MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #5

[polywog]

Kids being kids behave irresponsibly and impulsively all the time. That much is understood. I could see this crime happening out of a moment of rage and AB lashed out at Elizabeth, but so many have alleged the gravesite was prepared days before, which makes it horribly premeditated.

There have been crimes like this for years, incomprehensible to normal people. The more I think about this one the more I recall murders being done by kids that seem to have some lack of empathy, not because of rage or impulse. I can remember a few that happened when I was a kid in Ohio, and then more recently in the news that awful murder of the two professors in NH 4 or so years ago... one of the boys had guilt and regret, but the other had none whatsoever, and he came from a loving stable family, was an honors student, etc. Also that awful senseless murder of that woman in VT a few months ago... one of the boys, the ringleader, just seems to have No guilty feelings or remorse.... also from a good family. I mean, look at Jeffery Dahmer, good family, but something was terribly skewed. It's odd to see girls do this, but I can think of some cases over the years. I can't help thinking that the Prozac might have pushed something over the edge for AB, I feel it's risky to give SSRI drugs to teens and children.

 

[Jules71]

There have been crimes like this for years, incomprehensible to normal people. The more I think about this one the more I recall murders being done by kids that seem to have some lack of empathy, not because of rage or impulse. I can remember a few that happened when I was a kid in Ohio, and then more recently in the news that awful murder of the two professors in NH 4 or so years ago... one of the boys had guilt and regret, but the other had none whatsoever, and he came from a loving stable family, was an honors student, etc. Also that awful senseless murder of that woman in VT a few months ago... one of the boys, the ringleader, just seems to have No guilty feelings or remorse.... also from a good family. I mean, look at Jeffery Dahmer, good family, but something was terribly skewed. It's odd to see girls do this, but I can think of some cases over the years. I can't help thinking that the Prozac might have pushed something over the edge for AB, I feel it's risky to give SSRI drugs to teens and children.

I am reading online and trying to find out more about SSRI's and suicidal/homicidal ideation. I wonder is there any history of bi-polar disorder in AB's family. I think SSRI's or stimulants for ADHD can make that way worse. Actually I wonder now if AB had any impulse control issues, ADHD, Oppositional Defiance, Conduct Disorder, etc. I think if she was a drug/alcohol baby - that could come into play also. Parenting is one thing. Chemical imbalance is another.

 

[Csquare]

Yes, I agree with you. My lil friend went in at 15, was certified, and was placed in Max Sec at 16...crazy. He has earned the priviledge of being in the honor wing. Recently he got sick. Does Jeff City have facilities for sick prisoners? He is now 29 btw...

yes they have an imfirmary. What did he do and how much longer does he have?

 

[Csquare]

Reactive attachment disorder is one illness that is very difficult. RAD children act out and hate authority and rules. It is an illness that is not discussed very much.

 

[polywog]

I just think that young brains are so undeveloped, that putting kids on SSRI drugs is a crap shoot. I have taken zoloft for several years now with great results for low grade depression I suffered for years, but it was a trip adjusting to it, not pleasant, and I was adult when I started. Luckily I had a good psycho-pharmacologist who knew exactly what to expect as I adjusted, but I think they're over prescribed, and also prescribed by general practitioners who don't really know what they're doing. I also thought about what AB's mother might have been doing drug and or alcohol-wise when she carried her, but it still seems like there are just some people born this way, like the people I described above. Actually, the kid from VT was adopted, so it's hard to say what his bio-mother was doing when pregnant. It's all just so tragic.

 

[MCDRAW]

I don't know either family, don't even live in that state. What I do know is that kids have changed and I don't really know why. I do know that times have changed and what 15 year old's are doing now I never would have done. Talking back to their parents and elders, not wanting to get an education. The one thing that I have noticed is that kids that do what they do today is not so much a problem with illegal drugs, but a problem that seems to stem from there adolescent years. The person that is accused of this horrible crime is being looked at as a "child", she is not a child, she is a product of her environment. Not putting blame on the Gp's but they were not there for her, if that makes sense. Some ppl just don't pay attention,and evidently they did not see what was about to come.

And some parents pay attention and they still miss the signs.

 

[Csquare]

There was someone who told me that he thought he had adhd when he was a kid but his parents beat it out of him. I am 46 and we had no cell phones, cable/sat tv/ dvd's or that like to BABYSIT us. I was raised by my foster Mom who was almost 60 when I was born. I assure you backtalk or disrespect was not tolerated. I am not sure if anyone else has had to make that long walk to "get me a switch" but trust me it is not fun. Today parents want to make excuses for everything instead of looking in the mirror first.

 

[calamityjane]

yes they have an imfirmary. What did he do and how much longer does he have?

He took the life of a minor. He was also a minor. He has LWOP. I have to say, he is different now and doesn't play the politics of prison. So many do as you know. I was scammed by a guy I used to visit in prison. I think the reason this case is so close to me is that my lil friend was also 15 and it didn't make any more sense than this one. I have a feeling AB will get LWOP as well, don't you?

 

[Csquare]

Yes I do. I also feel they are going for the insanity defense.
As far as scamming go, I can't tell you how many women these inmates were "in love with". They take them for their money and leave them.
I feel for your friend. I hope he has wised up. The prison system can chew up these youngsters and make them even more hardend.

 

[Isabella]

There was someone who told me that he thought he had adhd when he was a kid but his parents beat it out of him. I am 46 and we had no cell phones, cable/sat tv/ dvd's or that like to BABYSIT us. I was raised by my foster Mom who was almost 60 when I was born. I assure you backtalk or disrespect was not tolerated. I am not sure if anyone else has had to make that long walk to "get me a switch" but trust me it is not fun. Today parents want to make excuses for everything instead of looking in the mirror first.

I live in England fair enough but..i think things are far different now to when we was kids and i think thats the problem. When i was a kid i knew if i played up i could get smacked - however kids nowadays know if there parents hit them they can done so its not a threat. Also when i was a child kids who played up were sent to the headmaster and got caned. This generally stopped the kid reoffending but nowadays of course they cant do that and the kids know they can do as they like in school. Likewise when i was young the local Bobby could clip a kids ear..now he would lose his job.

Its ok to say smacking a child is wrong but then you think of the way the kids are now behaving knowing there is no real punishment except banning them from going on there pc etc and i cant help but wonder..was it so wrong after all how it used to be when you think how much more respect kids would have in those days and be afraid they would get slapped if they did wrong?

 

[Csquare]

Yes I do. I also feel they are going for the insanity defense.
As far as scamming go, I can't tell you how many women these inmates were "in love with". They take them for their money and leave them.
I feel for your friend. I hope he has wised up. The prison system can chew up these youngsters and make them even more hardend.

 

[Animal04216]

continue here:

Found Deceased MO-Elizabeth Olten, 9, St. Martins Thread #6 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community