MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #8

[LadyRider]

Good Evening All, Regarding the weather, October was one of the wettest months in MO history, it rained just about every day or every other day. We only had 1-4 dry days the whole month. Very depressing cause no sun, every day was overcast. I watched my DH bury our 15 year old 3 lb Chihuahua last Friday evening. It took some effort and time; he was covered in mud from his knees down, his shoes were so caked and heavy he could hardly walk in them. He is a big man too. It probably took him 20 mins, maybe, it seemed forever.

Hoppy, so sorry about your DD's friend, I know it is hard for her right now. I'm sure you gave her some big hugs, but don't stop, keep hugging her and telling her you love her.

 

[Imjen]

Your poor niece!!
I have a former client who was diagnosed at 17 with Borderline also-- and she certainly fit many signs before then! Sounds like your niece was having many of the same problems she was! I feel for your family-- it's like being on a roller coaster!!

It is strongly encouraged not to diagnose personality disorders (there are 11 IIRC) until age 18-- when, allegedly, personality is pretty much established. (I don't think it really is until much later, but I understand what the APA is trying to do there)... There certainly are some who fit the criteria earlier, but PD is a very significant disorder category- and usually assumed to be lifelong. So they encourage extreme caution in assigning the diagnosis.

15 would be really young for AB to have a firm diagnosis-- although I would certainly suspect that there is a provider out there who has said something about her behaviors being similar to that... and she may have been diagnosed already- IDK. A lot of teen girls (especially ones with abuse in their history) do meet some criteria of PD at very young ages

As someone who works with teens I am really, really interested in this case!! I think there is much to learn from AB--- I wish we could prevent anything like this tragedy from ever, ever happening again

AnnieOakley,
I really appreciate your posts, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience!

 

[Jules71]

Haha I found a great little Xanga blog RP had back in 2006. He apparently was not very popular, and gave his phonenumber out on the internet so he didn't have to sit home alone saturday nights anymore.

...not that I can make fun of that at this point. *looks at calendar*

If you have RPs facebook, the username at the top (www.facebook.com/______) is his username on a bunch of other sites. Fantastic.

Shoot, I am too late. It says its been shut down by its owner.

 

[Kateyes]

Hoppy please accept my condolences also on the death of your dd's classmates.

There would be plenty of things to help conceal a grave in the woods that would make it very hard to detect or even see the ground had been disturbed.
Just wondering if AB was tasked with keeping an eye on the 6yo and EO was over there often playing therefore having to watch them both. AB dug 2 graves, one for each girl, so she would no longer be responsible for watching them.
I am still convinced AB also had RAD. As I have said before a RAD child is very sneaky, coniving, and also sweet and innocent.

If AB had planned to kill both Elizabeth and her younger sister the two graves do make sense. A possible scenario for why her sister was spared:
As they were walking into the woods her sister was upset because she wasn't supposed to go there - maybe she started to get upset and AB thought it would be better to let her go back to the house so her absence wouldn't cause attention, and also so she could get on to her planned murder without interruption . So AB tells her little sister she should go on home, and that she will walk EO back to the house from a shortcut in the woods. That explanation will most likely allay any doubts from the 6 year old's mind, and give AB the time she needed. Purely speculation on my part.

 

[Jules71]

If AB had planned to kill both Elizabeth and her younger sister the two graves do make sense. A possible scenario for why her sister was spared:
As they were walking into the woods her sister was upset because she wasn't supposed to go there - maybe she started to get upset and AB thought it would be better to let her go back to the house so her absence wouldn't cause attention, and also so she could get on to her planned murder without interruption . So AB tells her little sister she should go on home, and that she will walk EO back to the house from a shortcut in the woods. That explanation will most likely allay any doubts from the 6 year old's mind, and give AB the time she needed. Purely speculation on my part.

One question I have if AB did in fact walk lil sis back toward the house - what was E doing then? Had AB already done something to E? Did the lil sis witness anything? God, I hope not! And if LE did talk to lil sis that night because she was one of the last to see E, what did she say? And we still don't really know for sure if AB was questioned that first night or not.

 

[Jules71]

It could be that at the time AB walked lil sis back toward the house - E was also heading home, and then once lil sis was gone, AB "called" E back.

 

[MDATCA]

Shoot, I am too late. It says its been shut down by its owner.

Does it seem that everytime we mention something it is blocked/shutdown soon afterwards. RSomeILConeP is checking in and monitoring what we say and reacts accordingly.

 

[Jules71]

Does it seem that everytime we mention something it is blocked/shutdown soon afterwards. RSomeILConeP is checking in and monitoring what we say and reacts accordingly.

I think so!!

 

[lawlady84]

Does it seem that everytime we mention something it is blocked/shutdown soon afterwards. RSomeILConeP is checking in and monitoring what we say and reacts accordingly.

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!

When I found his Xanga I also found his LiveJournal - which was under a different username, but mentioned the username from Xanga. Also mentioned many "familiar" people so that I am sure its him. He was writing until this summer (2009).

However, it was very personal and very sad, so I didn't mention anything. I read all of it, and I really feel bad for him. But that's GONE too now- says deleted. He is 100% reading, he wouldn't know we found this stuff just based on google- I never wrote the username here.

[I really, really, really hope he was ILC because if not I feel like I know way too much about a random stranger.]

But lesson to ALL: make sure all of your online diaries are friends-only or somehow private!! I google my real name and email address constantly to make sure nothing I wouldn't want the world to know comes up!

 

[MoEquineFan]

<giggle about your googling>

I actually don't know about a central location where there is a list of WS acronyms, but here are a few I can recall:

TOS= terms of service
LE=law enforcement
LEO=law enforcement officer
=piece of chit
SO=sex offender
RSO=registered sex offender
FB=facebook
MS=myspace

and then the typical

tia=thanks in advance
hth=hope this helps
iirc=if I recall correctly
iow=in other words
OP=other poster

Someone else (thank you) already mentioned the DD, DS, and DH. THen you can go beyond that to DSIL, DMIL, etc for other relatives.

If I think of more, I'll post them.

Hoppy

Thanks a bunch Hoppy!! :woohoo:

 

[Kimster]

I google my names all the time too! LOL! So don't EVEN try it.

Armed and Dangerous!!!

ETA: There are a trillion "kimsters" on Google, BTW. So far, none that I've seen are me!

 

[MoEquineFan]

Does it seem that everytime we mention something it is blocked/shutdown soon afterwards. RSomeILConeP is checking in and monitoring what we say and reacts accordingly.

Absolutely! It is too coincidental that all of his sites to go private or shut down shortly after we mention them.

 

[mistivon]

You'll see these alot here:

IMO - In my opinion
IMHO - In my humble opinion
FWIW - For what it's worth
ETA - edited to add
BTW - by the way
POI - person of interest
IDK - I don't know

 

[Capri]

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!

When I found his Xanga I also found his LiveJournal - which was under a different username, but mentioned the username from Xanga. Also mentioned many "familiar" people so that I am sure its him. He was writing until this summer (2009).

However, it was very personal and very sad, so I didn't mention anything. I read all of it, and I really feel bad for him. But that's GONE too now- says deleted. He is 100% reading, he wouldn't know we found this stuff just based on google- I never wrote the username here.

[I really, really, really hope he was ILC because if not I feel like I know way too much about a random stranger.]

But lesson to ALL: make sure all of your online diaries are friends-only or somehow private!! I google my real name and email address constantly to make sure nothing I wouldn't want the world to know comes up!

Without giving out major details, why was it so sad? Just girl problems, or something?

 

[akashana]

AnnieOakley,
I really appreciate your posts, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience!

This is OT, but I just wanted to tell you how sorry I am that you lost your chihuahua. I buried one of mine this summer, and my big mixed breed died of heartworms last month also. I still have 4 other dogs, but still am grieving the two I lost.

ETA

I quoted the wrong post! I meant to address it to LadyRider.

 

[hoppyfrog]

I google my real name and email address constantly to make sure nothing I wouldn't want the world to know comes up!

So you have that much to hide, eh?

Hoppy

 

[hoppyfrog]

This is OT, but I just wanted to tell you how sorry I am that you lost your chihuahua. I buried one of mine this summer, and my big mixed breed died of heartworms last month also. I still have 4 other dogs, but still am grieving the two I lost.

ETA

I quoted the wrong post! I meant to address it to LadyRider.

So sorry for your loss. Dogs are the best, or so says my 10 y.o. black lab.

Hoppy

 

[Gray]

I don't think the grave would take long to fill in if there was a pile of dirt on the side.

Another question I have is why didn't the ground look disturbed when they searched? I would think you could easily see a freshly filled-in grave?

I honestly think that the grave rumors are just that - rumors. Why couldn't she have tossed her in an old well or something like that?

Although I guess maybe if it was muddy and she tossed leaves and branches over it, it would be less noticeable. Maybe. I wish I could see pics of where E was found to see what the terrain was like.

 

[nursebeeme]

quick thought about the "two graves" ..... (have been thinking about it tonight a lot)

is it possible that this knowledge came from the note? and that the note was possibly written by AB's sibbling? I know that thought/rumor had been tossed around before.. that a sibbling had written a letter to LE.

I was sitting around wondering how two pre dug graves would ever be floating around as a rumor and it hit me... what if a sibbling knew about the digging in the previous weeks. It made sense to me as a possible theory fwiw...

 

[MoEquineFan]

2 things I've been trying to find out if anyone can help....

1) info on AB's bio Mom. I know her last known address... but the house is now for sale and appears empty. I guess the reason for curiosity is I've been wondering what AB's early years were like.

2) An exact location of where EO was found. I guess there was a map on a local news channel, but it's not on their website.

CC - A map was shown on Nancy Grace Oct 27. Here's a link to the video on You Tube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v__BuXJRPLs&feature=related"]YouTube- Nancy 10/27/09 Elizabeth Olten Part 4

Start watching around 1:30 and be ready to pause at 1:38 - it does not show the location "directly behind" AB's house like someone posted here, more like 1/2 way between the two homes. Who knows though...