GUILTY MO - Hailey Owens, 10, Springfield, 18 Feb 2014 #2

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So sorry, Hailey. RIP, sweetie.

:rose:

OT: My kids wanted to play outside yesterday. We live in an apartment complex but it's fairly safe, and they play outside often. But, I was thinking about our upcoming move to a house, which will mean kids wanting to walk to friends' homes, etc - and our 6-yr-old daughter who will talk to anyone. (Our son is older).

So, I told them about Hailey. Not the gruesome and horrific details - just the gist of what happened: talked to a man who asked for directions, and he took her. My son asked if she was found, and if she had been found alive. I said 'yes' and 'no'.

I then said, "I'm not trying to scare you, but -"
And my 6-yr-old said, "Well, you've scared ME to death. I don't want to play outside anymore."
My son said, "Yeah, same for me."

:(

(I did have a talk with them about safety and not talking to strangers, especially ones who pull up in cars. I explained that most people in this world are kind, but there are a few who are not. So you just need to be safe when out playing.)
 
hollye said:
I have been out of touch for a couple of days and am trying to catch up.

Is there still a belief that this is not his first crime of this kind? Here is the map that I had done last week of areas of note with regard to Hailey, as well as possibly connected crimes.

https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=218199748434644937742.0004f2b8b65d8788f1c66&msa=0

There was an article this morning that I read about Stephanie Mahaney, but it appears that someone is in prison for his crimes against her.

http://www.kspr.com/news/local/Hail...hares-child-abduction-story/21051620_24654026

http://www.kspr.com/news/local/hail...field-child-abduction-story/21051620_24653904
Click to expand...

Wow, Hollye, thank you.

I see Kara Kopetskty on there...interesting.
 
belimom said:
So sorry, Hailey. RIP, sweetie.

:rose:

OT: My kids wanted to play outside yesterday. We live in an apartment complex but it's fairly safe, and they play outside often. But, I was thinking about our upcoming move to a house, which will mean kids wanting to walk to friends' homes, etc - and our 6-yr-old daughter who will talk to anyone. (Our son is older).

So, I told them about Hailey. Not the gruesome and horrific details - just the gist of what happened: talked to a man who asked for directions, and he took her. My son asked if she was found, and if she had been found alive. I said 'yes' and 'no'.

I then said, "I'm not trying to scare you, but -"
And my 6-yr-old said, "Well, you've scared ME to death. I don't want to play outside anymore."
My son said, "Yeah, same for me."

:(

(I did have a talk with them about safety and not talking to strangers, especially ones who pull up in cars. I explained that most people in this world are kind, but there are a few who are not. So you just need to be safe when out playing.)
Click to expand...

Ugh, I soooo know how these conversations go. I had to have such conversations with my students during Jessica's Ridgeway's case. You don't want to scare them silly, but you want them to understand certain things for safety reasons.
 
It is hard because the reality is they cannot keep themselves safe. I mean, if someone is prepared to be so brazen they could snatch them out of your hand also, they only have to out pace you to the car. When I speak to my daughter about this, I also let her know that it is not her fault if something is to happen to her, that there are methods and approaches to help keep her safe and I really hope she remembers them but ultimately if she doesn't or they don't work, it is not her fault. I would hate in the very unlikely incident she was in this situation that her last thoughts were that she didn't do something right. I also hope that'd have a ripple effect to any other victim situation that is far more likely like sexual assault from a known person ... the line between victim blaming and what we can do to minimise risk is often blurry so I want her to know now that even if you make a choice which in retrospect seems unwise (a lift from a co-worker you feel a bit iffy about, too much to drink, and so on) that she won't be held responsible for someone elses immoral actions.

To that end I show her the Carlie Brucia video and the Dr Phil clips of kids being approached in houses and how to drop to the ground and scream and run etc. I also tell her that while she is on the street, a neighbour glancing up and saying hi is friendly in a reasonable way, but she is to be rude and ignore anyone trying to ask her a question or engage her in conversation and ride off quickly. And to fight like the dickens to not be put in a car or taken to another location, that it is better to die where you stand if threatened. Really sucks to have those conversations.
 
One thing I don't understand is, about the hats. According to the "probable cause" statement it states that CMW was wearing the hat described by the witnesses.

http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2...0B78.So.81.pdf

But later in the items recovered at the crime scene, they seemed to have "added" a hat at the end of the list. Just me? JMO
 
jggordo said:
One thing I don't understand is, about the hats. According to the "probable cause" statement it states that CMW was wearing the hat described by the witnesses.

http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2...0B78.So.81.pdf

But later in the items recovered at the crime scene, they seemed to have "added" a hat at the end of the list. Just me? JMO
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New to forum, just jumping in here and throwing out guesses.

Not knowing much about search warrants and the like, I'm assuming the hat he wore when apprehended would not be listed on the search warrant as being in the house.

I don't know how many probable cause statements there are, I believe I have read two written by different officers. One of those states that CMW was wearing a "baseball style hat" when he pulled up in the driveway. Perhaps it was no longer the maroon baseball hat the witnesses saw (simply put on a different hat as he left), and the maroon hat on the search warrant is the original hat worn during the abduction.

OR, another thought, is that there was one article (not sure where...but it has been linked within this thread) that stated the police found one of Hailey's hats in his home. Since she was not reported as wearing a hat when abducted, I assumed the reporter just made that assumption when seeing the hat listed on the search warrant, and reported it thus. But, perhaps there really was a maroon hat that belonged to Hailey in the home. If so, this would tend to indicate that he had watched her before. Even if he never made contact, perhaps he took a hat she left lying around somewhere.

My guess is that this is one of CMW's hats. I would suppose it is very possible that he had multiple maroon hats...school color, maybe, and the officers just wanted to cover all bases.

All just my opinion and speculation, of course.
 
02/24/2014 Judge Assigned
CASE ASSIGNED TO JUDGE BROWN. SENT TO COURT FOR REVIEW /MNM
Filed By: JASON R BROWN

Order for Change of Judge
DEFT'S APPLICATION FOR CHANGE OF JUDGE GRANTED. JUDGE DAN IMHOF/TRANSMITTED TO CLERK'S OFFICE FOR FURTHER PROCESSING. TDT

Hearing/Trial Cancelled
Scheduled For: 04/07/2014; 10:00 AM ; DAN IMHOF; Greene

Hearing/Trial Cancelled
Scheduled For: 03/19/2014; 9:00 AM ; DAN IMHOF; Greene

According to courts.mo.gov/casenet CMW got a new judge yesterday. Wonder what's up with that?
 
I went to school with the murderer in this case and I have known the entire family of Hailey. We are all from the same small town.

I wasn't friends with CW but there never was anything about him that was strange. He was outgoing and friendly - as opposite personality as you would think of someone capable of this horrible crime.

I do know several of his good friends and they are all very smart, successful men. One is even a lawyer. They all say that there was never any signs. They are all in shock, disbelieve and want the worst punishment possible for him. I think they wish they could think of anything that would have lead them to believe this could've happened. It is scary that you can be so close to someone like that and not know.

IMO they only people that might have seen something that friends wouldn't would be past girlfriends or his parents. I feel sorry for his parents if they didn't know he was a monster but I have to wonder if they thought something wasn't right with him. Most parents don't support a 45 yr old son (their name on the house and he drives a truck they own) unless they know there are some mental or physical problems. I would also like to know what former girlfriends might say about him.

The same school he worked at had a male teacher fired a few years ago for texting a young student in a sexual nature. Makes me wonder if this is a coincidence or if the two of them knew about each other's sick thoughts.
 
truth searcher said:
I went to school with the murderer in this case and I have known the entire family of Hailey. We are all from the same small town.

I wasn't friends with CW but there never was anything about him that was strange. He was outgoing and friendly - as opposite personality as you would think of someone capable of this horrible crime.

I do know several of his good friends and they are all very smart, successful men. One is even a lawyer. They all say that there was never any signs. They are all in shock, disbelieve and want the worst punishment possible for him. I think they wish they could think of anything that would have lead them to believe this could've happened. It is scary that you can be so close to someone like that and not know.

IMO they only people that might have seen something that friends wouldn't would be past girlfriends or his parents. I feel sorry for his parents if they didn't know he was a monster but I have to wonder if they thought something wasn't right with him. Most parents don't support a 45 yr old son (their name on the house and he drives a truck they own) unless they know there are some mental or physical problems. I would also like to know what former girlfriends might say about him.

The same school he worked at had a male teacher fired a few years ago for texting a young student in a sexual nature. Makes me wonder if this is a coincidence or if the two of them knew about each other's sick thoughts.
Click to expand...

Welcome to websleuths Truth Searcher your post is appreciated. It must have been a terrible shock when you found out that he did this. Often you think perpetrators of a crime like this are loners, cold and calculating with no care for others but obviously this perp was very good at fooling people about what he was really like. Very sadly there are more like him out there interacting with children carefree when they are really thinking about evil things to do to them it is very frightening.
 
truth searcher said:
I went to school with the murderer in this case and I have known the entire family of Hailey. We are all from the same small town.

I wasn't friends with CW but there never was anything about him that was strange. He was outgoing and friendly - as opposite personality as you would think of someone capable of this horrible crime.

I do know several of his good friends and they are all very smart, successful men. One is even a lawyer. They all say that there was never any signs. They are all in shock, disbelieve and want the worst punishment possible for him. I think they wish they could think of anything that would have lead them to believe this could've happened. It is scary that you can be so close to someone like that and not know.

IMO they only people that might have seen something that friends wouldn't would be past girlfriends or his parents. I feel sorry for his parents if they didn't know he was a monster but I have to wonder if they thought something wasn't right with him. Most parents don't support a 45 yr old son (their name on the house and he drives a truck they own) unless they know there are some mental or physical problems. I would also like to know what former girlfriends might say about him.

The same school he worked at had a male teacher fired a few years ago for texting a young student in a sexual nature. Makes me wonder if this is a coincidence or if the two of them knew about each other's sick thoughts.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the discussion! No words for how sorry I am for their family and your community. She was a beautiful, precious little angel.

I would be surprised if any ex-girlfriends came out of the woodwork. I seriously doubt women had any real role in his life, or fit into his fantasy world.
 
truth searcher said:
I went to school with the murderer in this case and I have known the entire family of Hailey. We are all from the same small town.

I wasn't friends with CW but there never was anything about him that was strange. He was outgoing and friendly - as opposite personality as you would think of someone capable of this horrible crime.

I do know several of his good friends and they are all very smart, successful men. One is even a lawyer. They all say that there was never any signs. They are all in shock, disbelieve and want the worst punishment possible for him. I think they wish they could think of anything that would have lead them to believe this could've happened. It is scary that you can be so close to someone like that and not know.

IMO they only people that might have seen something that friends wouldn't would be past girlfriends or his parents. I feel sorry for his parents if they didn't know he was a monster but I have to wonder if they thought something wasn't right with him. Most parents don't support a 45 yr old son (their name on the house and he drives a truck they own) unless they know there are some mental or physical problems. I would also like to know what former girlfriends might say about him.

The same school he worked at had a male teacher fired a few years ago for texting a young student in a sexual nature. Makes me wonder if this is a coincidence or if the two of them knew about each other's sick thoughts.
Click to expand...

Welcome to Websleuths truth searcher. Thank you so much for joining and giving us your take from a local perspective who knows some of the people in this case. I so appreciate it when locals can give us the tone, the flavor, the feet on the ground viewpoint on a case. You say you all come from the same small town so I am assuming you mean the town prior to Springfield, where the kidnap murder occurred.

There have been residents of Springfield who stated in articles that they are likewise shocked and never saw a sign. I do wonder as you mention though about everything (house, truck, etc) being titled to the trust or the parents rather than Woo himself. It does cause one to wonder if there was some reason for that besides a financial or tax benefit. It is an unusual circumstance in my experience.

I think if the trust document comes out or if the public defender issue becomes a contested adjudicated item we will have a better idea of what is going on with all that.

Can I say, the community and surrounding area have really been impressive in their efforts to come together for vigils, memorials, fundraisers, etc.

It is really heartening to see a community surround Hailey's family with love and concern. I am sure they are so thankful for all the support at this monstrous time.

I look forward to reading more of your thoughts on this case as the days unfold.
 
I believe we are possibly reading too much into CMW's financial situation. I don't believe it has one bit of bearing as to a possible motive or ingredient to this horrible tragedy. Based in a $17K gross income, he probably could qualify to buy a little red wagon on credit, as the only source of income for the house hold. But really it has absolutely no bearing on this case, IMO. He didn't do what he did about money.

The Deed to my home has a family members name on it also. It's so that if anything happens to me, it won't have to Probated. Simple as that. Nothing sinister. And trust me they never loaned or gave me a dime.
 
Welcome Truth Searcher and Sunkist!

I've been reading up on the unsolved case, the Missing 3 Women from Springfield (June 7, 1992)...and just now read that the graduation ceremony for Kickapoo High the night of June 6 was at Hammons Center--which is at MSU....which is also where the suspect in this case, Craig Wood, was attending college at the time (he graduated Dec. 1992). Could CW have attended one of the two parties the girls did (the 2nd party was south of MSU, in the 1500 block of East Hanover Street), and perhaps followed them home? The girls left that party about 2 AM, and made a quick stop at friend Janelle's house enroute to Suzie's home at 1717 E. Delmar. Which was where they disappeared from, along with Suzie's mother, sometime between the hours of 2:30 and 8 AM. Their bodies have never been found.

Map:




Several of us have wondered how a 45-yr old man could have suddenly just snapped, going from 'normal' to violent abduction, attack, and murder of a 10 yr old girl. Like many of you, I find it hard to believe there wasn't another life in the shadows for years before this, leading up to this. And, typically, RSOs sloppier and closer to home with each successive victim.

If it's possible that this was not CW's first offense, I wonder if it's also possible that the Springfield 3 were his first (if he wasn't just a pedophile, but a more generalized RSO)...and that he has hidden other victims successfully in the last two decades. I wonder if police are checking into that idea. CW started college at MSU in 1986, partied excessively, then was out for a spell getting treatment for substance abuse. He returned to finish his degree in 1992, graduating in Dec. 1992. The Springfield Missing 3 prime suspect (Robert Cox) had also just been paroled from Florida (conviction for rape/strangulation of 19 yr old overturned by FL Supreme Court), and returned home to Springfield in 1992, working the Delmar neighborhood marking underground utilities. Might they have met up, somehow, perhaps in a rehab program of some sort? From prison in Texas, Cox claims to know (without implicating himself) that the girls are dead and buried "just outside of Springfield." Many seem to think they are possibly buried below the Cox Hospital parking garage that was under construction at the time (also nearby).
 
I've no proof but IMHOO I have no doubt that this creep kidnapped, raped and murdered a child before.

Pedophiles -from what I understand- don't begin acting on their impulses at 45 ish.
 
jggordo said:
I believe we are possibly reading too much into CMW's financial situation. I don't believe it has one bit of bearing as to a possible motive or ingredient to this horrible tragedy. Based in a $17K gross income, he probably could qualify to buy a little red wagon on credit, as the only source of income for the house hold. But really it has absolutely no bearing on this case, IMO. He didn't do what he did about money.

The Deed to my home has a family members name on it also. It's so that if anything happens to me, it won't have to Probated. Simple as that. Nothing sinister. And trust me they never loaned or gave me a dime.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Close family friends recently made a trust for their adult children to avoid probate. Nothing else.
 
jggordo said:
I believe we are possibly reading too much into CMW's financial situation. I don't believe it has one bit of bearing as to a possible motive or ingredient to this horrible tragedy. Based in a $17K gross income, he probably could qualify to buy a little red wagon on credit, as the only source of income for the house hold. But really it has absolutely no bearing on this case, IMO. He didn't do what he did about money.



The Deed to my home has a family members name on it also. It's so that if anything happens to me, it won't have to Probated. Simple as that. Nothing sinister. And trust me they never loaned or gave me a dime.
Click to expand...


I think his trust may be a "special needs" trust.


With a special needs trust...nothing in his name and a part time job all makes sense.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_needs_trust

I just wanted to add that a special needs trust could have been set up when he was very young. Basically it means he would never be in control of that money.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Linda7NJ said:
I think his trust may be a "special needs" trust.


With a special needs trust...nothing in his name and a part time job all makes sense.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_needs_trust

I just wanted to add that a special needs trust could have been set up when he was very young. Basically it means he would never be in control of that money.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I'm thinking it's more likely that it's just a family trust (he also has a younger brother who would be part of that). They have acreage, and it would protect the family farm.

Also, while we might wonder about his state of mind (to commit this sort of crime), he wasn't/isn't mentally disabled, which is what that special needs trust is about. By all accounts he was intelligent, graduated college (eventually), and was able to hold down a full-time job plus coaching for 16 years.
 
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