 
Yeah, it's a combination of emotional reactions and not knowing what they're talking about. I looked at the video and it didn't seem like a tribute but more of a call to stop the "torches and pitchforks" mentality that's exhibited towards this case.

She says, " I believe that she does deserve to be trialed as a adult and with first degree murder. I also believe that she should be sentenced to life in prision," (sic). Her opinion is that people should stop screaming about "wishing she would fry" and taking pleasure in her suffering, because she was clearly mentally unstable. Whether or not you agree with that is fine, but she's certainly entitled to her opinion.

Now a bunch of internet all-stars are flaming a 16 year old girl on you tube. Great . . .

Thank you for this quote (I SO appreciate posts with links or other evidence provided to back up claims) -- I have seen this youtube screen name along with cries to shut this video down of days now -- and silly me just took the word that it was a tribute to AB, so I did not bother to go and view it and add to its popularity --:)
 
Its a world gone mad and it really helps me understand how things like the Salem Witchhunts really happened. It doesnt take much to set people off in to an emotional frenzy where they are calling for people's heads. Reminds me of all those Roman citizens cheering on for more people to be thrown to the lions just so they would all have something to make them forget how miserable their own lives were.

What really pisses me off is the judges who agree to charge kids like her as an adult and do so NOT BASED ON LAW or any legal matter whatsoever but do so only to make the hoards of pitchfork carrying citizens in the community happy.

I'm not commenting on the AB case yet as I haven't found a reliable source of the actual facts of this case. They seem murky..
What I find disgusting are the Grown adults that are directly attacking a sixteen year-old, this emocuppycakes girl, online on her youtube account for expressing an opnion.
 
Thank you for this quote (I SO appreciate posts with links or other evidence provided to back up claims) -- I have seen this youtube screen name along with cries to shut this video down of days now -- and silly me just took the word that it was a tribute to AB, so I did not bother to go and view it and add to its popularity --:)

Seriously. Watch it and see what the screaming is about. Also, see your fellow WS peers that are flaming a sixteen year old girl via youtube comments.
 
YouTube should grow some cojones and add some morals...to allow a tribute to any murderer is simply wrong IMHO

YouTube is a private company, not a state sponsored arena for "free speech"
 
Yeah, it's a combination of emotional reactions and not knowing what they're talking about. I looked at the video and it didn't seem like a tribute but more of a call to stop the "torches and pitchforks" mentality that's exhibited towards this case.

She says, " I believe that she does deserve to be trialed as a adult and with first degree murder. I also believe that she should be sentenced to life in prision," (sic). Her opinion is that people should stop screaming about "wishing she would fry" and taking pleasure in her suffering, because she was clearly mentally unstable. Whether or not you agree with that is fine, but she's certainly entitled to her opinion.

Now a bunch of internet all-stars are flaming a 16 year old girl on you tube. Great . . .

thank you..this puts an intirely new look on this U-tube thing,,i havent read it myself,but i was only reacting to what i read on here,,maybe that was my own mistake.
 
YouTube should grow some cojones and add some morals...to allow a tribute to any murderer is simply wrong IMHO

YouTube is a private company, not a state sponsored arena for "free speech"

As has been shown beyond dispute it is NOT a tribute, it is a 16 year old girl expessing her opinion.

I bet 99% people flaming the video didnt even WATCH IT, they HEARD from someone else that it was a 'tribute' and immediately went in to HIVE MIND MODE and started flaming the video like the good little lynch mob puppets they are.

6 million of my people were slaughtered and gassed because of such a mob mentality, so yea, it does piss me off.
 
I accidently landed on some flaming by following another link here and I am not going to make the same mistake again, but thanks for the warning -- I actually try to avoid commenting until I can comment on topic and on things we DO KNOW about this case -- and yes, there are not many reliable sources at all and not really any "facts" that have one incarnation except that AB did commit this crime :(

Most of my posting on this case has been in an effort to find answers to my questions about the adults involved in this case, and I know that it is futile-- as AB is going to be tried as an adult -- and I guess that waives all responsiblity for the adults responsible for this child

but here I go again---

I want to know why a 7 and 9 year old were virtually unsupervised for hours
I want to know why a mentally unstable 15 year old was left unsupervised for hours
I want to know how there were possibly 4 adults at the residence from where Elizabeth went missing at the time she went missing
I want to know how a crime like this could have happened at a home where adults were paid to watch children
I want to know how no adults knew of AB's internet postings
I want to know why her therapists or counselors did not know she carried a knife and posted pictures on Facebook of her fake stabbing another child
I want to know why a JOURNALISM teacher and director of the HS newspaper just happened to commit suicide the morning before the school authorities called an emergency meeting on this case

okay I'll stop :(
 
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