MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #4

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I don't think there's any way this case is going to trial. I also don't think there's any way she'll be tried as a juvenile. She's 15, and from the videos/webpages she seems to act her age. Many states charge as an adult at 16. If there's sufficient evidence this crime was premeditated, I'd say the only way she'd be charged as a juvenile is if there was strong evidence of a mental defect that caused her to act much younger than her age. And I am no psychologist/neurologist, but from her pages, she seems age appropriate. History of violence and even "mental illness" (depression, etc.) doesn't counteract that she acts like an adult. And by age appropriate I mean, for example, if she were 15 but she acted like an 8 year old - reading at that age level, being interested in things young children are (dolls, toys, etc.). I mean real stunted development.

I think her lawyer knows there's no way, unless all of the rumors & "premeditation" from LE are false, that she'll be charged as a juvenile. BUT I think he's playing up the "she's a child" aspect in order to have some leverage with the state to both: get the proceedings sealed/gag ordered, and to try to cast doubt on the state's case. In plea negotiations (which are usually done even eventually there is no plea offer) the defense is going to want to press the fact that there could be one bleeding-heart liberal on the jury who believes in rehabilitation and won't convict a 15 year old to life in prison. Even if this is a grotesque case, there's always the worry that one person will think she has a chance to "change."

I think eventually there will be a plea giving her something like 25 years - life in prison. Although, if that's on the table, AB might want to just chance it and go for a trial.

"Troubled youth" are a hard sell, not legally, but for jurors. Even in the worst crimes for some people its very hard to deal with the "personal" responsibility that YOU as a juror are putting a 15 year old in prison for the rest of her life. The only way to really counteract that burden is when prosecutors are very careful to explain that it's not a choice jurors are making, but rather the law requires them to render a guilty (or not guilty) verdict if the evidence meets a certain threshold. But personally I think its just legal fiction, people feel responsible no matter what.
 
It was already posted, should be back on page 19 if its still here. I think some stuff "vanished between page 19 and 20, but i had alread read it so I didn't pay attention to what.
 
Are we allowed to post Youtube accounts/videos? I ask cause someone posted a link to AB's Youtube account over on IS. Don't want to post if not allowed. But I guess you can just go there and get the link yourself. I guess this account will go bye bye soon just like the others.

Someone posted it a bit ago. Sad and sick.
 
Keep in mind that the central Missouri area is very "small town." It is not as transient as many communities and there are many families who have lived here and have known each other for five or six generations.

The disadvantage of being "small town" is that everybody knows your business. The advantage is that they will all be there in a nanosecond to help if you need them.

I grew up in rural Missouri, southeast of Kansas City, in a very small town. Bibliophile, I totally understand what you are saying.
 
Here is my take for what its worth I think she had neglectful, terrible parents. Dad in prison, mom been in and out of jail for petty things all of this girls life she has known turmoil that most adults don't know. I use to work for a Pediatrician that told me by the time a child is 3 they are pretty much formed as to the adult they will become, that is why its so important to nurture these kids esp when so young. I doubt she got very much attention or nurturing. By the time the GM & GP took over it was to late. They are older and probably looking forward to retiring not raising another family.Not saying they didn't do their best but probably not as involved as they Could have been. She is a sociopath I believe and needs to be put away so she can't harm anyone else I don't know what makes those sort of people tick but I don't want to find out. I hope her parents are proud of the life they showed these children they should go down right along with her. What age do you consider old? The grandmother is the same age now to her 15 yr old granddaughter as I was to my 15 yr old daughter. lol
 
At what age does a human become responsible for their own actions?
Is it 18?
Is it 21?
25?
32?
At what age do we STOP blaming/questioning a childs upbringing, parents, video games, friends, music, movies?
I mean if I did something so unthinkable, no one would blame it on the way I grew up, or games I played, music I listen or movies I watch. Would they??
Where is that threshold? and why.
 
Are we allowed to post Youtube accounts/videos? I ask cause someone posted a link to AB's Youtube account over on IS. Don't want to post if not allowed. But I guess you can just go there and get the link yourself. I guess this account will go bye bye soon just like the others.

What is IS?
 
Are we allowed to post Youtube accounts/videos? I ask cause someone posted a link to AB's Youtube account over on IS. Don't want to post if not allowed. But I guess you can just go there and get the link yourself. I guess this account will go bye bye soon just like the others.

No. Don't post it. TY.

Hoppy
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