MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #3

[Simply Southern]

Do we have any idea why they would go room to room with flashlights and not turn on the lights? Seems weird. Would it be to not touch anything?

Moo...
I ask my retired LE, long term neighbor that very same question.
He stated, the first officers on scene, initially will not turn on lights, someone hiding w a gun, preserve the scene, if a potential lab, could trigger explosion, many, many reasons. Once the house is cleared-safe, usually the detectives have arrived by this time and they revisit each area more thoroughly, with lights on documenting, taking evidence, fingerprints, DNA and video.
Crime scene investigation is a lengthy process.
All my opinion

 

[MeAndYouOutThere]

I can't say I know what an "addict" looks like, but when I look at the picture of the three men who died, IMO I don't think they look very healthy at all--particularly for such comparatively young men:

View attachment 479928

Over the years I've found (purely anecdotally) that markers such as bags around the eyes are a pretty good predictor of heart disease. I wouldn't be at all surprised if all three men are found to have had clogged arteries and high blood pressure, despite their age.

Sadly, a history of alcohol and/or drug abuse would increase the likelihood of heart disease. And heart disease would, I believe, also increase the risk of death by hypothermia.

The odds of the 3 guys dying at the same time of anything is null.....besides a car crash plane crash or gun shooting....

 

[WildcatRunner]

DBM

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

The odds of the 3 guys dying at the same time of anything is null.....besides a car crash plane crash or gun shooting....

I'm not suggesting all three simultaneously had a heart attack.

I'm saying if they already had an underlying health condition such as heart disease, the chance of dying from drinking too much, or taking drugs, or even sitting outside in the cold, would be increased.

 

[Sundog]

So, did the meeting at the house between the families and the DA happen yet? If so, what came of it? Any press conferences yet?

From reporting upthread based on the MSM articles posted, it sounds like the parents of each of the victims met with the prosecutor at his office.

 

[branmuffin]

Water intoxication. Good point.

Any aluminum cans wouldn't have been set out for pickup yet, even if they were in the recycle bin. I looked up trash and recycling for KCMO, and collection day for the area is Thursday (trash and recycling is all the same day).



View attachment 479920

What is that saying? You don't buy beer, you only rent it. So we know that someone brought 60 beers into the home. We don't know if that beer was brought by JW, AL or the 3 deceased. Since the 3 deceased and AL arrived after dark, I presume for neighbours to see the arrival of the beer, it was JW. Beer is it's own promoter; the more you drink, the more you pee, the more you pee the more dehydrated you get, the more dehydrated the more beer you drink. I know I wouldn't want to clean that bathroom adjacent to the family room after that night. So how many of the attendees chose to use the outdoors as a latrine? Maybe all of them at any given time. We know from numerous threads on WS that many men, too many to count, have died of exposure outside after being extremely inebriated. Is this what happened here? Did these guys drink so much that a trip outdoors to relieve themselves was partially responsible for their deaths. Alcohol and drugs can be a deadly combination in themselves. Depending on whether the drugs are depressants or stimulants, different physical symptoms occur. We can only wait for the tox results to find the answers.

 

[Data Sleuth]

Not certain if this has been already mentioned:
In the 48 hours after the football watch get together perhaps JW was recovering with a hangover, indeed he may ventured downstairs but only during the dusk to dawn period (bright sun, etc. not good for a headache).
He certainly could have glanced out some of his windows but in the darkness (almost 12 hours of it in early January) he didn’t see anything unusual. Even less of a chance if the light over the sink or kitchen was on, making it more difficult to see outside in the dark due to reflection in the windows.
Since he may of been in and out of his sleep pattern over that period of time he actually would only have a 50/50 chance of seeing anything unusual outside as a result of the extended darkness in Winter.
All of this is my conjecture and opinion only.

 

[10ofRods]

The odds of the 3 guys dying at the same time of anything is null.....besides a car crash plane crash or gun shooting....

Or being outdoors in the wrong situations. I know our minds often go to drugs in cases like this. See the link below regarding how hyperthermia and alcohol related deaths have been rising for as long as records have been kept (not always at the same rate, but generally rising). In 2001, there were just under 600 such deaths. Overall hypothermia deaths (preliminary data) in 2023 were over 1300 (with just over 50% of those involving alcohol. The age distribution (shown below) has been changing. Alcohol use was noted in more than 75% of hypothermia deaths among males in MO (and with only 20% of hypothermia deaths among females). The age distribution of the alcohol related deaths in MO was not the same as overall hypothermia deaths. Here's the graph:

https://health.mo.gov/living/healthcondiseases/hypothermia/pdf/hypo4.pdf (MO data only)

Hypothermia-Related Deaths --- United States, 2003. (contains data for all 50 states)

The graph below shows Missouri hypothermia deaths by age over a long period:

https://health.mo.gov/living/healthcondiseases/hypothermia/pdf/hypo3.pdf

20 years ago, the last column (the oldest people) would have been higher. There are more deaths in the 30's and 40's (mostly all male) and slightly fewer in the over 80 group. Deaths among babies, children, teens and 20-somethings tend to be lower than 100 years ago.

In Missouri, hypothermia deaths are far more likely to happen in December and January:

https://health.mo.gov/living/healthcondiseases/hypothermia/pdf/hypo2.pdf

So statistically, the three men are in an age group with great incidence of alcohol (or other substance) related hypothermia as the CoD.

I believe this will be ruled accidental. MO gives the public access to autopsy reports under most conditions (but not if it's a criminal investigation).

IMO.

 

[Forest_Wood]

There are a couple of things I think can be relevant in situations like this. One is the survivors of a tragedy get to provide the narrative. The second is, that narrative, depending on the situation, can be formulated to protect the survivor(s). Case in point: in 1972 a plane crashed into the Andes, killing the flight crew and about 15 passengers instantaneously. Several more died after the crash from injuries and personal hardships. The personal hardships were extreme cold and lack of food. Many of the survivors resorted to cannibalism to survive. But a social code was created. They would not eat people who were family members or team members. That code didn't last long. After 3 months went by they realized that their only hope was for some of them to try to get to civilization for help. Two of them did and miraculously were found. The narrative at the time was they all survived by eating cheese and chocolates and whatever food had been on board but when a trained Relief Corp member took photos of a human leg that had flesh removed, the narrative changed. People were horrified, but eventually they came to the conclusion that it was a miracle and they were lauded as heroes. Anyone interested in reading more about this, an excellent source is Alive! by Piers Paul Read.

So how does that relate to this situation? There are two survivors, yet both have completely different narratives. One says yes, he was there but he left at midnight and everyone was alive. Of those that could challenge that narrative, three are dead and one is alive. The alternative narrative is that the three deceased left and that person went to bed. What criteria do you use to find the truth? The one narrative of a man who stayed in his house for two days with three dead friends in the back yard who, when LE knocked on his door let them in, went to the station without an attorney present and allowed a team of investigators to search his home or the narrative of a man who didn't volunteer his attendance at the party before he hired a criminal attorney?

If time of death indicates they died closer to midnight when 5th guy says he left, it makes it more likely he was aware his friends had died. MOO

 

[MeAndYouOutThere]

If time of death indicates they died closer to midnight when 5th guy says he left, it makes it more likely he was aware his friends had died. MOO

Hmmm....let's wait for the toxicology report first....it's only the beginning of this case

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Trends in Missouri match what the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration describes as a “nationwide overdose epidemic” fueled by the spread of fentanyl.

The drug has a place in reducing suffering when its use is deliberate and controlled. Diluted to thousandths of a milligram and administered by medical professionals, fentanyl can relieve pain in half the time it takes morphine and without its unpleasant side effects.

However, it takes merely one grain of salt’s worth of fentanyl to cross into a fatal dose.

Fentanyl epidemic is getting worse in Missouri with record numbers of overdoses • Missouri Independent

Trends in Missouri match what the DEA describes as a “nationwide overdose epidemic” fueled by the spread of fentanyl.

missouriindependent.com

“It’s grabbing hold of our children now,” said Frank Tennant, chief of Missouri’s State Technical Assistance Team, a specialized law enforcement agency that investigates crimes against children and is under the Department of Social Services. “Fentanyl scares me, and not a lot scares me.

“It’s straight from hell as far as I’m concerned.”

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article279793604.html

 

[Chimera]

The odds of the 3 guys dying at the same time of anything is null.....besides a car crash plane crash or gun shooting....

Well for starters I don't think it was hypothermia.
Not totally impossible but doubtful, imo.
This is why this case has garnered so much attention, besides it being unusual for all three to succumb in one night ?
Omo.

 

[happyday]

Sorry for the misunderstanding!! I was actually leaning more towards none of them being addicts! Occasional partiers that got into some laced coke or weed.

Absolutely addiction doesn’t discriminate!

I wanted to clarify that the point of my original post was in my opinion these are your average middle class hardworking group of friends (JW included) that unfortunately got some bad stuff. It wasn’t to debate what an addict looks like. AT ALL.

It’s usually the ones that occasionally use that end up OD’ing because they don’t have a tolerance and it sends their body into shock. Or ones who are relapsing for the same reasons.

Let’s move on before the thread gets closed.

I thought your post was totally clear FWIW!

 

[Chimera]

There are a couple of things I think can be relevant in situations like this. One is the survivors of a tragedy get to provide the narrative. The second is, that narrative, depending on the situation, can be formulated to protect the survivor(s). Case in point: in 1972 a plane crashed into the Andes, killing the flight crew and about 15 passengers instantaneously. Several more died after the crash from injuries and personal hardships. The personal hardships were extreme cold and lack of food. Many of the survivors resorted to cannibalism to survive. But a social code was created. They would not eat people who were family members or team members. That code didn't last long. After 3 months went by they realized that their only hope was for some of them to try to get to civilization for help. Two of them did and miraculously were found. The narrative at the time was they all survived by eating cheese and chocolates and whatever food had been on board but when a trained Relief Corp member took photos of a human leg that had flesh removed, the narrative changed. People were horrified, but eventually they came to the conclusion that it was a miracle and they were lauded as heroes. Anyone interested in reading more about this, an excellent source is Alive! by Piers Paul Read.

So how does that relate to this situation? There are two survivors, yet both have completely different narratives. One says yes, he was there but he left at midnight and everyone was alive. Of those that could challenge that narrative, three are dead and one is alive. The alternative narrative is that the three deceased left and that person went to bed. What criteria do you use to find the truth? The one narrative of a man who stayed in his house for two days with three dead friends in the back yard who, when LE knocked on his door let them in, went to the station without an attorney present and allowed a team of investigators to search his home or the narrative of a man who didn't volunteer his attendance at the party before he hired a criminal attorney?

That puts it all in a different perspective !
Good post, btw.
Omo.

 

[Curiousobserver]

Or being outdoors in the wrong situations. I know our minds often go to drugs in cases like this. See the link below regarding how hyperthermia and alcohol related deaths have been rising for as long as records have been kept (not always at the same rate, but generally rising). In 2001, there were just under 600 such deaths. Overall hypothermia deaths (preliminary data) in 2023 were over 1300 (with just over 50% of those involving alcohol. The age distribution (shown below) has been changing. Alcohol use was noted in more than 75% of hypothermia deaths among males in MO (and with only 20% of hypothermia deaths among females). The age distribution of the alcohol related deaths in MO was not the same as overall hypothermia deaths. Here's the graph:

https://health.mo.gov/living/healthcondiseases/hypothermia/pdf/hypo4.pdf (MO data only)

Hypothermia-Related Deaths --- United States, 2003. (contains data for all 50 states)

The graph below shows Missouri hypothermia deaths by age over a long period:

https://health.mo.gov/living/healthcondiseases/hypothermia/pdf/hypo3.pdf

20 years ago, the last column (the oldest people) would have been higher. There are more deaths in the 30's and 40's (mostly all male) and slightly fewer in the over 80 group. Deaths among babies, children, teens and 20-somethings tend to be lower than 100 years ago.

In Missouri, hypothermia deaths are far more likely to happen in December and January:

https://health.mo.gov/living/healthcondiseases/hypothermia/pdf/hypo2.pdf

So statistically, the three men are in an age group with great incidence of alcohol (or other substance) related hypothermia as the CoD.

I believe this will be ruled accidental. MO gives the public access to autopsy reports under most conditions (but not if it's a criminal investigation).

IMO.

All that needed to happen was for the three of them to go into the backyard just a little too drunk. Maybe they tossed around a football and fell asleep/passed out in the snow and the cold finished them off.

It doesn't have to be complicated and it happens every weekend all across the country.

 

[MeAndYouOutThere]

All that needed to happen was for the three of them to go in backyard just a little too drunk. Maybe they tossed around a football and fell asleep/passed out in the snow and the cold finished them off.

It doesn't have to be complicated and it happens every weekend all across the country.

It would have been noisy...3 guys in their mid 30's playing football drunk at midnight.....no that did not happen in my opinion

 

[10ofRods]

Not certain if this has been already mentioned:
In the 48 hours after the football watch get together perhaps JW was recovering with a hangover, indeed he may ventured downstairs but only during the dusk to dawn period (bright sun, etc. not good for a headache).
He certainly could have glanced out some of his windows but in the darkness (almost 12 hours of it in early January) he didn’t see anything unusual. Even less of a chance if the light over the sink or kitchen was on, making it more difficult to see outside in the dark due to reflection in the windows.
Since he may of been in and out of his sleep pattern over that period of time he actually would only have a 50/50 chance of seeing anything unusual outside as a result of the extended darkness in Winter.
All of this is my conjecture and opinion only.

In early January in Kansas City, they get only about 9.75 hours of daylight. Definitely could be a factor to consider.

Sunrise on the 8th was at around 7:48. Sunset was at 5:15.

You're right about the kitchen lights (we leave a small light on 24/7 and it's right over the sink - can't see anything outsid once it's dark here. This whole case has got me planning tiny experiments in my lines of sight and use of kitchen window!

Very good speculation there, @Data Sleuth

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

No way was it just booze.

 

[mickey2942]

Not that anyone needs anecdotal stories, but I worked at a lot of ski resorts, with a lot of people who drank copious amounts of alcohol and did numerous drugs. No one ever died at a party, crashing drunk was common, but not three people at once, outside. Usually someone was sober enough to drag anyone else inside. And, in general, extreme cold has a way of sobering people up...

And if the homeowner went to bed before everyone left, the door was probably unlocked. So...they could have been able to get back in and crash out on the sofa.

Something else happened here, otherwise you would hear about this all of the time...

 

[Chimera]

All that needed to happen was for the three of them to go into the backyard just a little too drunk. Maybe they tossed around a football and fell asleep/passed out in the snow and the cold finished them off.

It doesn't have to be complicated and it happens every weekend all across the country.

Bbm.
It does ?
Imo it's highly unusual for three men to die in this manner.

Although without the toxicology tests or autopsy reports being released we still have no idea what actually occurred for them to die, and are waiting.
Sorry in particular for their grieving loved ones , they're suffering the most !
Omo.