Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #6

[TedMac]

What do others think about leaving the bodies so visible rather than hiding or burying them? Had the person(s) that murdered these two had them buried, and with nobody coming forward to claim them, these two would very literally have disappeared with no one looking for or missing them.

Do you think the killer was confident nobody would trace these two back to them, would it have been a warning to leave them so visible where they would be found right away as opposed to putting them in an empty field or somewhere where they wouldn't be found until they decomposed or were they in witness protection and wanted them to be found? Thankfully we at least have pictures of them, I wonder if the killer knew these two didn't have anybody looking for them, so didn't bother covering their tracks more.

What are some thoughts on being so casual with them as opposed to tucking them away in hopes of them never being discovered or not until sufficient time had passed to make ID and evidence minimal? Does that speak to a possibility of what the killers relationship to the victims or am I grasping at straws?

I remember another case where a woman and 3 children were found in oil drums and found decades apart, or Caledonia Jane who was left in a field, or the McStays found in an unmarked grave in the desert, here our Does were just left for anybody to drive by and see them. I don't know if there is any psychological reasoning behind that, since they could easily have been spotted executing them on a public road instead of taking them behind some closed business and doing it there. It's almost as if they picked up a hitchhiker and he or she pulled a gun on them and had them exit and decided it was safer to kill them then risk themselves being caught. Maybe they mentioned it was just the two of them and the killer thought that with them gone, nobody would report the vehicle stolen?

Just curious what others think, if it's common in crimes like this to not make more of an attempt to cover things up, and since they weren't discovered for several hours, if the killer knew that or not that the road wouldn't be used much at that hour so that was good as anywhere else and that whether or not pictures of the two could be taken, no evidence on them existed to ID them and nobody would ever be able to recognize them, as if they were tourists from outside the country and in that time it would be next to impossible if they were "backpacking" through the country that anyone would come across the Does since they could be anywhere and there are a lot of unsolved and unidentified murders especially difficult for their family if they didn't speak English in addition to being outside the country.

BBM There are a lot of things unknown about this case, starting with the identity of the victims. One poplar theory has the victims as being John McMinn and his wife. They were reported lost at sea in the Pacific not long before the two bodies were found in SC. If the dead bodies are the McMinns, that would explain why family members haven't reported them as missing (believing they were drowned in the Pacific). Some feel that the McMinns were caught by Federal Authorities with drugs in the Pacific and were working undercover when they were murdered in SC. Others also feel that the victims were the McMinns and they faked their deaths to become involved in the drug trade on their own.

The motive of the killings is unknown and whether the killer or killers even knew who they were is also a mystery. This may have been a drug deal that went bad and the killer/killers simply ripped them off.

The killer may have known that the victims would never be identified or they simply may have wanted to make a quick getaway and left them where they where they were found. The killer also may have not cared whether the victims would be identified or not.

You questioned whether the couple may have been backpacking across the U.S., but the coroner indicated that the female had smooth feet which would probably indicate that she was not a hiker. Plus, the shoes she was wearing were not hiking shoes.

Also, the McMinn's DNA was submitted back in 2012. Hopefully, we will get some answers soon.

 

[ravenwitch]

Maybe, I'm remembering wrong but aren't the NC couple quite a bit younger? I know that isn't always accurate but they hadn't been dead long. Other than that, I think they look a lot like the Mcminns.

 

[TedMac]

Maybe, I'm remembering wrong but aren't the NC couple quite a bit younger? I know that isn't always accurate but they hadn't been dead long. Other than that, I think they look a lot like the Mcminns.[/QUOTE]

BBM They do look a lot alike. Jane Doe even has the mole on the left side of her face just like Cordelia McMinn.

 

[Tear Drop]

Maybe, I'm remembering wrong but aren't the NC couple quite a bit younger? I know that isn't always accurate but they hadn't been dead long. Other than that, I think they look a lot like the Mcminns.[/QUOTE]

BBM They do look a lot alike. Jane Doe even has the mole on the left side of her face just like Cordelia McMinn.

This is a picture of Michael McMinn at the age of 18 and a picture of the John Doe. I found this comparison very interesting. Look at how closely the teeth match.

 

[TedMac]

View attachment 62269

View attachment 62270

This is a picture of Michael McMinn at the age of 18 and a picture of the John Doe. I found this comparison very interesting. Look at how closely the teeth match.

Tear Drop: I know you have followed this case very closely. Do you know exactly when the McMinn's DNA was submitted for the comparisons with UIDs? I was thinking it was 2012, but now I am not sure that is correct. I would think 2+ years would be more than enough time.

 

[carbuff]

Tear Drop: I know you have followed this case very closely. Do you know exactly when the McMinn's DNA was submitted for the comparisons with UIDs? I was thinking it was 2012, but now I am not sure that is correct. I would think 2+ years would be more than enough time.

You would think, but there was an ID made in MA recently where they'd been waiting almost 3 years for the results. It was a low-profile case where the victim was known to be dead and the killer was already in jail; finding the remains only confirmed what was already known. So it was probably at the bottom of the queue. But on the other hand, there were no jurisdictional issues involved --- in the case of the SC couple, I can see how the DNA might have been processed but the information is taking forever to wind through multiple levels of paperwork.

 

[Roselvr]

Tear Drop: I know you have followed this case very closely. Do you know exactly when the McMinn's DNA was submitted for the comparisons with UIDs? I was thinking it was 2012, but now I am not sure that is correct. I would think 2+ years would be more than enough time.

We do not know if it was requested to be compared to Mystery Couple. AS far as I know; MC are either hidden from public in NamUs or not there. VA doesn't list many cases from what I see

I posted 03-17-2013, 08:40 AM #558

Wonder what's going on with John's DNA.

Cordelia McMinn - DNA Status: Samples submitted - Tests not complete
John McMinn - DNA Status: Initial inquiry underway

Then 08-04-2013, 12:50 PM #575

John McMinn - DNA Status: Sample submitted - Tests complete
Cordelia McMinn - DNA Status: Sample submitted - Tests complete

 

[carbuff]

They could be in CODIS without being in Namus -- but it seems that VA, like MA, doesn't automatically upload to CODIS either.

 

[Tear Drop]

Tear Drop: I know you have followed this case very closely. Do you know exactly when the McMinn's DNA was submitted for the comparisons with UIDs? I was thinking it was 2012, but now I am not sure that is correct. I would think 2+ years would be more than enough time.

I wish I could explain why it is taking so long for the results of the McMinn comparison to come back. The results of the Yakimchuk comparison from 2009 has yet to be announced either. The biggest problem it that there is no evidence that the bones of the mystery Sumter couple have even been processed. The bones have been sent to North Texas University, but that is all we know as of now. Obviously, in order to make a comparison, the bones would have to be processed first.

The other possibility is that the bones have been processed and the comparisons have been made and for whatever reason the results are being withheld from the public. My gut tells me that the truth is being intentionally withheld and justice has been intentionally thwarted. My suggestion to the enquiring minds out there is to call the authorities to ask what that status is.

 

[hideoustroll]

This girl looks so much like Rebecca Doisy to me. She even has the two moles like Rebecca but they're on the wrong side. Huge coincidence that this couple was found four days after Rebecca disappeared, a time when Johnny Wright, Rebecca's killer, was unaccounted for.

 

[Swamp Fox Trot]

I wish I could explain why it is taking so long for the results of the McMinn comparison to come back. The results of the Yakimchuk comparison from 2009 has yet to be announced either. The biggest problem it that there is no evidence that the bones of the mystery Sumter couple have even been processed. The bones have been sent to North Texas University, but that is all we know as of now. Obviously, in order to make a comparison, the bones would have to be processed first.

The other possibility is that the bones have been processed and the comparisons have been made and for whatever reason the results are being withheld from the public. My gut tells me that the truth is being intentionally withheld and justice has been intentionally thwarted. My suggestion to the enquiring minds out there is to call the authorities to ask what that status is.

A blogger has reported the sheriff's office told her Mystery Couple DNA is in and the results indicate they were not siblings and not of European descent, which would seem to rule out the McMinns. We (you & I & ex-coroner Verna Moore) agree that law enforcement has been covering this up for 35+ years. Now, why would they do that?

 

[TedMac]

A blogger has reported the sheriff's office told her Mystery Couple DNA is in and the results indicate they were not siblings and not of European descent, which would seem to rule out the McMinns. We (you & I & ex-coroner Verna Moore) agree that law enforcement has been covering this up for 35+ years. Now, why would they do that?

BBM Good question. I'm not much for conspiracy theories, so I'm not certain I agree there is a big LE cover-up. It may very well be that this case is simply not a priority and has been put on the back burner-the very far back burner.

It has also been rumored that the McMinns were actually caught with drugs by Federal authorities and agreed to work undercover as some sort of plea deal. Please remember that they were reported "lost at sea" not long before the mystery couple in SC were murdered. It was suggested they were killed by a drug dealer either ripping them off or after their cover was was some how blown and LE is denying any involvement. But, there is no way to substantiate this even if it is true.

If the mystery couple's id is ever disclosed and they are the McMinns, it is more likely they faked their deaths and were running drugs for profit.

MOO

 

[dotr]

They were shot "Execution Style". I doubt a farmer who kill like that.

Should have put quote marks around " fruit " " farms " and " farmers"...

 

[Bubblyone]

I always come back to this thread...Just thinking out loud again. Someone definitely knows something. Somewhere these two people left their belongings, i.e. clothing, toothbrush, purse, hygiene products, etc. Seems like someone would have come upon these types of items, realized their friends or family was missing and called the popo. You are not hitchhiking across the country wearing the clothing this woman was. Yes, I know, I hitchhiked back in those days a few times myself. Definitely not planning on walking for a long period of time wearing wedge espadrille shoes!

Am I correct in reading that McMinn dna is in and Mystery couple dna is in but no announcement?

Something is way "fishing" about this from the beginning of the gun and Lonnie Henry...call me cynical but I say "Lucy got some splainin to do"

 

[carbuff]

They were shot "Execution Style". I doubt a farmer who kill like that.

I don't think "farmer" and "drug dealer" are mutually exclusive categories.

 

[justthinkin]

Oddly, I just saw this the other day: you know what's sometimes said about conspiracy theories? The only ones who don't believe in them are the conspirators.
I wouldn't necessarily agree with that, but I do see the point.


A couple of years ago, I emailed back and forth with one of Michael McMinn's family members, and neither of us believe the mystery couple are the missing McMinns. I've seen several photos of the McMinns. Cordelia had no moles on her face.

If a person is aware of the original sketches that first appeared in the local newspaper and which preceded the distribution of any of the photographs of the mystery couple, and aware of all the photos and sketches distributed, some obfuscation can't be taken off the table. We have photos and sketches with differing hair textures, differing forehead heights, differing ages, differing mole locations, differing thickness of eye lashes, etc. Then some sketch artist came along and made them look foreign, and maybe someone even found someone to state Jocque Doe was from Canada, the guy at the HOA campground. Was he just lying to seem important or was he put up to it? Did he have any more involvement in this case or any at all?

This couple was first described in the Sumter paper as looking like the all American boy and girl. Even that statement may allude to later possible obfuscation of their true ages. Long ago, someone should have tried to get the FBI involved in this case. I believe the girl was a minor, and not an adult female. It's not too late. I tried, but failed. I know some here have extensive files on this case which would emphasize your credibility with an outside agency. Please, please put them to good use, and make someone listen to you.

The US attorney's office for the district of South Carolina could also be contacted since they handle public corruption if any exists here. I'm not saying it does, but there are many red flags with this case that give one pause, imho.

 

[William-90]

Given the general trajectory of their journey from the Northwest (or West) to the Southeast, has anyone thought that Jock Doe, if he's the son of a prominent Canadian doctor, came from British Columbia or Alberta? There are seventeen medical schools in Canada - sixteen that were established before 1976. There's only one in British Columbia (University of British Columbia, Vancouver) and two in Alberta (Cumming School of Medicine, Calgary, and the University of Alberta's Faculty of Medicine, Edmonton).

If he'd attended, or was attending, the medical school in the University of British Columbia shortly before his journey and death - presuming that he hadn't already graduated by the time of his journey, he had attended a medical school at all, and that the school was in Canada, not America - he could have easily taken, if he wanted to, a ship or boat from Vancouver to Portland, Oregon (or perhaps Seattle, Washington), and then hired a car, which could explain the Oregon or Washington license plate the repairman thought he saw on the car whose owners matched the victims' descriptions.

One would imagine that he gave up on a career in medicine within the same year, or in the winter period of the year before. Wandering around aimlessly is generally something people do impulsively, to 'cool off', isn't it? And I would have thought that a 'cooling off' happens shortly after a stressful event, rather than a long time hence.

 

[Roselvr]

I wish I could explain why it is taking so long for the results of the McMinn comparison to come back. The results of the Yakimchuk comparison from 2009 has yet to be announced either. The biggest problem it that there is no evidence that the bones of the mystery Sumter couple have even been processed. The bones have been sent to North Texas University, but that is all we know as of now. Obviously, in order to make a comparison, the bones would have to be processed first.

The other possibility is that the bones have been processed and the comparisons have been made and for whatever reason the results are being withheld from the public. My gut tells me that the truth is being intentionally withheld and justice has been intentionally thwarted. My suggestion to the enquiring minds out there is to call the authorities to ask what that status is.

Sumter County SC Sheriff's Office - John & Jane Doe (1976) Wednesday, April 6, 2011 at 8:49PM

Unidentified Persons

On August 9, 1976, the bodies of an unidentified white mail and white female were discovered on a dirt road 1/2 mile from Interstate 95 and Highway 341 in Northeast Sumter County. Both victims were shot multiple times.

The only potential identifiers found at the scene was a ring worn by the male that had the initials “JPF” inscribed. The ring was described as being of a Far Eastern design.

Over the years, the fingerprints of both subjects have been periodically resubmitted to the FBI database to see if any new information may have been entered somewhere that may help solve their identities. In 2007, the bodies were exhumed by a team of our forensic investigators, then Coroner Verna Moore, agents from the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division (SLED) and forensic pathologists from Newberry Pathology to get samples to be submitted into the state, national and international DNA databases.

 

[Swamp Fox Trot]

Local law enforcement has zero motivation to "solve" this ~ they've known whodunit all along. The only reason this case is in the public eye is because of the ex-coroner raising a fuss.

 

[Roselvr]

Sumter County SC Sheriff's Office - John & Jane Doe (1976) Wednesday, April 6, 2011 at 8:49PM

Unidentified Persons

On August 9, 1976, the bodies of an unidentified white mail and white female were discovered on a dirt road 1/2 mile from Interstate 95 and Highway 341 in Northeast Sumter County. Both victims were shot multiple times.

The only potential identifiers found at the scene was a ring worn by the male that had the initials “JPF” inscribed. The ring was described as being of a Far Eastern design.

Over the years, the fingerprints of both subjects have been periodically resubmitted to the FBI database to see if any new information may have been entered somewhere that may help solve their identities. In 2007, the bodies were exhumed by a team of our forensic investigators, then Coroner Verna Moore, agents from the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division (SLED) and forensic pathologists from Newberry Pathology to get samples to be submitted into the state, national and international DNA databases.

So, according to what I pasted in, you would think they're in NamUs, just hidden